Lyrics Debate. What Matters in an MC?

[Awesome Wells]

We've been havin' some dope debates in here over the past couple days over lyrics. And you see mad different opinions on what makes someone dope or better than someone else lyrically. But the reasons never really match up. And now the Nas/Jay debate is back too.

I remember back on SOHH, when cats actually had Canibus in their Top 5. Canibus!! LOL!! Dudes were talkin' about how dope he was lyrically and how "complex" his bars were. Is that what makes someone dope? But what about the Scarface's, or the Chuck D's and KRS's. I've seen cats say on here that these dudes are "too simple". But to me, they're some of the most commanding voices and lyricists this game has ever seen.

Drop an opinion though. What makes someone dope lyrically?

 

[Billy Ocean]

I believe there's too much emphasis put nowadays on wordplay. There's a ton of rippity rap, too clever for their own good MC's that are praised to the high heavens on the internet, that just don't make potent, timeless hip hop music. Outstanding mic presence, an attractive voice and storytelling ability are variables that are lacking in many highly touted MC's and that's why they'll probably never be in the annals of a KRS-One, Chuck D, Nas or any of the other MC legends. Guys like prime DMX, Beanie Sigel, The Game and Young Jeezy have qualities that just shine on record and that's why I place them above dudes like Slaughterhouse and Canibus. All that wordplay shyt may be impressive at times, but it does not solely make an MC a legendary MC.

 

[Awesome Wells]

My point exactly.

To me, mic presence is what none of these cats seem to have. I just listened to KRS' verse from "Brainstorm" on Lord Finesse's The Awakening and he KILLED track, and wasn't runnin' no lyrical gymnastics. Dudes on here are so quick to hop on whatever sounds "complex", but cats never point out that a whole buncha nothing is being said.

 

[Billy Ocean]

My point exactly.

To me, mic presence is what none of these cats seem to have. I just listened to KRS' verse from "Brainstorm" on Lord Finesse's The Awakening and he KILLED track, and wasn't runnin' no lyrical gymnastics. Dudes on here are so quick to hop on whatever sounds "complex", but cats never point out that a whole buncha nothing is being said.

Absolutely. If you were to take a look at the MC's who are generally brought up in GOAT discussions, not many of them were/are big on verses with complex wordplay and polysyllabic bars. Pac, Scarface, Biggie, Ghostface, Slick Rick, LL, Ice Cube, Big Daddy Kane and a slew of other top tier MC's didn't rely on that to craft classic tracks/albums. It's a mixture of mic presence, voice, flow, storytelling ability, etc...that made their MC'ing legendary. Don't get me wrong...most of them have verses/tracks that displayed lingual complexity, but that ability did not make them hip hop icons.

 

[Pop123]

you know that feeling you get when you are hearing somebody spit something crazy? you get that head nod goin, you making the scrunched up face, all that, that's how i gauge a dope mc personally, that's what matters. you don't have to be super lyrical and super technical honestly, it's all about that "it" factor, most nikkas just don't have it. maybe like 7 mc's have given me that feeling consistently, canibus did for like a year, lol, smh

 

[Rem]

I believe there's too much emphasis put nowadays on wordplay. There's a ton of rippity rap, too clever for their own good MC's that are praised to the high heavens on the internet, that just don't make potent, timeless hip hop music. Outstanding mic presence, an attractive voice and storytelling ability are variables that are lacking in many highly touted MC's and that's why they'll probably never be in the annals of a KRS-One, Chuck D, Nas or any of the other MC legends. Guys like prime DMX, Beanie Sigel, The Game and Young Jeezy have qualities that just shine on record and that's why I place them above dudes like Slaughterhouse and Canibus. All that wordplay shyt may be impressive at times, but it does not solely make an MC a legendary MC.

Yessir, and to divert away from hiphop, some of the all time greatest songs, reading the lyrics on paper they look simple as hell.

In design, there's a saying that goes "simplicity is the hardest design principle to follow".

I do a lot of technical writing and I find it's a lot harder when I have to incorporate a lot of points into a short, simple and concise report.

