LeBron averaged 31/7/7 at 21. Surprised he peaked that soon in terms of scoring?

Dr. Narcisse

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Thread inspired @Swagnificent
I liked Bron in high school and his first couple of years in the league (2003-2006). In 2007 he started getting too bulky. I didn't like him after he started going into the bulldozing mode LeBron. 2009 he leaned out some and enjoyed what I believe was his best season.
I enjoy players who play in a stylistically appealing manner. Bron's peak in that regard was very early in his career (high school to 2006).
:wow:


Three seasons into his career, however, the abnormal is the norm for the 21-year-old coronated as King James. He already ranks among the league's premier talents,capable of 40-10-10 games (two and counting) and holder of myriad "youngest ever" designations: to score 50 in a game, to score 6,000 in a career, to be named All-Star Game MVP. And he may well add another at the end of the season--MVP. Not since Michael Jordan in 1991-92 has a player averaged 30 points, six rebounds and six assists in a season, as James was doing at week's end (31.4 points on 48.0% shooting, 7.0 boards, 6.6 assists) in leading his injury-riddled team to the fourth-best record in the East. This weekend the Cavs will make their first playoff appearance since 1998, when Ferry and Shawn Kemp anchored their frontcourt.
His voice and cadence sound eerily like Jordan's: clipped, definitive, rising at the end to signal a finality of discussion. Like Jordan, James also peppers his speech with references to his endorsers (or knocks on the competition) that are nearly too perfect, as if written by an ad exec. Before a game he was told that Sacramento Kings forward Francisco Garcia had sprained his ankle in trying to retrieve a ball stuck next to the rim. James's response: "Oh, no. Oh, wow.That's not good at all." (Pause for comic effect, smile.) "It was probably those Reeboks he had on." (Cue media laughter.)

So complete is his offensive game that when a scout is asked for James's weaknesses, he has to think for a moment. "O.K., now I'm really nitpicking," he finally answers. "But he could be a better dribbler with his left hand."

In fact, one of the issues the Cavs' coaches have is that James is too good for practice."We can't create a matchup that challenges him," says Egan. "We can double him, but we can only do that for so long because we have to run our own stuff." Flummoxed, Brown turned earlier this season to Johnny Bach, a Bulls assistant during the Jordan years. Bach recommended putting James on the reserve team during practice, as Chicago used to do to challenge His Airness."At first, I don't think he understood what we were doing," says Brown."Then, since he's so competitive, he'd get into it." And who wins those practice scrimmages? Brown nods. "Usually LeBron's team.
https://vault.si.com/vault/2006/04/24/lebron-act-ii


So anyone surprised LeBron didnt become more of a dominant scorer. We all know he became a much better player just seemed like he was more focused on scoring early on. Obviously still one of the great scorers of all time, but I do remember back then people were thinking he might average 35 one day :ohhh:


sidenote:
"It's also important to me to make the team I'm on now the best. I don't want to go ring-chasing, as I call it; you know, going to a team that's already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them
Ethered his future self...moreso Texas forward KD :troll:
 

Illeye buckmatic

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I always looked at him as a MJ/Magic hybrid. He doesn't have that MJ/Kobe scoring mentality. Making plays for others is a huge part of what he is. Doesn't surprise me when he passes up clutch shots to make the right play:manny: There's more than one way to be a great player:obama:
 
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Dr. Narcisse

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Bored so looked up old Skip Bayless thoughts from that year :yeshrug:

Turns out he was consistent :ehh:
LeBron has a long way to go
By Skip Bayless
In the end, it was all about 23.
LeBron James

The Pistons barely left LeBron room to breathe in the second half of Game 7.
That's how many points No. 23's Cleveland Cavaliers scored in Sunday's second half. And that was mostly LeBron James' fault.
But of course, Sunday's end was more about Friday night. That's when LeBron's team led by three with 3:15 left -- at home. That Game 6 door should have been slammed on the Detroit Pistons, whose throats were tightening like the rim their shots kept bouncing off.
That was almost all LeBron's fault.

I know, I know, I know: The kid is just 21.
But LeBron worshippers cannot have it both ways. You cannot tell me he's better than Michael Jordan was at this stage -- some of you contend at any stage -- then defend him when he fails because he's barely legal.
I think we'd agree that he's the oldest looking (and playing) 21-year-old NBA player we've ever seen. So old, physically and mentally and facially, that we sometimes find ourselves wondering if somewhere along the way, somebody lost track of his age.
I mean, look at pictures of Jordan and Magic and Bird at the age of 21 and you'll laugh at how skinny and baby faced they look.
LeBron? No, this "kid" is a man now, and he must be treated as such.
Off with the kid gloves. No more premature myth making. LeBron James has the size, strength, skill and instincts to be an all-time great player -- more Magic than Michael. But he isn't yet.

