I understand the DPOY history but Moncrief is a wild stanhood as a springboard for 2 Top 10ers being overrated
Larry Bird finished ahead of Magic Johnson in MVP voting the first 7 years of their careers(and 8 of the first 9)
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
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DetroitEWarren
Veteran
You mean flair nikka lol. Are you talking about D Wade nikka? Wade vs Whoooo. Ric Flair fukker. Pimp slap a nikka off the top rope. Whoooo. bytch.
My bad breh this wasn't directed at you
. Shut the fukk up 
GreatestLaker
#FirePelinka
I've been recently watching games from the 80's. Bird was noticeably a better player than Magic. Much more dynamic of a scorer, better defender and was also an elite playmaker.
murksiderock
Superstar
So my dad is from Little Rock, where Sid is a legend (and quiet as kept Little Rock produces a solid amount of elite star athletes from Sid to Derek Fisher and Iso Joe, to Darren McFadden to Jermain Taylor; Jerry Jones is also from Little Rock)...I understand the DPOY history but Moncrief is a wild stanhood as a springboard for 2 Top 10ers being overrated
I also lived here briefly as a kid, spent more time there in my 20s. There's a pretty rich sports history there that you wouldn't assume because Little Rock is a really off the radar place. Nobody goes there unless you from there or otherwise have ties; The Clinton's also lived there for years when Bill was a legislator and governor and they kept a home there into the 00s, not sure if they still keep one there though...
Anyway, my dad is 8 years younger than Moncrief so he grew up idolizing him. I've never gone back to watch it, but to this day he'll tell you Sid and Arkansas were robbed in the '79 Elite Eight when they lost to Bird and the Sycamores. Says that was the beginning of "The Great White Hope", says Sid outplayed Bird and The Hogs outplayed Indiana State, but got robbed by the refs...
His beef with Magic stems from the '79 Draft, when Magic went #1 to LA and Moncrief went #5 to Milwaukee. Pops swears that Sid was a better college player than Magic, and that Arkansas woulda beat Michigan State if they weren't robbed in the Elite Eight. Magic got the push as "the black guy" opposite The Great White Hype, when Moncrief was actually a better player coming out...
He thinks had Arkansas played in the National Championship, Sid goes #1, ends up on the Lakers, and the entire trajectory of his pro career changes, we're talking about Sid as an All-Timer, so this is kinda where his hate for the Lakers starts too. Pops is a huge believer in, where you get drafted has a huge impact on how your career winds up. Moncrief turned shyt to sugar with Bucks teams that weren't good enough around him, he never got a Worthy or Kareem, he never had a Boston All-Star team around him, and Pops is convinced Magic has 0 championships if he instead ends up in Milwaukee and Sid in LA...
Pops was born in '65 and has hated Bird, Magic, and the Lakers and Celtics since '79
he was also a Dr J Stan from ABA on, and the fact Dr J had his wars with the Lakers and Celtics, made him hate those teams and those guys even more...He believes all this shyt til this day, we were talking about Moncrief maybe less than 2 years ago. Pops believes Moncrief was robbed of having an All-Time career, he tells anyone this
...As for Bird and Magic, he gives them their props as two of the greats, but says the push those two got is only surpassed by the push Mike got, and he doesn't think either of their careers play put the same elsewhere and without The Push...
On Mike, my dad has always said Mike has an argument as the greatest player ever, but he doesnt think he's THE greatest player ever. For one there are few people left who saw Dr J in his prime/peak, and Pops says its a coin flip, The Doctor was that good, but because he played in an inferior league and was losing to Super Teams when he came to the NBA, we recognize Erving as an All-Timer but not in the conversation for THE greatest player ever...
Pops saw Mike and The Heels in person in '84, when Arkansas upset #1 Carolina. The game was moved from Barton Coliseum in Little Rock, to Pine Bluff, and The Heels held their practice on either game day or the day before, at Central High in Little Rock. They got scalped tickets to the game and he says the city went nuts when they beat The Heels...
He watched Mike's whole career from college to the very end, and has always said Mike got fortunate breaks in his career (and you can see by how he feels on things I mentioned earlier he's a huge believer in where you play and who you play with). My dad is a Jordan fan, never disliked him the way he disliked Magic and Bird, but he's always disliked the push that sold everyone that Mike is THE greatest. In addition to Dr J, my dad also thinks Kobe is right there with Mike, as well as LeBron, and while he doesn't believe there's just one GOAT, he hates people who talk about how much better Mike is than guys he says we're right there with him...
He has always felt Mike was better than overrated Magic and Bird though
Pops was a Coli nikka before Coli nikkas were even alive 
That's possible, but that '84-85 team, whenever I watch games from that year, Magic was really the guy on the team. They may have made it official the next year, but he already had taking the reins and earned it the year before.
This, and I don't know why nikkas don't like to acknowledge it, or act like it's heresy to believe it or even entertain the idea. Bird was as good as, or even better than Magic in just about every facet of basketball while being on a worse team.
cartierhoe
Veteran
Only attribute you can comfortably give Magic over Bird is passing. And even then Bird himself was a super underrated passer/playmaker.
Yeah.
It's not even hating on Magic either. He's still easily a legend, Top 5 player.
But Bird's injuries plus the ECF is the main reason why the Celtics fell off earlier. The west was trash. Moses Malone left the Rockets after 81... and then Sampson got hurt and the other players were suspended from the league after 86... both of those Rockets teams beat the Lakers
I wouldn't even say that that's comfortable. Magic was unquestionably better in transition as a passer, but in the half court, I think it's even.
Ball handling and slashing/finishing at the rim. Rebounding is debatable.
viktordoomsecretwars
Superstar
That's why Magic outplayed him in both finals in 1985 and 1987?
Magic was a better and more consistent player than Bird was over the course of their careers.
Bird did not even become a great playoff player till 1984, when he was 28 years old. He let some player most people don't even know win outplay him in the finals and win Finals MVP
Magic won the finals MVP as a rookie . Let that sink in.
Magic from 1980-1985 was very underrated. His shot was just a bit underdeveloped and he was very unselfish.
In the 1985 finals, he set the record for highest APG in any playoff series of any length.
Magic could easily have won finals MVP in 1988 as well and finished his career with 5 finals MVPs
Erratic415
Superstar
Yeah.
It's not even hating on Magic either. He's still easily a legend, Top 5 player.
But Bird's injuries plus the ECF is the main reason why the Celtics fell off earlier. The west was trash. Moses Malone left the Rockets after 81... and then Sampson got hurt and the other players were suspended from the league after 86... both of those Rockets teams beat the Lakers
Kevin McHale’s injuries didn’t help either. He broke a bone in his foot during the 86-87 season and played with it anyway.
Even though Kareem won FMVP in 85’ and played great, Magic seemed to me like the most valuable Laker, at least when I ended up watching those finals games. He controlled so much of that fast paced and efficient offense. Kareem could have won FMVP in 80’ (he apparently did win the votes at first) and Magic could have won in 85’.
