Lyrics Debate. What Matters in an MC?

[LucaBrasi]

Content, Creativity, Flow, Cadance and most importantly song making ability, what a lot of rap fans fail to realize IMO is that you can have a song full of "multis" metaphors punchlines and wordplay but if you can't make a good song then you

 

[Awesome Wells]

What does the average rap fan consider "lyrical skill"? See, I believe that Biggie was a lyrical genius (one of the greatest lyricists ever imo) and most of, quite possibly all, of his legendary verses were void of complex rhyme schemes. I always laugh when somebody would make a thread about Biggie not being lyrical because his rhymes, on paper, looked elementary compared to someone like a Rakim or Black Thought.

Perfect example would be "Kick in The Door".

Looks so simple on paper, but when you hear it, that's just godly MCin' there. Black Thought is lyrically untouchable, but he's got a ridiculous flow too. So like you said earlier, there are so many components that play their role in it.

 

[Obtain Knowledge]

Great thread, Awesome Wells.

There's a combination of things or rather attributes that matters in an MC and what makes them great lyrically. An MC doesn't have to be complex or "super lyrical" if there's an easier way to get his/her point across but yet write a song that "works" or serves it's purpose. In fact, it could be a set back if there's an easier to write a song without being all complex or "super lyrical" and be more effective. It's all about communication with the audience, how they connect. There many ways to do it. The great ones can do it.

 

[Zach Lowe]

Delivery first
Flow second
Lyrics last

 

[MegaTronBomb!]

To me, how well you get your message across matters more than how you choose to say it.

crafting a song about the prison industrial complex, and the history of racial profiling,corruption,and predatory tactics of the police force isn't gonna resonate with people like "fukk The Police" has.

i see MC'ing like i see talking to females... It's not what you say, it's how you say it...and it doesn't matter what you're saying, if you come off as a cornball and can't keep somebodys attention

some people just have natural abilities to command peoples attention, and being able to rap the dictionary back to front can't give you that.

i'd go

Mic Presence
Delivery
Overall personality
Lyrical Effectiveness
Lyrical technical ability

in that order.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Great thread, Awesome Wells.

There's a combination of things or rather attributes that matters in an MC and what makes them great lyrically. An MC doesn't have to be complex or "super lyrical" if there's an easier way to get his/her point across but yet write a song that "works" or serves it's purpose. In fact, it could be a set back if there's an easier to write a song without being all complex or "super lyrical" and be more effective. It's all about communication with the audience, how they connect. There many ways to do it. The great ones can do it.

Thanks, my dude.

Spoke with some friends about it, and we brought up Bahamadia. If you ever heard Kollage, you'd see that she could easily rap circles around any female MC on paper. But her cadence is so dull, and her delivery is so subdued, it kills her presence. I copped that album back in like '96, and thought she was incredible, but no one else dug her. LOL!! But peep..

"Flam, combustion thrustin'/
new versions of verses over kids heads like halos/
bendin' they brain cells like indo/
"n-o-va-shun' definition/
Different renditions of creations/
sorta like what I'm doin'/
style that I'm usin'/
wordsmith meets rap fusion/
if that's a category fit for/
grammy like Source Awards then com-pet-tit-tors bet-tor/
look out like Pack Jam once I record/
"n-o-v-a-shun" the first, to influx information no relation/
to wackness instead pedantic/
combating prose/
With passionate passages/
surpassing the realm of gun to-ting savages/
However, able da serve them like Mr. Belvedere once confronted/
they don't ever want it/
cuz I got my Freestyle Fellowship membership but I will still get fit to, Ace-ya-alone"

She was ill! Then when you hear the joint, if you're not an actual fan of hers like I was, she'd put you to sleep.

Like you said, the great ones can do both. I always bring up Chuck D because he's as simple as it gets lyrically, but you won't find a more powerful delivery or presence.

 

[Rice N Beans]

Yea, Canibus circa 98-99 was probably one of the nastiest rappers I've ever heard in my life, but the dude didn't last because he couldn't craft universally engaging tracks. As nasty as he was around that time, he still has ZERO classic tracks (unless you're gonna count 2nd Round K.O., which I think is a dope battle rao, but not a classic hip hop track). Something was lacking and it wasn't just because he didn't have the best production. In comparison, look at DMX, an MC who debuted nationally at around the same time. X has timeless tracks and albums considered near classic/classic.

This i probably one of the saddest things I've encountered with the music. Canibus had so much fukking promise, so much talent, so much fukking skill, and he couldn't make a decent album to save his life.

People like Redman could actually make a nice track with that battle rap lean, conjure up really slick albums, but for some reason Bis just couldn't muster that among his peers.