Let's be honest: He isn't even close.
When it really counted in Games 6 and 7 against a very good, but not great Pistons team, LeBron was a colossal disappointment. At around 6-foot-8 and 250 pounds, he came up small. He shrank under the pressure.
He still has a long way to go as a leader, a shooter and a clutch scorer. Beating the psychologically fragile Gilbert Arenas and the Washington Wizards was one thing, closing out the Pistons quite another. This postseason was a start, but only that.

If he's really serious about becoming a great player, he'll hire a shooting coach and shoot 1,000 jumpers a day through the offseason. Michael and Magic taught themselves to be very good shooters in their third or fourth pro seasons. Yes, LeBron improved dramatically from last season -- but he still has a long, long way to Michael or Magic.
That leaning-tower jumper of his, with that awkward-looking release point anywhere from above his left to above his right ear, is terribly inconsistent, especially under pressure. Sometimes, he wills in 3-pointers on pure emotion. But mostly, he's just another streak shooter -- more cold than hot.

When dared to shoot outside by a triple-teaming defense collapsing into the paint, LeBron has no pure stroke to rely on. If that develops, look out, legends. But right now LeBron is still pretty much an overhyped creation of video games and "SportsCenter" dunks. More Michael Vick than Michael Jordan.

Right now, he's a little more NFL than NBA. Near the end of the season, the kid who didn't know his own strength began to discover and embrace it. In clutch situations -- in which he had missed too many jumpers -- he began to realize that the surer way to slam the door was by becoming "LeBrawn."

Down the lane he came with locomotive force, sometimes using his off arm as a shiver, powering through one, two, even three defenders and getting cleanly to the glass or rim for a dunk or an ambidextrous trick shot. LeBron is sensationally skilled around the basket -- some Steve Nash reinforced with Baby Shaq. LeBron can be overpowering, which can jar the psyches of opposing shooters while inspiring other confidence-challenged Cavaliers.

LeBron's teammates are often thinking, "We've got No. 23 and they don't."
That was the case for much of Game 6 and the first half of Game 7. As the Cavs were cutting Sunday's early 13-point deficit to two at the half, an ABC mike caught Damon Jones in a timeout huddle reminding his teammates about "force and power."
Translation: "You keep powering to the rack, LeBron, and good things will keep happening."
Game 6, obviously, was the one the Cavs had to win if they were going to finish off one of the most amazing upsets in playoff history. But in Friday night's fourth quarter, LeBron's most glaring early-career deficiency had to open the eyes of the blindest LeBron worshipper.
He committed four turnovers in a nail-biter of a fourth quarter. Why does LeBron bite his nails during fourth-quarter timeouts? Because he's scared. Nothing to be ashamed of -- he's human, after all.
But he's going to have to teach himself to channel that fear into fourth-quarter fury. Magic and Michael did. They made their names in these situations, and so far, LeBron's name (and age) are all that save him from late-game criticism.
The truth is, he's choking.

He also failed to call time on the final possession to set up a potential overtime-forcing 3-point shot.
And I remain unconvinced that his gift for passing the basketball is matched by a gift for taking over in the clutch. Magic and Michael displayed that rare intangible in college. Obviously, LeBron could still be in college.
But will he mature into a great clutch player? Maybe. Maybe not.
Yes, two of those late Game 6 turnovers came when Chauncey Billups and Lindsey Hunter made sly blind-side steals. But he must learn to be more careful with the ball. He must prevail as much with skill and court sense as raw power. He must figure out how to create better clutch shots -- or to create them for teammates.

I know: The Pistons survived Game 6 by retrieving four lucky-bounce offensive rebounds in the final three minutes.
And I know: LeBron's teammates stunk in Game 7. Jones, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall and Flip Murray combined to shoot 4-for-25, including 1-for-8 on 3s.

