He's getting to that with the hook. Can't really focus on the counter until he gets good enough and comfortable enough with it that defenders respect it enough to try and take it away.
lets discuss drummond being the best player of the first week of the season
- Thread starter WOAHMYGOODNESS
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In all fairness, Dwight back-to-the-basket game shytted on Drum on the same stage of their careers. But Drum is freakish in terms of instincts on the offensive board. Defensively, he's no prime Dwight but he's getting so much better in terms of team defense and unlike Dwight, Drum can defend the PnR extremely well.Dude is a beast and his game is actually developing in a consistent way.
unlike Dwight
It's looking a lot more fluid than last year. It's not dropping consistently yet but repetition should get it there, much like what happened last year. It's been refined, in a positive way, from how he released it last year. Has a stronger base and more use of the off arm to fend off the defender when he goes up. You know I noticed it.
I still would like to see him face up every once in a while. Not nearly as often as Dwight did, but even at his size he has a quickness advantage on a lot of bigs, and I think he's a more fluid athlete with better body control than Dwight could ever wish to have. In time that may come as its still baby steps with his offensive development, but watching him pull off a move by accident that wows you really has me thirsting to see him unlock his potential. The prophet Stan Van Muhammed will help him get there though
Paul and Griffin have higher usage rates and time in possession of the ball than any two-man combination Drummond has ever played with. I mean if Drummond was on the Clippers - he would be putting up similar #s to DeAndre and vice versa if DeAndre was on the Pistons - except he'd do it with less touches and better efficiency.
There's no doubt that Drummond has the higher ceiling, but last season and even this season they're still comparable players.
The usage rates between the teams aren't much different, both played with ball hungry players -
Blake - 28.4
Jamal - 27.6
CP3 - 23.7
Jennings - 26.3 & Jackson - 28.4
Smith - 25.3
Monroe - 23.9
DeAndre wouldn't be able to have the same role as Drummond on the Pistons, he's older and has never been the focal point of an offense, they are legit running plays for Drummond in cases and having him go to work on the block, hence the FG%. He's not great at it yet but he should be able to improve, Jordan has never had that responsibility. He's always a garbage man.
I don't think they were, mainly because Jordan isn't a post up player in any sense while Drummond is working at it.
There's still a decent enough margin in USG% that favors Drummond (this isn't even getting into the fact he touches the ball more) - that's also taking into account whatever advantage you think DeAndre may have playing with Paul (who averaged the second highest time of possession in the league) last season and one of the most highest scoring big men in the league (who also helps orchestrate the offense). Let's not act like DeAndre gets regular touches playing with CP/BG.
Of course he would. Let's not act like Drummond is some type of offensive threat at this stage of his career:
Drummond - 18 ppg on 41% shooting (on 13.5 attempts), 16 rpg
DeAndre (without BG) - 15 ppg on 67% shooting (on 7.6 attempts), 18 rpg
You can't tell me that DeAndre wouldn't be able to replicate (and even eclipse) those type of #s, if he was given more of an offensive role. I think you're microwaving Drummond's game, when he isn't at the stage where he's taken his game to another level - which dwarfs whatever DeAndre can produce - he isn't there just yet.
And yet DeAndre still put up better numbers when he was given a similar role to Drummond.
Drummond touches the ball more because they actually get it to him in the post, they do not do that with DeAndre, You can't say he can do what Drummond did because we have zero evidence he can score in the post under any situation, he is a high level garbage man and nothing more. I haven't said Drummond is the next Hakeem, but he has been scoring in the post and has improved at it since last season. The spacing the Pistons had last year was miserable, this is the first year we're seeing a full season of Drummond getting space to operate, do you really think DeAndre with no history of any kind of post game would be able to be featured on the low block? He's never done it before, and we don't even see flashes of it.
You're comparing apples to oranges, DeAndre wasn't some post up machine when BG was out
He was just getting more rolls to the rim and room to operate, meanwhile after the all-star break last year Drummond averaged 16ppg / 15rpg on 54% as the featured player in the post. We can skip all the numbers and I can just ask you to show me some clips of DeAndre in the post during that stretch, cause I can easily do that with Drummond He wouldn't, there's no evidence of him in the post, with the way the Pistons are currently using Drummond he would need a post game, SVG is basically forcing Drummond to develop a post game. On the flipside DeAndre's pre-game hook shots are fukking ugly as shyt, and you want him to go out there take 3 dribbles spin to the middle and take one? Drummond isn't there yet in the post, but DeAndre is so far off from Drummond we may as well start calling Andre Jack Sikma in comparison.
