Let's Talk About Gun Control
- Thread starter Black Magisterialness
- Start date
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Any pro-gun guys care to answer to this? Or is a shooting spree every now and then just "collateral damage" to your "right to bear arms"?
So, yeah, you are saying that kids dying here and there is not enough to MAYBE reconsider that right. I see.
Well, at least today's shooter didn't kill anyone
A Man Opened Fire in an Alabama Hospital this Morning
Type Username Here
Not a new member
Any pro-gun guys care to answer to this? Or is a shooting spree every now and then just "collateral damage" to your "right to bear arms"?
So, yeah, you are saying that kids dying here and there is not enough to MAYBE reconsider that right. I see.
Well, at least today's shooter didn't kill anyone
A Man Opened Fire in an Alabama Hospital this Morning
There is going to be violence everyday. I just want you to know what.
Contrary to what you think, we are living the most peaceful of times in human history.
War And Violence On The Decline In Modern Times : NPR
The only thing that change is that now we are more connected to the world. We have 24 hours news, facebook, twitter, forums, etc..
These mass shootings are VERY rare.
Sorry, but it's the truth.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Breh, let's keep the discussion on what's happening nowadays. Does it REALLY not bother you that just after 20 kids were killed with guns ANOTHER guy goes shooting in a hospital? Please, just answer: Do you care ?
Again, I will ask those simple questions:
If we assume that guns are NOT the problem, that means that people are. Correct?
If people are the problem, AND THAT WE WANT TO STOP THE KILLINGS (if, indeed, one wants to stop these killings), what do you do?
I see you're not in the mood to actually address the issue.
Anyway I think maybe we should take a look at how the Japanese have almost completely eliminated gun-related violence. We have many more people in the US killed by accidental gunfire than by intentional gun violence in J apan.
First off, most types of guns are completely illegal, the only guns that Japanese citizens can buy (legally) are air rifles and shotguns. Handguns are illegal. Small rifles have been illegal since the 70s...people who had one before they became illegal were allowed to keep it, but their heirs have to turn it over to the police once they die.
If you want to get a gun in Japan, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test. The class is only held once a month. You also have to take and pass a shooting range class. Even after that, you're done yet. Once you pass the shooting range class, you have to go to the hospital to pass a mental health test as well as a drug test, both of which you must file with the police. After that you have to pass a background check for any criminal record or associations with gangs or other dangerous/extremist groups. Also, don't forget to to make sure you provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the specific location of the ammo (they are required to be locked and stored separately). Also be aware that the police will inspect the gun yearly, and that you have to retake the class and exam every three years.
That probably seems excessive to your average American, but there's almost NO gun violence in Japan. In 2008, Japan had only 11 gun-related homocides, compared to the US which had 12,000+. And that's despite the Japanese having plenty of violent videogames/media, not being religious, etc. (all the BS the media likes to blame tragedies on).
And I'm not naive enough to think we could implement all of that (the NRA is way too powerful) but I honestly think we should be looking at what the Japanese are doing right and seeing what we CAN take from their model.
Type Username Here
Not a new member
You address mental health, access to healthcare, stigmatizing those with mental illnesses and this 24 hour Human Porn that makes these people infamous and gives them legitimacy.
Charlie Brooker's Newswipe 25/03/09 - YouTube
Type Username Here
Not a new member
I see you're not in the mood to actually address the issue.
Anyway I think maybe we should take a look at how the Japanese have almost completely eliminated gun-related violence. We have many more people in the US killed by accidental gunfire than by intentional gun violence in J apan.
First off, most types of guns are completely illegal, the only guns that Japanese citizens can buy (legally) are air rifles and shotguns. Handguns are illegal. Small rifles have been illegal since the 70s...people who had one before they became illegal were allowed to keep it, but their heirs have to turn it over to the police once they die.
If you want to get a gun in Japan, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test. The class is only held once a month. You also have to take and pass a shooting range class. Even after that, you're done yet. Once you pass the shooting range class, you have to go to the hospital to pass a mental health test as well as a drug test, both of which you must file with the police. After that you have to pass a background check for any criminal record or associations with gangs or other dangerous/extremist groups. Also, don't forget to to make sure you provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the specific location of the ammo (they are required to be locked and stored separately). Also be aware that the police will inspect the gun yearly, and that you have to retake the class and exam every three years.
That probably seems excessive to your average American, but there's almost NO gun violence in Japan. In 2008, Japan had only 11 gun-related homocides, compared to the US which had 12,000+. And that's despite the Japanese having plenty of violent videogames/media, not being religious, etc. (all the BS the media likes to blame tragedies on).
And I'm not naive enough to think we could implement all of that (the NRA is way too powerful) but I honestly think we should be looking at what the Japanese are doing right and seeing what we CAN take from their model.
You fail to take into account the second amendment. Over and Over.
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to have weapons outside of the control of the United States Government. It's a law LIMITING government powers.
My first post explains the law to you.
You can't just snap your fingers and change Constitutional Law acri.
Type Username Here
Not a new member
I'll put it this way:
If the opposition can pass a Constitutional Amendment redefining the 2nd Amendment, I would support the new law.
Good luck.
If the opposition can pass a Constitutional Amendment redefining the 2nd Amendment, I would support the new law.
Good luck.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
You didn't answer to the other question ("Do you care?") but at least now we're talking.
Adressing these issues makes a LOT of sense...but WHY isn't it the case NOW? It's not like there haven't been killings before. How many must die before you guys even consider acting?
And we both know that only deals with part of the problem. What happens if Mommy is totally sane and is therefore allowed to have a gun, but her cute kid starts losing it when he turns 16? Do you implement yearly checkups? Once she has been allowed to have a gun, do you (as a public authority) keep the right to withdraw that gun if SHE goes crazy down the road, do you keep the right to withdraw it if there is a RISK her son would use it? Can she sell the gun (it's my understanding that arms fairs severely lack screenings)?
Why would americans accept this kind of control? Wouldn't it be seen as an "infringement" to their "right" to bear arms (since the 2nd Amendment, if I understand welln says that ALL citizens have that rigjht)?
Type Username Here
Not a new member
Do I care about what?
Don't blame me, I advocate for a single payer system. In our current health care model, preventive medicine is absolutely atrocious, especially in the mental health area.
If she passes an initial psyche eval and legally purchases her weapon, than nothing else should be done. If her weapons are stolen or she goes crazy down the line, the problem was not the initial purchase of the gun.
They won't accept it and they never will. A free society will always be open to violence.
Type Username Here
Not a new member
Type Username Here
Not a new member
Your argument is centered on your opinion and personal anecdotes. There is not one shroud of data or anything resembling a point based on current law or the legal process.
You're doing the same things I have seen you advocate against in other threads.
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
My question "Do you care" was linked to the fact that you are STILL here discussing all of this like there wasn't another shooting today. Really breh, I see you're trying to seriously discuss this issue, but the more it goes on the more it sounds like you're saying "My right to bear arms is above anything else, if some kids gotta die, so be it".
Agree on the health system, but we all saw how attemts to reform that go. So it looks like another dead end.
So if she goes crazy/the gun is stolen, you're just gonna wash your hands on some "Well, we did what we could" sh*t? That's like selling weapons to rebels and acting surprised when they end up in the hand of terrorists (NOT a fictionnal scenario). We vastly differ on this: for me, the very RISK of the gun MAYBE ending in the wrong hands means that I must have EXTREMELY strong controls on those who legally purchase it.
Of course shyt is going to happen, we all know that and I've said it myself.
BUt does that stop us from trying to reduce that risk as much as we can?