Let's be real: Chris Paul just isn't great enough

[Professor Emeritus]

Lmao

You're talking about cherry picking when YOU ARE cherry picking individual games?

I didn't cherry pick jack shyt. I named the final game in EVERY fukking series.

You keep moving the goalposts over and over. First it was "he doesn't step up in big games". When I proved that was false, you lied and said all my examples were the 1st round. When I proved that was false and listed all 11 series where he was past the 1st round, you lied and said I was cherry-picking. This is going to go on forever.

I was talking about the SERIES, not just the elimination game.

His performances series by series are just fine. Notice you didn't actually list any series, because you have no case. YOU are the one cherry-picking random games as if there's any player in NBA history with no bad games in a 17-year career.

For instance:

2015: Why are you ignoring that the team blew a 3-1 lead. Why are you ignoring game 6 when the team blew a 20 pt lead?

Paul didn't play well during that stretch.
You just completely glossed over that.

Why are you lying again? I DID post Game 6, so how can you say I ignored it? CP3 was playing on an injured hamstring, bad enough that he didn't even play the first two games of the series. Muscle injuries like a hamstring pull take weeks to recover. And yet, in Game 6, he dominated Harden.

Chris Paul: 31-7-11 on 10-19 shooting
Harden: 23-2-3 on 5-20 shooting

That's his big "choking" game to you? Because the Clippers' bigs blew the lead? Ariza, Smith, and Brewer started spamming shots from everywhere and Blake suddenly became butterfingers. CP3 had 9 of the Clippers 15 points during that 4th quarter collapse, he outscored all his teammates combined. But you want to put that shyt on him alone?

This is the bullshyt I'm talking about. CP3 was the best player on the court that day. He was the best player on offense and he shut down his guy on defense. But because he can't guard 6'9" forwards and can't keep his teammates from choking, suddenly the loss is all on him?

2019: Kd got hurt, the Warriors bench was weak. In game 6, Curry outclutched Paul. Curry got 33 points in that second half, and drained 2 contested threes to close it out. Paul didn't do enough at the end of that game.

I posted that game too! So you lied again claiming I cherry-picked. You're the one cherry-picking random games while I posted ALL his big games.

Chris Paul: 27-11-6 on 11-19 shooting
Steph Curry: 33-5-4 on 9-20 shooting

They basically played each other even. Yeah Steph had a great 2nd half, he does that. How is that on Paul's head when Steph scoring most of his points off of screens or on deep-ass threes? CP3 had 16 points on 7-13 shooting in the 2nd half himself....but somehow he's a choker now because the greatest shooter in the history of the league went off?

2021: did you really just say he outplayed Reggie Jackson like that means something KAWHI LEONARD GOT HURT

Wait, so CP3 putting up a 41-4-8 masterpiece on 16-24 shooting against a very good defensive backcourt of Pat Beverley and Reggie Jackson suddenly doesn't count now....because someone else got hurt?

Did Chris Paul play great or not? Was it a big game or not? If he had played bad you would have held it against him, but because he played great you want to ignore it and all his other big games in clutch situations too?

why are you ignoring the game 3 of the finals when he collapsed? Why you ignoring he lost 4 straight after up 2-0?

In Game 3 Booker went 3-14 for 10 points. Bridges had just 4 points. Phoenix bench went 1-11 from 3pt. Giannis put up 41. But you want to blame CP3 (who shot 8-14 for 19 points and 9 assists in just 33 minutes before the game got out of hand)....because no matter who plays poorly, CP3 gets all the blame.

This is more of the cherry-picking bullshyt. CP3 averaged 22-3-8 on 55% shooting and 52% from 3pt against an elite defensive team in the NBA Finals. Take out his one bad game (which was Game 4, not Game 3) and he averages nearly 25ppg in the other 5 games, at 36yo.

But he can't guard Giannis and can't force his role players to hit their threes, so he must suck.

These are all strawman arguments. I never said he got outplayed by the other team's point guard, I said he was outplayed period.

So he "chokes" because some big that he can't even guard goes off? How is that on him? It's true that in many meaningful games, his frontcourts have fukked up and failed to play the defense necessary to win. Why are y'all obsessed with blaming CP3 with that?

Notice that I responded to EVERY game you listed. And your examples were ass. CP3 played well in all of those games, he just couldn't single-handedly win the game. No one game, especially not a point guard because point guards don't guard bigs and don't protect the rim.

Y'all holding CP3 to a standard that no other point guard in NBA history has ever been held to. If you tried to cherry-pick other resumes the way you're cherry-picking CP3, they would look far far worse. Even Magic has more obvious choke games than CP3 does.

But you're literally blaming him for his teammates not coming through.