 

[Obtain Knowledge]

Thanks, my dude.

Spoke with some friends about it, and we brought up Bahamadia. If you ever heard Kollage, you'd see that she could easily rap circles around any female MC on paper. But her cadence is so dull, and her delivery is so subdued, it kills her presence. I copped that album back in like '96, and thought she was incredible, but no one else dug her. LOL!! But peep..

"Flam, combustion thrustin'/
new versions of verses over kids heads like halos/
bendin' they brain cells like indo/
"n-o-va-shun' definition/
Different renditions of creations/
sorta like what I'm doin'/
style that I'm usin'/
wordsmith meets rap fusion/
if that's a category fit for/
grammy like Source Awards then com-pet-tit-tors bet-tor/
look out like Pack Jam once I record/
"n-o-v-a-shun" the first, to influx information no relation/
to wackness instead pedantic/
combating prose/
With passionate passages/
surpassing the realm of gun to-ting savages/
However, able da serve them like Mr. Belvedere once confronted/
they don't ever want it/
cuz I got my Freestyle Fellowship membership but I will still get fit to, Ace-ya-alone"

She was ill! Then when you hear the joint, if you're not an actual fan of hers like I was, she'd put you to sleep.

Like you said, the great ones can do both. I always bring up Chuck D because he's as simple as it gets lyrically, but you won't find a more powerful delivery or presence.

Co sign

Man, you just took me back with this song. I haven't listened to it in years!

I agree with everything you said though. In fact, I can give you a flip side to this coin.

MC Eiht is one of my all time favorite rappers (speaking on his 90's material mostly, lol). Sure, he wasn't the most "lyrical" rapper but it was his voice, flow, delivery, cadence, --- all of those things that make up a great presence on the mic. Dude just had that "it" that made everything he spit work so nice. Nothing he ever spits is complex or "super lyrical" yet it worked.

His song "All for the Money" is a perfect example of this:

 

[Awesome Wells]

Co sign

Man, you just took me back with this song. I haven't listened to it in years!

I agree with everything you said though. In fact, I can give you a flip side to this coin.

MC Eiht is one of my all time favorite rappers (speaking on his 90's material mostly, lol). Sure, he wasn't the most "lyrical" rapper but it was his voice, flow, delivery, cadence, --- all of those things that make up a great presence on the mic. Dude just had that "it" that made everything he spit work so nice. Nothing he ever spits is complex or "super lyrical" yet it worked.

His song "All for the Money" is a perfect example of this:

MC Eiht - All For The Money - YouTube

Yeah, Eiht was the shyt back then! His flow was serious!

I copped that album back then, just for the Redman feature at first, LOL!! But that whole joint had some shyt on it.

 

[jsmiller]

Flow

 

[Awesome Wells]

Flow

Jay-Z - Flow - YouTube

I remember that interview. Very dope.

Speakin' of flow. Peep this joint from Chi Ali's album. I used to play this shyt religiously back in like the 3rd grade. First couple of verses from Dres, Dave from De La and Fashion from Beatnuts are perfect examples of three different very effective flows over the same beat. Such a dope track. Personal classic from Native Tongues.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6cP1vjq7lI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6cP1vjq7lI[/ame]

 

[Obtain Knowledge]

Yeah, Eiht was the shyt back then! His flow was serious!

I copped that album back then, just for the Redman feature at first, LOL!! But that whole joint had some shyt on it.

Yes sir!

"Nuthin' But the Gangsta" was excellent. Red, Eiht, Spice and that dark a$$ beat?!

Man, I've got to bump this sh*t now, lol.

 

[JuvenileHell]

What does the average rap fan consider "lyrical skill"? See, I believe that Biggie was a lyrical genius (one of the greatest lyricists ever imo) and most of, quite possibly all, of his legendary verses were void of complex rhyme schemes. I always laugh when somebody would make a thread about Biggie not being lyrical because his rhymes, on paper, looked elementary compared to someone like a Rakim or Black Thought.

I think what made Big great was his delivery (his god tier flow goes without saying of course). It was how he said those rhymes that made them stick, and quotables, not so much what he said.

Stuff like "If the head right, I'll be there erry night" isn't all that on paper, but the way Big said it was smooth as butter, and made it an ill line. Delivery is a bit underestimated, which is funny because it was being able to delivery your rhymes in a ill way was what made guys like Pac and Prodigy great.

 

[JuvenileHell]

But to answer the thread I would say

Mic Presence
Flow
Delivery
Lyrics

If you're good at any 3 of those you're set, the mic presence must be there though.