And yet DeAndre still put up better numbers when he was given a similar role to Drummond.
How was the role similar? They didn't post DeAndre up at any point in the season, Drummond was assisted on 57% of his shots at the rim, DeAndre 70%, Drummond attempted 194 hook shots to DeAndre's 24. Their roles are only similar if you're looking at the end product and not how they got them, Drummond was called onto to score in the post, is he ready to do that, probably not but the fact remains he's been doing it longer than DeAndre who is older and less skilled in the post.
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DoubleClutch
Superstar
Pelicans were a pick away from possibly pairing up Drummond/Davis.
however i got a feeling those fools would still have drafted rivers as they're the same dumb team that got noel to fall in their laps only to trade him away from Jrue.
however i got a feeling those fools would still have drafted rivers as they're the same dumb team that got noel to fall in their laps only to trade him away from Jrue.
Yep you could see Drummonds potential in college.
I'm not suggesting he has an array of moves in the post, high or low, and quite frankly neither does Drummond - the point is, he still puts up equal-to-better #s despite whatever slight edge in skillset Drummond has displayed so far in his career. I feel like you're trying to make an argument for Drummond's play that he hasn't shown on a regular basis just yet.
He has shown flashes of a post game, albeit limited (him going to Dallas would've given a clearer picture), again let's not act like Drummond still isn't raw in that respect too. He hasn't created separation from DeAndre. I don't see how you could argue otherwise. The #s are indicative of this.
Who said that he was? Why are you overlooking their respective production? You're speaking as if I'm trying to compare DeAndre's post moves to Boogie's. Both Drummond and DeAndre have similar impact on the game - this is inarguable. The #s/%s, scoring output/offensive play and defensive role are all similar.You're comparing apples to oranges, DeAndre wasn't some post up machine when BG was out
He was just getting more rolls to the rim and room to operate, meanwhile after the all-star break last year Drummond averaged 16ppg / 15rpg on 54% as the featured player in the post. We can skip all the numbers and I can just ask you to show me some clips of DeAndre in the post during that stretch, cause I can easily do that with Drummond
Why would we skip the true matter of this argument - the stats? I'm not saying that he has the offhand, touch, footwork or agility in the lowpost that Drummond has temporarily shown. We're speaking about their overall games and impact. Drummond had 16 ppg and 15 rpg on 54% and DeAndre had 15 ppg and 18 rpg on 67% - can you please tell me how they aren't comparable? Taking into account all their other contributions on the offensive end and their defensive impact - they're on the same level.
And again, why are you speaking as if Drummond is a savant in the post and not somebody who's still raw and learning his trade?
18 postup attempts while only scoring 6 points on 16% shooting. Are you telling me that DeAndre isn't capable of producing (in limited fashion) a similar strike rate if given the same opportunities? Drummond hasn't shown he can produce in the post on a consistent and efficient basis for you to be claiming this type of nonsense. Boogie, Jefferson, Lopez and Pau have post games that are on another level - Drummond = no.
If DeAndre went to Dallas, you'd see him have more of a role on offense and he'd average #s around the same as he did when BG was out last season- with slightly lower efficiency, given he'd have more touches and defensive attention. Which would be better than what Drummond's currently averaging, yet you want to argue that they aren't comparable?
Can you stop talking about post ups? Their roles were similar in that they were the #1 frontcourt scoring option for their respective teams - whether that came from pounding the offensive glass, post ups, mismatchups or on PNR opportunities. Similar roles reflected by similar numbers. Again:
Drummond - 16 ppg on 54%, 15 rpg
DeAndre - 15 ppg on 67%, 18 rpg
How can you sit there and and post like they aren't comparable - this isn't even taking into account that DeAndre actually had betters #s - regardless of how he attained them. Also, let's not act like a large percentage of Drummond's points last season (13.8 points per game) weren't from offensive rebounds (5.3 per game).
If your argument is that Drummond is more skilled in the post - isn't that quite obvious? However, that doesn't make him a player whose impact on the game is beyond DeAndre's, to the point where they aren't comparable. And again, if your argument is that Drummond was called on to score in the post (therefore on a tier above DeAndre - because he didn't) - shouldn't his #s be considerably better since he had more opportunities to score?
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WE'LL SEE
His potential is different to what impact he has on the game right now. I think folk are getting the two confused.