 

[torcher]

I'm a huge CP3 supporter, but having the best record in the league, being up 2-0 then 3-2 in the same series and then catching a 40 point beatdown in game 7 in your gym is inexcusable.

Suns going to have a long summer reflecting.

So why is it all the blame put on a 37 year old past his prime Chris Paul & not on the so called MVP candidate Devin Booker?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Then why is it all his fault, then???? That's weird logic.

Especially them Clippers teams where Blake Griffin got exposed for getting off on athleticism when it matter the most

fukking Harden, 100% healthy, disappeared that year the Rockets legit should've gone all the way

The Thunder were a talented team?

Team always get better when he arrives and rarely, if ever, better off without him.

Whenever they say, "He had talented teams so he should have gone further", they always ignore the actual talent or the actual teams he played.

CP3 never once had a team that was better than those Spurs, Thunder, Warriors squads. And most of the years he had his best talent, either he or Blake (sometimes both) got injured so it was for naught anyway. Even when he did have a decent team on paper, we've all seen what those Clippers, Rockets, Suns squads do in those games. Every single big win was because CP3 stepped up and dominated. He couldn't be Steph relying on KD and Klay to have huge games and advance anyway. No other star in the 2010s was let down by his teammates as regular as CP3 was.

 

[Shadow King]

Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier, ...

Magic had unique size at PG.

Not sure the other 2 are considered pass especially Walt.

 

[THE 101]

 

[mitter]

Magic had unique size at PG.

Not sure the other 2 are considered pass especially Walt.

How are they not considered pass-first?

Their ppg was consistently in the high teens or low 20s, just like CP. They weren't shooting the ball significantly more than him.

 

[Shadow King]

How are they not considered pass-first?

Their ppg was consistently in the high teens or low 20s, just like CP. They weren't shooting the ball significantly more than him.

Different standards for different eras. And Walt averaged 6 assists. If we're strictly using per game averages then that's not pass first.

And they actually did shoot more than Paul, they weren't shooting 3s to get to a similar scoring output which means more volume.

 

[KidJSoul]

Whenever they say, "He had talented teams so he should have gone further", they always ignore the actual talent or the actual teams he played.

CP3 never once had a team that was better than those Spurs, Thunder, Warriors squads. And most of the years he had his best talent, either he or Blake (sometimes both) got injured so it was for naught anyway. Even when he did have a decent team on paper, we've all seen what those Clippers, Rockets, Suns squads do in those games. Every single big win was because CP3 stepped up and dominated. He couldn't be Steph relying on KD and Klay to have huge games and advance anyway. No other star in the 2010s was let down by his teammates as regular as CP3 was.

The issue is his supporters overrated him, regardless. If CP3 was as great as his fans say he was, his rosters he had with the Clippers would have been good enough to AT LEAST reach the conference finals with.

 

[KidJSoul]

I didn't cherry pick jack shyt. I named the final game in EVERY fukking series.

You keep moving the goalposts over and over. First it was "he doesn't step up in big games". When I proved that was false, you lied and said all my examples were the 1st round. When I proved that was false and listed all 11 series where he was past the 1st round, you lied and said I was cherry-picking. This is going to go on forever.





His performances series by series are just fine. Notice you didn't actually list any series, because you have no case. YOU are the one cherry-picking random games as if there's any player in NBA history with no bad games in a 17-year career.





Why are you lying again? I DID post Game 6, so how can you say I ignored it? CP3 was playing on an injured hamstring, bad enough that he didn't even play the first two games of the series. Muscle injuries like a hamstring pull take weeks to recover. And yet, in Game 6, he dominated Harden.

Chris Paul: 31-7-11 on 10-19 shooting
Harden: 23-2-3 on 5-20 shooting

That's his big "choking" game to you? Because the Clippers' bigs blew the lead? Ariza, Smith, and Brewer started spamming shots from everywhere and Blake suddenly became butterfingers. CP3 had 9 of the Clippers 15 points during that 4th quarter collapse, he outscored all his teammates combined. But you want to put that shyt on him alone?

This is the bullshyt I'm talking about. CP3 was the best player on the court that day. He was the best player on offense and he shut down his guy on defense. But because he can't guard 6'9" forwards and can't keep his teammates from choking, suddenly the loss is all on him?





I posted that game too! So you lied again claiming I cherry-picked. You're the one cherry-picking random games while I posted ALL his big games.

Chris Paul: 27-11-6 on 11-19 shooting
Steph Curry: 33-5-4 on 9-20 shooting

They basically played each other even. Yeah Steph had a great 2nd half, he does that. How is that on Paul's head when Steph scoring most of his points off of screens or on deep-ass threes? CP3 had 16 points on 7-13 shooting in the 2nd half himself....but somehow he's a choker now because the greatest shooter in the history of the league went off?