 

[Billy Ocean]

you know that feeling you get when you are hearing somebody spit something crazy? you get that head nod goin, you making the scrunched up face, all that, that's how i gauge a dope mc personally, that's what matters. maybe like 7 mc's have given me that feeling consistently. canibus did for like a year, lol, smh

Yea, Canibus circa 98-99 was probably one of the nastiest rappers I've ever heard in my life, but the dude didn't last because he couldn't craft universally engaging tracks. As nasty as he was around that time, he still has ZERO classic tracks (unless you're gonna count 2nd Round K.O., which I think is a dope battle rao, but not a classic hip hop track). Something was lacking and it wasn't just because he didn't have the best production. In comparison, look at DMX, an MC who debuted nationally at around the same time. X has timeless tracks and albums considered near classic/classic.

 

[10:31]

breath control

flow

charisma

voice

Stage Presence

Creativity

Energy

rhyme pattern


word play

If you can master at least three and be strong lyrically your going far...

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

In my perfect world, content is tied with beats...you don't have to be the most complex lyrically, but I do look for varied content, you gotta be saying something to me for a good portion of the album to get my accolades (think Pac, albums always had strong content, but he wasn't a wordsmith). After those two, its delivery/flow....then lyrical skills...then rhyme scheme

 

[Hyman Roth]

In 2013: Flow, presence, wordplay and a cool ad-lib (sadly in this order too).

 

[Billy Ocean]

What does the average rap fan consider "lyrical skill"? See, I believe that Biggie was a lyrical genius (one of the greatest lyricists ever imo) and most of, quite possibly all, of his legendary verses were void of complex rhyme schemes. I always laugh when somebody would make a thread about Biggie not being lyrical because his rhymes, on paper, looked elementary compared to someone like a Rakim or Black Thought.

 

[10:31]

Krs One's energy, voice, wordplay/Wit

Rakim's wordplay, and voice

Nas' wordplay and charisma (especially early on, Nas would swag on tracks with charisma)

Jay-Z's charisma and flow

Biggie's charisma, flow, wordplay

Jadakiss' wordplay, voice

Eminem, voice, wordplay, energy

Snoop Dogg's charisma, wordplay, flow, energy

DMX's voice, charisma, energy

Scarface's voice, creativity, flow

Big Pun's wordplay and charisma

Master P charisma and re-creation of others creativity, stage presence



These new MCs

Kendrick's wordplay and creativity

Drake's flow, wordplay, harmonization, charisma

Lil Wayne's wordplay, creativity, energy


Lupe's wordplay, creativity, flow

Kanye's creativity

Rick Ross's charisma, energy, flow

 

[DANJ!]

It's a combination of things that makes a great MC. A nikka can have all the vocab in the world but it's nothing if they lack flow. Or he can have flow but nothing solid lyric-wise. Or they can be saying some real potent shyt but just happen to sound boring as fukk. But anyone who can pull it all together is gonna be . And of course, some are stronger in certain areas than others- Slick Rick was great but wasn't as "lyrical" as a Rakim, Kool G Rap was great with the words but didn't have the charisma of a Kane... but like homie above said, if an MC is strong in a few categories and not lacking in the others, they're good to go.

It's definitely not all about what the shyt looks like on paper, cause I've seen some great rhymes on paper that ain't worth listening to in stereo. I had to figure this out myself too when I used to rap, cause I was one of them super lyrical miracle nikkas at one point... then the more I learned it wasn't all about just writing something complex, I got a LOT better. Because another thing that's important as an MC is making sure the listener gives a fukk. I've seen a lotta nikkas get mad on some "I got john blaze shyt and they not recognizin" tip, but if you don't know how to present your shyt, it's not gonna matter how much brain power you used to write it.

 

[gho3st]

at dudes trying to re-define what a "great MC" so they can call ()MagnaCarta great.



There's no set definitions of what makes a great MC. You know good music when you hear it.

 

[the rhyme king]

to me

multisyllable rhyme patterns
metaphors
wordplay
punchlines
flow
hooks

u have to be good at least 4 out of the 6.