Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?

[tmonster]

@GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy! @Domingo Halliburton @Ill @DEAD7 are these guys always this dense?

They're just going to meme their way out of this, I guess.

The answer is always the MW and nothing else.

seriously you guys, I'm never here, is this how they are, seriously

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

seriously you guys, I'm never here, is this how they are, seriously

meme meme meme

 

[tmonster]

meme meme meme

 

[DEAD7]

Don't bring me back into this

 

[ill]

Why should I care about credentials if he lazily ignores outright flaws.

@Melbournelad 's video was very poorly rationalized

1. he ignores purchasing parity
2. he suggests that anyone displaced by MW increases (which I support to an extent) will 'eventually" find a "better paying" job.
3. he suggests that private companies should spend their moeny how he wants them to spend it
4. he thinks higher wages leads to higer spending and not saving.
5. he thinks that high spending leads to more jobs...not so clear to delineate.

I really enjoyed the part where he said most jobs are pegged to the MW and will go up proportionally. I had a laugh at that one.

Also liked the part where he said these people will all spend their money so yay economy! While ignoring that spending all their money shopping eliminates the whole point of helping them get ahead.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I really enjoyed the part where he said most jobs are pegged to the MW and will go up proportionally. I had a laugh at that one.

Also liked the part where he said these people will all spend their money so yay economy! While ignoring that spending all their money shopping eliminates the whole point of helping them get ahead.

I knew I couldn't be the only one who just had to stop the video and make sure I was listening to a reasonable man right there.

Hell, he might even be right...but he steamrolled through that shyt as if it was just some given axiom

 

[Broke Wave]

I really enjoyed the part where he said most jobs are pegged to the MW and will go up proportionally. I had a laugh at that one.

Also liked the part where he said these people will all spend their money so yay economy! While ignoring that spending all their money shopping eliminates the whole point of helping them get ahead.

Do you understand that theyre already spending that money, but theyre actually spending taxpayer money? And also credit card money? Do you see how an increase in spending could help an economy?

 

[88m3]

Do you understand that theyre already spending that money, but theyre actually spending taxpayer money? And also credit card money? Do you see how an increase in spending could help an economy?

Well generally they don't care about social contract, and they have no problem with corporate welfare(they'll of course claim otherwise). They also take issue with general welfare but in this instance it's more convenient to argue for repressed wages and governmental welfare as opposed to pay raises directly coming out of their pockets. I believe the crux of the issue for the majority against a living wage or minimum wage increases is that they (the middle classes) are mentally unable and unwilling to deal with the fact that they're also under payed and the fact of how close to poverty they are with their MW peers. Part of this also hinges on their own inability and unwillingness to argue for higher wages for themselves which they're very self aware of.

 

[Broke Wave]

Well generally they don't care about social contract, and they have no problem with corporate welfare(they'll of course claim otherwise). They also take issue with general welfare but in this instance it's more convenient to argue for repressed wages and governmental welfare as opposed to pay raises directly coming out of their pockets. I believe the crux of the issue for the majority against a living wage or minimum wage increases is that they (the middle classes) are mentally unable and unwilling to deal with the fact that they're also under payed and the fact of how close to poverty they are with their MW peers. Part of this also hinges on their own inability and unwillingness to argue for higher wages for themselves which they're very self aware of.

Exactly. Its definately a sociological issue... All theirnarguments hinge on paradigms of laziness and hard work. Obviously and thankfully, public policy from the Democratic side at least is not contingent on social engineering, so we are seeing the appropriate wage mandates in accordance with Nobel economists research.

 

[ghostwriterx]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Nobody has been able to demonstrate how MW would help with any of those things, or how it's a more important issue. It's a distraction and a means of exacting revenge/spite on people redistributionists don't like. It's literally no different from xenophobes calling for harsh treatment of immigrants or right wing extremists calling for harsh treatment of the poor. It has nothing to do with solving any problems, and everything to do with using the govt as a proxy for dealing blows to ideological scapegoats/enemies. So I'm tired of talking about that and other go-nowhere redistribution schemes. We can't tax or MW raise our way out of the problems the working class is facing, no matter how much people angrily claim otherwise.

I gave you an EXACT personal example of why having a living wage enables a family life that minimum wage does not allow. You just completely ignored it.

$15/hour would allow a family to make it with a single wageearner, so the kids can be raised and live productive lives. Non-living wages force both parents to work and force single parents to take multiple jobs, screwing over the children's development in many cases and fukking up future generations.

My father made less than $11 in the late 80s and early 90s (but over double minimum wage), and it was enough for us to get everything we needed in life. Just like $15/hour would be today.

When you have to resort to carichaturizing people you disagree with you lost.

The sad part is, aside from the "fukktard" aspect, your self-assessment is accurate.

at "you lost because that's just a caricature...but wait, it's actually perfectly accurate."

