Liberals catching feelings over Clarence Thomas

[Drake is God]

Wow, one black person became a millionaire?????? REALLY?????? Wow, that is so cool, so she opened businesses, like the 1 percent, that employed minorities to make 1 percent of the capital that they produced...so how does one black person becoming a millionaire while the other 99 percent of the black population live in poverty or check to check prove your case?

And you still haven't demonstrated why capitalism is the best system when 99 percent of the nation makes only 1-5 percent of the capital they produce and are exploited in numerous ways in labor disputes....please tell me...

And the best system is traditional Marxist-Leninist system that Du Bois advocated...not the garbage that Stalin or Castro or the other idiots did...but traditional Marxism is the best place to start; we have to incorporate new technology, etc. but CAPITALISM DOES NOT WORK FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN 1 PERCENT OF THE NATION and there is no evidence to the contrary.

Have you even read Du Bois?[DOUBLEPOST=1397434260][/DOUBLEPOST]

You are an idiot if you don't know that the slave trade created capitalism. Sorry dude, but you don't understand economics or history. You aren't built for this conversation. Go back to fighting religious people with your bullshyt charts and graphs. let the real thinkers discuss things here.

She was an example... There are plenty of black people making thousands of dollars because of capitalism.

A socialist community is a body of people who do not compete with each, but who do compete with everyone else. No community can be complete to itself without greatly limiting its members in the means of life. What you want to do is rid capitalism and replace it with everyone competing over a limited supply just like they do in the competitive capitalism.

Socialism is a thing of the whole and can only be established by the whole, but in reality socialism cannot be established by the whole; it must establish itself, and it would take a long time to do that, and you cannot do away with competition by legislative because they majority believes in the limited supply, so we must keep conduct business under the present system, but cease competition.

 

[Saka]

You still haven't said answer my question about a better system. Why? because there isn't.

There was a black lady named Eula McClancy who started off as sharecropper and become a millionaire that wouldn't have happen in any other system.[DOUBLEPOST=1397433846][/DOUBLEPOST]

There was capitalism before the slave trade.

Championing an outlier as the standard of social mobility is a great way to sell people the idea of capitalism, because at its very core capitalism requires people to BELIEVE that they can better their condition. Congratulations you bought in

 

[Drake is God]

Championing an outlier as the standard of social mobility is a great way to sell people the idea of capitalism, because at its very core capitalism requires people to BELIEVE that they can better their condition. Congratulations you bought in

She was an example as I all ready said, and everyday people benefit from capitalist much like you and your family. Millionaire are not the only people benefiting from capitalism

 

[kp404]

She was an example... There are plenty of black people making thousands of dollars because of capitalism.

Thousands of dollars while the cost of living skyrockets and many cost of living adjustments around the nation have ceased? Those thousands of dollars are not enough and that's what keeps the 99 percent at the bottom. Plus, those thousands of dollars mean that not only can most families not afford college, houses, so they have to take out repressive and exploiting loans/interest rates (some can't because they only make "thousands of dollars"), but they also are only making one percent of the capital they actually produce; that capital they produce makes millions, sometimes billions for the owners. How is that a good system?

And the system of socialism you are speaking of is NOT Du Bois' Neo-Marxism. Have you read Du Bois? CLR James? If not, I suggest you do; I agree with you that Socialism is a long process, but the socialism you spoke of must incorporate the transformation of the political system, which I argue is essential to upholding expoitative capitalism. Remember, my argument is that capitalism in America is indeed racial and it hurts and violates the lives of the majority of Americans, especially black, brown, red, and yellow people here, black and red people for centuries.

And I do thank you for actually engaging in the discussion, even though we disagree, without totally dismissing arguments and the existence of the other side like @Napoleon does. He does that when he has no background on the topic and refuses to actually engage theoretical concepts outside of natural science.[DOUBLEPOST=1397436813][/DOUBLEPOST]

She was an example as I all ready said, and everyday people benefit from capitalist much like you and your family. Millionaire are not the only people benefiting from capitalism

See that's the problem. You think just because someone makes money they are benefitting from capitalism but its not true. The majority of Americans are working class; however, the cost of living in this capitalist and media driven, consumer obsessed nation is oppressive to the nation;

I don't see how you can argue that capitalism benefits anyone other than the ownership of production; the numbers argue that if you are not part of the ownership, you are being exploited for your labor and do not make even close to half of the surplus value you produce. So you live check to check with no raise and take out oppressive loans and crippling credit issues ensue just to live a decent life in this country.

