Let's talk about the fact that 2Pac was 25 when he died

[Techniec]

That song above ur post is more than just "witty rhymes" its high level storytelling combined with high technical skill

at voice...nikka his voice is one of the main reasons he had his first tour

Artistry? I thought the aspect was ultimately subjective

Catalogue? Jay's 4th best album(American Gangster) is better than Pac's best sht

Flow? nikka Pac couldnt even double time without sounding like he's trapped in a burning building

nikkaz like Jay and Nas could flow effortlessly

nikka rlly said flow

Need I say more

I didnt say artistry is subjective. artistry can be measured objectively. is the guy simply going into the booth and rapping? or is coming up with sample ideas, creating hooks, coming up with beats. there is no comparison between pac and jay z when it comes to artistry

lets talk originality, there is no jay z sound. just constant dikk riding of the hottest sounds and producers. nothing defining about the man. whereas pac worked with no name producers and made a definitive sound out of it, made it a classic

again, jays voice sounds like a bytch. its offending to my ears. unlike pacs trademark ferocious voice, you felt his pain, his emotions, his anguish. you dont feel nothing with jay z. nothing. no emotion, no vulnerability, just a cracked voice and a whisper flow

pac has 3 albums better than jay zs best. cmon now...only jay stans and revisionist dikk riders will even argue other wise.

could you imagine jays squeaky voice trying to rap over ambitions as a ridah or troublesome 96 like pac did...i would pay $1000 to see jay attempt that...shyt would be embarassing

 

[Sad Bunny]

Weezy was 21 when C1 dropped

He was 25 when C3 dropped

And we all know what came in between that ...... history...legendary

 

[blackslash]

I didnt say artistry is subjective. artistry can be measured objectively. is the guy simply going into the booth and rapping? or is coming up with sample ideas, creating hooks, coming up with beats. there is no comparison between pac and jay z when it comes to artistry

lets talk originality, there is no jay z sound. just constant dikk riding of the hottest sounds and producers. nothing defining about the man. whereas pac worked with no name producers and made a definitive sound out of it, made it a classic

again, jays voice sounds like a bytch. its offending to my ears. unlike pacs trademark ferocious voice, you felt his pain, his emotions, his anguish. you dont feel nothing with jay z. nothing. no emotion, no vulnerability, just a cracked voice and a whisper flow

pac has 3 albums better than jay zs best. cmon now...only jay stans and revisionist dikk riders will even argue other wise.

could you imagine jays squeaky voice trying to rap over ambitions as a ridah or troublesome 96 like pac did...i would pay $1000 to see jay attempt that...shyt would be embarassing

nikka here I am trying to have an objective argument but your critiques of Jay Z show a very deep seeded hatred u have for the man

cracked voice whisper flow??

RD, Vol. 1 2 3 BP BP 2 ..whats are u talkin bout

What is offensive bout Jay's voice are u just desperate to hate or something

Artistry again ur point shows ur deep seeded disdain for Jay

Creating hooks?? u mean how SUBJECTIVELY good they are??
Sample ideas??

nikka ur embarassing urself..

Again u basically show urself to be the typical homotional illogical Pac stan who cant argue on a upright tip

U keep looking over the least subjective parts of the argument(the technical aspect) but I see u doe do u

 

[bigesco]

fukk 2Pac. Let's talk about the fact that Jay-Z was 26 when he dropped the best album of the whole genre ever - RD. (which easily shyts on the whole Pac discography )

Not even a top 10 album from 96

 

[JuvenileHell]

Yup, Pac is the GOAT dead or alive. That nikka is just alone on his own tier.

 

[Grew_Up_Hella_Early]

I didnt say artistry is subjective. artistry can be measured objectively. is the guy simply going into the booth and rapping? or is coming up with sample ideas, creating hooks, coming up with beats. there is no comparison between pac and jay z when it comes to artistry

lets talk originality, there is no jay z sound. just constant dikk riding of the hottest sounds and producers. nothing defining about the man. whereas pac worked with no name producers and made a definitive sound out of it, made it a classic

again, jays voice sounds like a bytch. its offending to my ears. unlike pacs trademark ferocious voice, you felt his pain, his emotions, his anguish. you dont feel nothing with jay z. nothing. no emotion, no vulnerability, just a cracked voice and a whisper flow

pac has 3 albums better than jay zs best. cmon now...only jay stans and revisionist dikk riders will even argue other wise.

could you imagine jays squeaky voice trying to rap over ambitions as a ridah or troublesome 96 like pac did...i would pay $1000 to see jay attempt that...shyt would be embarassing

Iono I'm kinda torn on this....u don't think Jay goes into the studio with more purpose?pac admittedly would go in drunk and not fix his mistakes,high and just rap about life...the goat was as great as he was without trying...not downplaying his method bcuz its his method and it worked....but I can't call it on who should get more credit artistry wise,I just give Pac more credit cuz I like his music way better...if it wasn't so damn good we'd call him lazy like we do other nikkas that attempt his method,and say he should focus on quality over quantity....I gotta think on this one

 

[Majestic Pape]

I have this argument with mufukkas saying these top artists nowadays are "young" and deserve time to improve.

Nas had already created two classics by the time he was 22. Biggie and Pac are landmarks in this shyt and neither lived to see 26. LL, Rakim, Mobb Deep, Scarface, Bone, etc., etc. were all making classics practically before they could even legally drink.