Wait, so CP3 putting up a 41-4-8 masterpiece on 16-24 shooting against a very good defensive backcourt of Pat Beverley and Reggie Jackson suddenly doesn't count now....because someone else got hurt?

Did Chris Paul play great or not? Was it a big game or not? If he had played bad you would have held it against him, but because he played great you want to ignore it and all his other big games in clutch situations too?





In Game 3 Booker went 3-14 for 10 points. Bridges had just 4 points. Phoenix bench went 1-11 from 3pt. Giannis put up 41. But you want to blame CP3 (who shot 8-14 for 19 points and 9 assists in just 33 minutes before the game got out of hand)....because no matter who plays poorly, CP3 gets all the blame.

This is more of the cherry-picking bullshyt. CP3 averaged 22-3-8 on 55% shooting and 52% from 3pt against an elite defensive team in the NBA Finals. Take out his one bad game (which was Game 4, not Game 3) and he averages nearly 25ppg in the other 5 games, at 36yo.

But he can't guard Giannis and can't force his role players to hit their threes, so he must suck.






So he "chokes" because some big that he can't even guard goes off? How is that on him? It's true that in many meaningful games, his frontcourts have fukked up and failed to play the defense necessary to win. Why are y'all obsessed with blaming CP3 with that?

Notice that I responded to EVERY game you listed. And your examples were ass. CP3 played well in all of those games, he just couldn't single-handedly win the game. No one game, especially not a point guard because point guards don't guard bigs and don't protect the rim.

Y'all holding CP3 to a standard that no other point guard in NBA history has ever been held to. If you tried to cherry-pick other resumes the way you're cherry-picking CP3, they would look far far worse. Even Magic has more obvious choke games than CP3 does.

But you're literally blaming him for his teammates not coming through.

I NEVER SAID "HE DOESNT STEP UP IN BIG GAMES".

I said that he's not often the best player on the court past the 1st round.

I agree that he's technically played fine past the 1st round. But he's never the most dominant player.

You said "How is that on Paul's head when Steph scoring most of his points off of screens or on deep-ass threes?".

You keep on focusing on the individual matchups. Breh I never said he needed to clamp Curry, nor was I expecting him to. My issue is that he couldn't match the production.

Look at it this way: in that Boston Milwaukee series in game 6, Grant Williams was cheeks, Horford was okay but not great, etc. But Tatum dropped 46 and went toe-to-toe with Giannis who dropped 44.

Did Tatum guard Giannis? Not that frequently. But we praise Tatum because he didn't just "play fine". He matched Giannis's production.

Luka doesn't guard Ayton. But averaged more rebounds than him this series. He scored more than Booker did this series.

See what I'm saying? I never said CP3 chokes, my issue is that his CEILING is never that high.

Again, there's a reason why his first conference finals series was as a 2nd option to Harden, and his 1st finals apperance was in a year where they had borderline historic injury luck.

 

[nieman]

Whenever they say, "He had talented teams so he should have gone further", they always ignore the actual talent or the actual teams he played.

CP3 never once had a team that was better than those Spurs, Thunder, Warriors squads. And most of the years he had his best talent, either he or Blake (sometimes both) got injured so it was for naught anyway. Even when he did have a decent team on paper, we've all seen what those Clippers, Rockets, Suns squads do in those games. Every single big win was because CP3 stepped up and dominated. He couldn't be Steph relying on KD and Klay to have huge games and advance anyway. No other star in the 2010s was let down by his teammates as regular as CP3 was.

Because every other player that also gets criticized for losing to better teams has to deal with it. Clippers were supposed contenders on paper. He has a 20& 10 All-Star, DPOY, 6th Man, a shooter in Reddikk and defenders. He had more help than a lot of other teams. He lost to a Gordon Hayward-led Jazz team. You can say Blake got injured, but the best player was still Gordon Hayward...and the rest of the roster was better. Rockets were no better with him than they were without him. Spurs were over the hill (even though they managed to get in done), and he had more than enough to compete with the young Thunder and Warriors. The point is that as the "Point God" it is up to him to get his players in position where they don't have to do anything but drop it in. They were good enough to be up 2-0 in a lot of those series. Granted, last 2 years were not his fault. That was mostly Devin Booker...and last year was about them not being ready, and Chris Paul is definitely done...but he also should be highly praised now. There was emphasis on them being a 64-W team, and Chris Paul leading them to the league and franchise best record, so now he deserves heat for it as well.

 

[Frump]

Paul never was a good enough scorer to be the first option on a title team which is why I can’t put him with other all time greats

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I've seen you have all this smoke for Lowry (whose hamstring is fukked), but I haven't seen you address shyt about CP3. @Regular_P

Funny that.