Doubling MW would do next to nothing to deal with income inequality. The bottom 20% of the country has a household income of 12K. Next bottom 20% makes 30K. Top 1% makes about 388K on average. So doubling MW would just make the bottom 20% earn 12x less than the top 1% instead of 30x.

Who in the world thinks that earning 12x less than the top 1%, rather than 30x less, wouldn't be a massive blow to income inequality?

Unless you're a communist and believe that all incomes should be equal (and that never happens even in communist countries), there's always going to be some income inequality. The difference between 12x and 30x is gargantuan...that would turn us into one of the more equal countries around.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I gave you an EXACT personal example of why having a living wage enables a family life that minimum wage does not allow. You just completely ignored it.

$15/hour would allow a family to make it with a single wageearner, so the kids can be raised and live productive lives. Non-living wages force both parents to work and force single parents to take multiple jobs, screwing over the children's development in many cases and fukking up future generations.

My father made less than $11 in the late 80s and early 90s (but over double minimum wage), and it was enough for us to get everything we needed in life. Just like $15/hour would be today.

I need you to define exactly what you are considering a family is, and what "making it" is, in the context of basic necessities like housing, healthcare, food and career boosting self investment like certificate training and higher education. Because like I showed (and NOBODY responded to) in some places a single person can own property, but in many places... I would argue most major cities.... $15/hr still prompts a financial strain. I would argue in MOST places $15/hr for a family of four is basically abject poverty.

Your dad was raising you in a time where everything was a lot cheaper adjusted for inflation. That $11 then was $20 now, unemployment was lower, and gas, housing, healthcare, higher education were all much much cheaper. Population was also smaller. Let's properly characterize our comparisons to the past.

at "you lost because that's just a caricature...but wait, it's actually perfectly accurate."

Yes, they caricaturized themselves, and painted an accurate picture.

Who in the world thinks that earning 12x less than the top 1%, rather than 30x less, wouldn't be a massive blow to income inequality?

Unless you're a communist and believe that all incomes should be equal (and that never happens even in communist countries), there's always going to be some income inequality. The difference between 12x and 30x is gargantuan...that would turn us into one of the more equal countries around.

Practically the difference is pretty insignificant though. 12x is still pretty much living in poverty. You are not building wealth or getting ahead on $30K a year unless you live out in the boonies and have no kids. That is pretty much the opposite of the situation most MW earners are in. Plus again income only counts cash.... with subsidies the folks with $12K in income are probably getting twice that. Nobody is actually living on nothing but $12K a year.

 

[Broke Wave]

@GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy! so just so we are clear... 7.25 is a good minimum wage in 2015?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I need you to define exactly what you are considering a family is, and what "making it" is, in the context of basic necessities like housing, healthcare, food and career boosting self investment like certificate training and higher education. Because like I showed (and NOBODY responded to) in some places a single person can own property, but in many places... I would argue most major cities.... $15/hr still prompts a financial strain. I would argue in MOST places $15/hr for a family of four is basically abject poverty.

Your dad was raising you in a time where everything was a lot cheaper adjusted for inflation. That $11 then was $20 now, unemployment was lower, and gas, housing, healthcare, higher education were all much much cheaper. Population was also smaller. Let's properly characterize our comparisons to the past.

I checked, and you're right that we probably fell closer to $20/hour in today's dollars. But we also were a family of 5, not a family of 4, and we were paying a mortgage on a home. And we weren't barely skirting by to any extent - none of us ever went hungry, none of us ever doubted that we'd go to college. I don't think that owning a home is necessary to be out of "abject poverty" - if a family of five can live a great life with a mortgage at $20/hour, then it seems quite likely that a family of four can get by pretty well renting at $15/hour....a hell of a lot better than they'd get by at $8-9/hour.

No one is saying that this solves every issue, or that $15/hour is a living wage in every metro area. High cost-of-living cities and states can and have passed their own minimum wage laws that are higher than the national laws. We're talking about $15/hour as being a nice baseline to start with, to begin to address one major problem - not as a solve-all to global poverty.

Practically the difference is pretty insignificant though. 12x is still pretty much living in poverty. You are not building wealth or getting ahead on $30K a year unless you live out in the boonies and have no kids. That is pretty much the opposite of the situation most MW earners are in. Plus again income only counts cash.... with subsidies the folks with $12K in income are probably getting twice that. Nobody is actually living on nothing but $12K a year.

$15/hour is a minimum baseline, not the goal for retirement. Someone earning $15/hour can pay their bills, take care of their family, get work experience, and keep from falling way behind...which will enable them eventually to get a promotion, get a better job, and THEN start building wealth and getting ahead.

You seem to have lost track of what "minimum wage" means. This is the starting place, not the destination. We just want a starting place that puts people in a position to take care of themselves and eventually move forward rather than falling further and further behind.

 

[88m3]

meme meme meme

troglodyte