 

[Gifted one]

There's a reason why Pac is in the Bob Marley, Hendrix, Lennon, Paul Mccartney, Marvin Gaye class and other rappers isn't

 

[Techniec]

nikka here I am trying to have an objective argument but your critiques of Jay Z show a very deep seeded hatred u have for the man

cracked voice whisper flow??

RD, Vol. 1 2 3 BP BP 2 ..whats are u talkin bout

What is offensive bout Jay's voice are u just desperate to hate or something

Artistry again ur point shows ur deep seeded disdain for Jay

Creating hooks?? u mean how SUBJECTIVELY good they are??
Sample ideas??

nikka ur embarassing urself..

Again u basically show urself to be the typical homotional illogical Pac stan who cant argue on a upright tip

U keep looking over the least subjective parts of the argument(the technical aspect) but I see u doe do u

the man sounds like a bytch, whats the matter with you. pac sounding like a general barking orders, jay sounding like an insecure waiter meekly asking you if you want a guacamole dip for an extra .35 cents

cmon son

name one beat jay had a hand in making, name 2 hooks that jay sings, name one anecdote about jay digging in the crates for a sample

cmon son

you sitting here talking about double entrendes and all that gay shyt, this is music son, who makes better music

lets look at the puzzy ass singles jay released and lets look at the singles pac released

keep ya head up, dear mama, i get around, shed so many tears, hail mary etc

compare that to change clothes

jay has 2 good albums to his name, the rest just generic wackness

 

[Nomad1]

Do you ever stop sucking tutupac dikk? I understand that your daddy wasn't there so you look to tutupac for inspiration but damn homie maybe you can buy his ashes from his crack headed mama and bring him back to life

Im not dikkriding anybody. Hell, look at the nikka that's in my avatar, Im a fan of many rappers. Also, I do have a father (died in 05'). You can hate on Pac all you want nikka I don't care

 

[JuvenileHell]

For posterity though, back then a lot of cats were dropping dope, classic, influential music at a young age, not just Pac. The bigger issue is that nowadays the rappers are today are clocking 25/26 and aren't comparable to the teenage rappers of the past

 

[Nomad1]

None of those songs portray great complex wordplay or well written double entendres(and I mean the actual definition of the word)

U have a case for the metaphor aspect...he would often times reference things and objects thought of as divine to give more significance to his and our struggles

But when we're talkin technical

Pac does not compare to Biggie, Jay or Nas...Im sorry it is what it is

There is no Pac song that will reach the technical skill and storytelling ability of this

I just said that looking for "complex wordplay" or a lot of "double entendres" when listening to Pac is completely pointless because that's not the type of artist he is. This can be applied to a lot of rappers. Lyricism does not only embody punchlines, wordplay, or multis. Just listen to Pac's Blasphemy and look at the meaning of word shyts crazy. You can break his verse and analyze its meaning. There is even a video of a woman doing just that. Pac was a great writer. Jigga can never make a song like Blasphemy or White Man's World...just like Pac can't make a song like Devils or nikkas Bleed....the songs that I just mentioned show exactly what artist masters what element of lyricism. If you prefer Jigga> Pac I don't care because arguing over something that's subjective is pointless. I like Pac's music more and Pac was a lyricist.

Also, you say that Pac became a "martyr" and that's wrong. He was ultra popular when he was alive and he sold a lot of records. Growing up in the West a lot of people were calling Pac one of the best in the game. So his death just elevated that status. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Malcolmxxx_23]

pac is the goat

i still remember the morning when i found out he got shot

 

[blackslash]

the man sounds like a bytch, whats the matter with you. pac sounding like a general barking orders, jay sounding like an insecure waiter meekly asking you if you want a guacamole dip for an extra .35 cents

cmon son

name one beat jay had a hand in making, name 2 hooks that jay sings, name one anecdote about jay digging in the crates for a sample

cmon son

you sitting here talking about double entrendes and all that gay shyt, this is music son, who makes better music

lets look at the puzzy ass singles jay released and lets look at the singles pac released

keep ya head up, dear mama, i get around, shed so many tears, hail mary etc

compare that to change clothes

jay has 2 good albums to his name, the rest just generic wackness

Ima jus ignore u because da nikka @Nomad1 did what u couldnt..and that is not get all in his emotions and discuss things like gentleman..

U breh...U

Go on talm bout "bu bu bu its all subjective bu bu bu Pac sings hooks bu bu bu" reachin desperate than a mufcka

 

[Wild self]

bruh pac was born in a jail cell, grew up around black panthers, and in some of the worst projects in america on the east and west coast.. you gotta be 15 years old and a suburb ass kid to be fooled by the minority of posters who troll n say pac "wasnt bout that life till he was in his 20s" people in the hood know when someone fake as fukk round them, if you ever been in the hood or grew up round one or in one you would know this personally, and pac was a god in every hood in america

but yall suburb ass squares on this site and other sites like this try n twist it some other way

"you want it one way, buts its the other way" - marlo

thats how I feel bout yall nerds tryna down play pac in the hood n shyt..

dont know why im postin this now tho.. 7 pages later some real shyt like this just gonna get buried by the other nerds n squares postin false stupid shyt bout the best rapper ever

not everyone in the burbs is a square. Not everyone that is "fake" lives a clean life. Black folk gotta stop the stereotyping that you gotta be broke in the hood being "real" is the only way that we should be. People love Pac for what he did outside the studio than what he did on the mic. He made great music, yeah, but people need to stop making being a gangsta a requirement to be a good MC.