But LeBron's team was down only two points at the half and lost 79-61. LeBron: 21 points in the first half, six in the second. That happened in part because Detroit coach Flip Saunders -- yes, finally give him credit for making defensive adjustments -- threw some new wrinkles at LeBron in the third quarter. The Pistons began by trapping him just past half court and making him give up the ball.
And the Cavs looked lost.
LeBron's fault.
If he's going to play point/shooting guard, he should have run straight to the teammate he passed to out of the trap, as Nash does, and get the ball back and run the offense. Or, if he's comfortable letting Hughes run the point, as Hughes did for a successful first-half stretch, then fine, let him know that and start posting up Tayshaun Prince.
Whatever, take over. Direct traffic. Lead. Make teammates believe that if three Pistons collapse on you, you will get them good shots they will make.

LeBron looked lost, too.
He kept forcing up second-half shots and didn't make one until the game was out of hand, with 4:42 left in the fourth quarter. He wound up 1-for-9 in the second half -- with zero assists.
That is unacceptable for a player who (somehow) made first team All-NBA and finished second in MVP voting.
Yes, rookie coach Mike Brown also looked lost late in the third quarter, when he failed to call a timeout as Detroit broke it open with a 10-2 run sparked by Hunter's offense and defense. But Brown did try to take pressure off LeBron after the game by saying, "He logged a lot of minutes and he just ran out of gas."

When LeBron was asked if that had been the case, he gave a terse "no" and stared at uncomfortable questioners for a few long seconds without elaborating.
Hmmm. Now we see what LeBron really is made of. He can sign a five-year, $75 million extension with Cleveland this summer, and he recently indicated he's leaning in that direction.
He said: "I'm happy with what's going on right now. I love my teammates and the coaching staff."
But he added: "We'll see what happens."
Now we will.
Yes, he could use a more proven scorer to take some pressure off him. But will LeBron's advisers and posse convince him the failures in Games 6 and 7 were solely the fault of his teammates and coach?
Or will he continue to become a man -- a real star -- by accepting most of the blame?
espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060522&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos2
 

Dr. Narcisse

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I always looked at him as a MJ/Magic hybrid. He doesn't have that MJ/Kobe scoring mentality. Making plays for others is a huge part of what he is. Doesn't surprise me when he passes up clutch shots to make the right play:many: There's more than one way to be a great player:obama:
See I thought that when he entered the league as well. However, by that year he really did seem more of a scorer. Like that was where he was going with his career.
 

Dr. Narcisse

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Played 43 minutes a game that season. That's the main reason why. He's been pretty consistent in his scoring since.
True..
But again this was when the "MJ hype" was really high. Seemed like a lot of people thought he'd start scoring in the 30s/winning scoring titles around that time.
 

Black_Panther_JS

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He started joining creating superteams with some of the best scorers in the league so he wasn't taking as many shots

Bron's combination of height, athleticism, speed and strength is unparalleled, most players won't be able to guard him driving to the lane so i'm almost certain he could've scored more if he didn't have 2 other great scorers to share the ball with
 

Consumed

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Surprised he was so good so early, yeah. But he got much better later on as he developed an in between game (restricted area finishing, post, mid range) and became a confident three point shooter. Maybe the raw volume doesn't reflect that but his consistency sure does.

I'd say he's a top three scorer all time.
 

Dr. Narcisse

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Found another Skip article.
Somebody should tweet this to him:pachaha::mjlit:
LeBron's closer to MJ than Kobe
By Skip Bayless
Page 2
OK, so merely broaching this subject is unfair.
As one NBA scout, who's black, said Sunday when asked to compare LeBron James and Kobe Bryant with Michael Jordan: "They're both black. That's about it."

Kobe Bryant
Would MJ act like this?

Then again, LeBron chose to wear No. 23, Jordan's old number -- or at least Nike scripted it and LeBron didn't refuse. And next season, Kobe will wear No. 24, his first high school number -- although, knowing Kobe, you have to believe he privately loves that it's one more than 23.
LeBron and Kobe have both made it pretty clear they think they could one day be at least as good as Jordan. So fair is fair: Which one now has the best chance?

Sweet Baby James, at 21, just took a baby step ahead of Kobe, who at 27, just took a giant step backward.
Let's start with Kobe.
Of course, he led the league in scoring and began to lead his teammates on and off the court. He began to win back the media and fans by effectively turning off the 24-hour security system that made him so famously unknown pre-Eagle and letting the outside world glimpse the post-trial Kobe, who can poke a little fun at himself and see the bigger picture and come off as a pretty-human father of two, even after scoring 81 points in one game.