Where have I said Drummond has an array of moves? I said he's shown more than DeAndre, who has essentially shown nothing, despite being in the league longer. He put up similar numbers with a better team while being used specifically as a garbage man and nothing more, he's had better teammates than Drummond with similar usage rates yet has never scored more than him. Similar numbers does not mean similar players, I saw enough of Drummond in the post last year to say he's better at it than DeAndre.
What flashes? there aren't any numbers to back up the idea that he can play in the post, there are no clips, no nothing.
Who said that he was? Why are you overlooking their respective production? You're speaking as if I'm trying to compare DeAndre's post moves to Boogie's. Both Drummond and DeAndre have similar impact on the game - this is inarguable. The #s/%s, scoring output/offensive play and defensive role are all similar.
Why would we skip the true matter of this argument - the stats? I'm not saying that he has the offhand, touch, footwork or agility in the lowpost that Drummond has temporarily shown. We're speaking about their overall games and impact. Drummond had 16 ppg and 15 rpg on 54% and DeAndre had 15 ppg and 18 rpg on 67% - can you please tell me how they aren't comparable? Taking into account all their other contributions on the offensive end and their defensive impact - they're on the same level.
And again, why are you speaking as if Drummond is a savant in the post and not somebody who's still raw and learning his trade?
If he doesn't have the footwork, offhand, touch or agility how are they similar players? You're describing two different players that play the same position but put up similar numbers. I'm asking for clips of DeAndre working in the post because if they were truly similar that would be an easy way to point it out, just because two guys get similar numbers doesn't mean they are the same player. Tyreke Evans and Bradley Beal posted similar numbers last year, are they the same player?
How you get your numbers matters, Drummond was getting featured in the post with his back to the basket when he was scoring, while DeAndre was still just a PnR garbage man. I never implied that he was Boogie, Jefferson, Randolph etc. but he has been getting the ball on the block and it started last season, I know he can score for himself, I can't say the same about DeAndre.
18 postup attempts while only scoring 6 points on 16% shooting. Are you telling me that DeAndre isn't capable of producing (in limited fashion) a similar strike rate if given the same opportunities? Drummond hasn't shown he can produce in the post on a consistent and efficient basis for you to be claiming this type of nonsense. Boogie, Jefferson, Lopez and Pau have post games that are on another level - Drummond = no.
Considering the Clippers have run 0 post ups for DeAndre so far, how can you say he can do anything? Going purely by stats his percentage is zero
You're trying to knock Andre for being a work in progress which I've said, while neglecting the fact DeAndre has never handed in any homework. How can you definitively say he could do anything in the post, site Drummond's post up numbers, and have absolutely no numbers on DeAndre in the post as a counterpoint?If DeAndre went to Dallas, you'd see him have more of a role on offense and he'd average #s around the same as he did when BG was out last season- with slightly lower efficiency, given he'd have more touches and defensive attention. Which would be better than what Drummond's currently averaging, yet you want to argue that they aren't comparable?
He's not in Dallas, and the fact of the matter is the Clippers STILL wont run any post plays for him, Doc Rivers used to run the occassional post play for Kendrick Perkins, yet on a team with ample shooting and a PF starting to take more threes they still won't give this dude the ball on the block?
Dallas would have used him like they did Tyson Chandler, nobody that has never been a feature in the post and been in the league for 7 years is going to turn into the focal point of an offense.
Why should I stop talking about post ups, it's a distinct way to point out their differences, one has a rudimentary back to the basket game and the other doesn't.
So let me get this straight, you're using his numbers when BG was out, meanwhile Drummond was still playing with high usage players in Jackson and Monroe? Yet you also pointed out that CP3 & Blake are high usage
So how can you compare their numbers in that case, you're removing one high usage player from the equation while Drummond still had to deal with 2 Also, how you get your numbers does matter, Drummond and Jordan are not used the same, because as you can see from the NBA.com/stats there are no post ups for Jordan.DeAndre is closer to a prime Anderson Varejao than he is Drummond, I don't understand how you can look at the numbers and see 70% of DeAndre's offense being created for him vs 58% for Drummond and come to the conclusion that they are really comparable. We have never see DeAndre do any kind of work in the post, and his team treats giving him the ball on the block like it's the plague despite the fact that would be a nice weapon to have. If they were kids, Drummond would be taking his first shakey steps, meanwhile DeAndre has a developmental problem and is still crawling, and those steps for Drummond started last season.