 

[Drake is God]

Thousands of dollars while the cost of living skyrockets and many cost of living adjustments around the nation have ceased? Those thousands of dollars are not enough and that's what keeps the 99 percent at the bottom. Plus, those thousands of dollars mean that not only can most families not afford college, houses, so they have to take out repressive and exploiting loans/interest rates (some can't because they only make "thousands of dollars"), but they also are only making one percent of the capital they actually produce; that capital they produce makes millions, sometimes billions for the owners. How is that a good system?

And the system of socialism you are speaking of is NOT Du Bois' Neo-Marxism. Have you read Du Bois? CLR James? If not, I suggest you do; I agree with you that Socialism is a long process, but the socialism you spoke of must incorporate the transformation of the political system, which I argue is essential to upholding expoitative capitalism. Remember, my argument is that capitalism in America is indeed racial and it hurts and violates the lives of the majority of Americans, especially black, brown, red, and yellow people here, black and red people for centuries.

And I do thank you for actually engaging in the discussion, even though we disagree, without totally dismissing arguments and the existence of the other side like @Napoleon does. He does that when he has no background on the topic and refuses to actually engage theoretical concepts outside of natural science.[DOUBLEPOST=1397436813][/DOUBLEPOST]

See that's the problem. You think just because someone makes money they are benefitting from capitalism but its not true. The majority of Americans are working class; however, the cost of living in this capitalist and media driven, consumer obsessed nation is oppressive to the nation;

I don't see how you can argue that capitalism benefits anyone other than the ownership of production; the numbers argue that if you are not part of the ownership, you are being exploited for your labor and do not make even close to half of the surplus value you produce. So you live check to check with no raise and take out oppressive loans and crippling credit issues ensue just to live a decent life in this country.

Yes. It is quite true that if you are a workman in employed in a business you have very little chance of becoming the owner of the plant in which you work; because businesses In competitive capitalism(remember when I say capitalism can be used to violate people) exist to increase the owner's equity. These people are working from the idea that the supply of wealth is limited.

Wallace Wattles states that opportunity is open before the factory worker in his line. It is open before the business man who supplies the farmer more than before the one who supplies the factory worker; and before the professional man who waits upon the farmer more than before the one who serves the working class.

There is abundance of opportunity for the man who will go with the tide, instead of trying to swim against it.

So the factory workers, either as individuals or as a class, are not deprived of opportunity. The workers are not being "kept down" by their masters; they are not being "ground" by the trusts and combinations of capital. As a class, they are where they are because they do not do things in a Certain Way. If the workers of America chose to do so, they could follow the example of their brothers in Belgium and other countries, and establish great department stores and co-operative industries; they could elect men of their own class to office, and pass laws favoring the development of such co-operative industries; and in a few years they could take peaceable possession of the industrial field.

 

[kp404]

Yes. It is quite true that if you are a workman in employed in a business you have very little chance of becoming the owner of the plant in which you work; because businesses In competitive capitalism(remember when I say capitalism can be used to violate people) exist to increase the owner's equity. These people are working from the idea that the supply of wealth is limited.

Wallace Wattles states that opportunity is open before the factory worker in his line. It is open before the business man who supplies the farmer more than before the one who supplies the factory worker; and before the professional man who waits upon the farmer more than before the one who serves the working class.

There is abundance of opportunity for the man who will go with the tide, instead of trying to swim against it.

So the factory workers, either as individuals or as a class, are not deprived of opportunity. The workers are not being "kept down" by their masters; they are not being "ground" by the trusts and combinations of capital. As a class, they are where they are because they do not do things in a Certain Way. If the workers of America chose to do so, they could follow the example of their brothers in Belgium and other countries, and establish great department stores and co-operative industries; they could elect men of their own class to office, and pass laws favoring the development of such co-operative industries; and in a few years they could take peaceable possession of the industrial field.

They are where they are because racial capital oppression that began with the slave trade and continued to shift based on the changing political economy. You are assuming that the oppressed are oppressed based on their own will; that argument is ridiculous and illogical; when the capitalists control prices for things that are required to live in this country, then the system oppresses the people;

You may not know or have read Du Bois, but you really should read Black Reconstruction in America which is a race and capitalism critique that uses data to disprove your argument.

 

[Drake is God]

They are where they are because racial capital oppression that began with the slave trade and continued to shift based on the changing political economy. You are assuming that the oppressed are oppressed based on their own will; that argument is ridiculous and illogical; when the capitalists control prices for things that are required to live in this country, then the system oppresses the people;

You may not know or have read Du Bois, but you really should read Black Reconstruction in America which is a race and capitalism critique that uses data to disprove your argument.

I downloaded the pdf I'll deconstruct it tonight.