Kobe is a little purer and better outside shooter than Jordan was. Kobe is a much more fluid, picture-perfect shooter than LeBron -- although LeBron has taught himself to be a better shooter at 21 than Jordan was after three seasons at North Carolina. Nothing too pretty about Jordan's or LeBron's jumpers -- LeBron's can look almost awkward. But no more so than, say, Arnold Palmer's swing or putting stroke looked. Like LeBron and Jordan, Arnie just made the ball go in the hole.
Kobe is much closer to Jordan in athletic explosion and gymnastic body control. LeBron's game is more raw power than grace, and compared with Jordan or Kobe, LeBron comes off as a little stiff and robotic. But LeBron is already a little better rebounder and shot-blocker than Jordan was -- and much more of an inside presence than Kobe can be.
Still, Kobe shames LeBron as a man-to-man defender. Kobe is in Jordan's league as a high-energy, lockdown, will-killing perimeter defender -- which was why it was so puzzling during the Phoenix series that Kobe didn't demand to guard Steve Nash and keep him from forcing so many switching mismatches off pick-and-rolls.


But in the first four games of that series, Kobe displayed a new Jordanesque maturity and command. Obviously, the Lakers' only hope against the Suns was for Kobe to take over in a new way -- to effectively play point guard and slow the tempo and get the ball inside when the Lakers had size mismatches and to take and make tough shots at the end of shot clocks … and games.
For four games, Kobe Bryant was right there with Michael Jordan, and it was a sight to behold. Kobe's Lakers -- "we're a team now" -- won three by forcing the Suns to play in the 90s -- 99-93, 99-92, 99-98.
But after Kobe out-Jordaned Jordan in Game 4, hitting "Mission: Impossible" shots to send the game into overtime, then win it at the buzzer, Kobe appeared to decide he was now greater than Jordan.
Well, greater than the pre-championship Jordan who thought he could win even if his teammates were mostly watching.
Michael Jordan, 1984
Michael Jordan had to go through growing pains before he became a champion.
Even the immature Jordan, playing with these Lakers, would not have allowed his team to blow a 3-1 lead to these Suns. Don't blame Kobe's
teammates, who as a group are no worse than Nash's. Blame their "leader." Blame Kobe.
Kobe let Raja Bell get under his too-thin skin. Kobe's instincts were right: Who the heck is Raja Bell? But instead of ignoring him, he traded insults with him like two children in the school yard. For Kobe Bryant, this was pathetic.
He didn't have enough respect for Nash's leadership to stick with the "Slowtime" game plan in Game 5. He shot too quickly and let the Suns rediscover their up-tempo identity.

Nash left Smush Parker with a wide-open jumper at the end of regulation as he ran at Kobe. No matter how much confidence Parker had lost -- he was 0-for-5 -- Kobe should have built the kind of relationship with him that he could have said during the timeout: "If they double me, you're going to win the game."

That's the kind of confidence Jordan instilled in John Paxson and Steve Kerr. Ultimately, Jordan's greatest strength was making his teammates believe they were capable of doing whatever he asked them to do to win championships.
That's what Nash has done with an entire roster. Nash hosts team dinners on the road. Nash constantly hugs teammates after they make big shots. Nash makes them believe they're far better than they have a right to be.
Kobe is incapable of that.

On the verge of maturing into a leader, Kobe turned back into a one-man show. What a disappointment.
In Saturday night's Game 7, Kobe basically tried to outscore the Suns by himself -- and you had the halftime feeling that he would at least make it crazy close. But the rpm was too hot, especially in Phoenix. Although Kobe had looked unstoppable in scoring 23 in the first half, Phoenix was on pace to score 120 and led by 15.
So when the Suns came out even hotter in the third quarter, Kobe basically quit. For sure, he quit shooting. He scored one more point -- on a technical-foul free throw.
Jordan never would have done that.
Deep down, Kobe is still the spoiled brat.

Nash summed up Kobe Bryant by saying: "I don't know what to expect of him. Sometimes it's a little strange."
When the blowout ended, Kobe trotted straight to the locker room. Sure, the blood had been bad between these teams. But at least he could have shaken Nash's hand, or Shawn Marion's. But no. No class.
Ironically, that has been a legitimate knock on LeBron -- that he's too nice a kid, too chummy with and respectful of his elder opponents. Anyone who spent much time around Jordan knows he was the Chicago basketball equivalent of Capone -- a cold-blooded killer.
But in LeBron's first playoff series, against Washington, LeBron displayed two new Jordanesque qualities.

LeBron's jumper isn't as pretty as Kobe's, but neither was Jordan's.
First, he's beginning to attack the basket with Jordan's fury. Not Jordan's rage, but Jordan's emotional intensity. When in doubt -- and LeBron still has key-moment doubt in his hot/cold jump shot -- LeBron basically plays football. Yes, at around 260 pounds, this No. 23 is more Bear than Bull.


He's like an overgrown kid who doesn't quite know his own strength, ducking his head and freight-training down the lane. Actually, he has a better full-speed handle than Jordan did early in his career. Yet LeBron is getting as difficult to officiate as Shaquille O'Neal was in his Shaqzilla prime. Is it an offensive or defensive foul?

He's getting more and more of the calls. He got away with a walk before banking in the Game 4 winner. His teammate, Anderson Varejao, got away with basket interference in Friday night's Game 6.
But the key moment came after Gilbert Arenas missed the first of two free throws that could have given the Wizards a three-point lead with 15 seconds left in overtime. LeBron tapped him on the shoulder, basically told him that if he missed both free throws he was going to lose, then gave him a little slap on the chest.

Of course, no opponent should be allowed to touch a shooter before a free throw. Jordan would have sauntered past and made a subtle, side-of-the-mouth comment, something unprintable having to do with the shooter's lack of guts. For Jordan, this would have been calculated gamesmanship.
For LeBron, it looked more like guileless emotion. LeBron was so pumped up that he was just telling Arenas -- whom he respects -- exactly what he was thinking. You miss, we win.
Arenas missed.

LeBron, a much more gifted passer than Kobe, was double-teamed. LeBron passed off to Larry Hughes, who passed to Damon Jones, whose jumper won the game by one.
It had to mean a lot to his teammates to see LeBron play a Jordanesque mind game on Arenas. They had to be thinking, "Hey, maybe this kid can take us places."

Then again, LeBron's 22 first-half points didn't do his teammates much good in Sunday's Game 1 at Detroit. The Pistons led 69-48 at the half on the way to making a 113-86 statement.
It took the pre-rings Jordan three tries to get through Detroit.
LeBron will figure it out, next year or the next.
ESPN.com: Page 2 : LeBron's closer to MJ than Kobe
FTR, I dont care if people believe Kobe was better...just like seeing skip trolled for old comments :hubie:

In the Spoiler he actually starts naming the ways Kobe is better than Jordan. I forgot how Kobe was destroying the Suns early on that series. Then they lost 3 in a row and he starts hating. The LeBron article I posted earlier was actually after this one. So he flipped on both pretty soon.
 

Erratic415

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2005-06 was a year of high scoring for perimeter players. Look up the stats that year for Kobe, Bron, AI, Arenas, Wade, etc...Wade also had that crazy finals series.

They had made some rule changes back in 04’ on contact and it seemed it took a year for it to actually be called differently and make a noticeable statistical impact.
 

#1 pick

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2005-06 was a year of high scoring for perimeter players. Look up the stats that year for Kobe, Bron, AI, Arenas, Wade, etc...Wade also had that crazy finals series.

They had made some rule changes back in 04’ on contact and it seemed it took a year for it to actually be called differently and make a noticeable statistical impact.
They were playing insane minutes
 

ISO

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2005-06 was a year of high scoring for perimeter players. Look up the stats that year for Kobe, Bron, AI, Arenas, Wade, etc...Wade also had that crazy finals series.

They had made some rule changes back in 04’ on contact and it seemed it took a year for it to actually be called differently and make a noticeable statistical impact.
A lot of people say that but it can also be attributed to an excess of one man situations in the league and young guys at the time like Wade and LeBron breaking out.

Kobe taking nearly 30 shots a game and A.I. and Arenas playing 43 minutes a game for example.
 

DrexlersFade

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Found another Skip article.
Somebody should tweet this to him:pachaha::mjlit:

ESPN.com: Page 2 : LeBron's closer to MJ than Kobe
FTR, I dont care if people believe Kobe was better...just like seeing skip trolled for old comments :hubie:

In the Spoiler he actually starts naming the ways Kobe is better than Jordan. I forgot how Kobe was destroying the Suns early on that series. Then they lost 3 in a row and he starts hating. The LeBron article I posted earlier was actually after this one. So he flipped on both pretty soon.

Tweet it to Shannon that would be better:lolbron:
 
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