Meninists/MRAs...

[Unknown Poster]

You back @1984? @mbewane, I'm not gonna quote your entire post but I'm not falling for the oke doke that MRAS pull.

*For a limited time only.

And im not buying this "cause" either. Seems very transparent.

 

[mbewane]

You back @1984? @mbewane, I'm not gonna quote your entire post but I'm not falling for the oke doke that MRAS pull. They didn't give a fukk when these issues were affecting black kids but now they want to speak up now that it's in their backyard like heroin. I'm not saying your post isn't valid but I see through their bullshyt.

TBH I have no idea whatsoever what MRAS is but I heard about "meninist" sites before. My point was kind of more of a general rant and emphasizing that some type of reaction was bound to happen at some point, but since it's has become such a delicate issue not many dare to talk about it, and def not people who would otherwise be considered "open", "tolerant", "well-thought", etc. So that "field" is left to these people, and I'm not surprised one bit they didn't care about black kids.

The real problem is that since it's precisely these kind of people who bring up such issues (because they obviously could care less about being PC), these issues risk being swept under the rug or dismissed on some "Oh, so you agree with them, you're as crazy/racist/whatever as they are" while some of the issues raised are real.

 

[mbewane]

All of this applies to "meninism" and a lot of what is called racial equality too though. Society today is all about self-victimization

I do find the whole MRA thing to be ridiculous though. Men are physically stronger, make more money, are encouraged to pursue whatever we want for careers or anything, celebrated for engaging in reckless behavior, etc. etc. The only thing MRAs need protection from is their own mediocrity; regardless of whatever men still pretty much have the world handed to us on a silver platter.

As I said in another post, tbh I don't even know what MRA is.

My post was about how issues specifically affecting boys and men are not treated as such. I personnaly have never been encouraged to pursue anything, while my generation of women have grown up in the empowerment of women era. Now you can say that men are stronger, but strenght and anything linked to physicality is more often than not frowned upon now. In certain areas and level of work women make as much if not more than men now, and again outperform men in college. Me personnaly I've never even dated a girl that won less than I do, all my bosses have been women, so why am I personnaly asked to take a stand for my boss for example? On the other side I've struggled to find jobs precisely because in everything concerning "social" and "non-profit" work women are put in the forefront. And on the flip side, no one links the fact that lots of boys are feeling lost out there precisely because the "role" of men has all but disappeared, while the "role" of women has been reinvented.

Hell even where I work I was considering applying for a position and a guy close to the situation told me that it would be an uphill battle because they were leaning towards employing a woman for "parity" reasons. Mind you : it's already 70 % women where I work.

My ex who works in this field told me that some are starting to be conscious of this issue, but most feel like it's a sort of revenge and that men have had it "good" for long enough. Feminisits who raise these issues aren't really listened to.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

As I said in another post, tbh I don't even know what MRA is.

My post was about how issues specifically affecting boys and men are not treated as such. I personnaly have never been encouraged to pursue anything, while my generation of women have grown up in the empowerment of women era. Now you can say that men are stronger, but strenght and anything linked to physicality is more often than not frowned upon now. In certain areas and level of work women make as much if not more than men now, and again outperform men in college. Me personnaly I've never even dated a girl that won less than I do, all my bosses have been women, so why am I personnaly asked to take a stand for my boss for example? On the other side I've struggled to find jobs precisely because in everything concerning "social" and "non-profit" work women are put in the forefront. And on the flip side, no one links the fact that lots of boys are feeling lost out there precisely because the "role" of men has all but disappeared, while the "role" of women has been reinvented.

Hell even where I work I was considering applying for a position and a guy close to the situation told me that it would be an uphill battle because they were leaning towards employing a woman for "parity" reasons. Mind you : it's already 70 % women where I work.

My ex who works in this field told me that some are starting to be conscious of this issue, but most feel like it's a sort of revenge and that men have had it "good" for long enough. Feminisits who raise these issues aren't really listened to.

There are some legitimate issues. The education one is a biggie. Boys and girls behave differently and boys differences are treated as "behavioral issues". That shyt holds them back. The rest though? U work in an anomalous field- a field dominated by women. On average most fields are still led by men. Men are the managers and CEOs, men are further along in their careers than women, etc etc. Not saying there are no issues for men but they are much rarer, and in any case if your response to shedding light on women's problems is to say "b-b-but we have problems too!" you are low key validating over-feminists.

 

[Won Won]

 

[Won Won]

 

[EndDomination]

The problem of "gender equality" is that feminists only focus on women issues. That would be like advocates of racial equality only focuing on the issues of ONE race. The thing is that issues related to men are never adressed, even though now in most developped countries young boys are encountering a series of problems because girls have been pushed to the forefront (all the while hearing how "beautiful, precious, intelligent and powerful they are) while boys have been left to, well, carry on (all the while hearing how they are basically potential rapists, murderers, cheaters and somehow responsible for thousands of years of patriarchy). Read an article about Sweden (again) is breaking the taboo and now conducting research on boy issues.

ANYTHING that happens to a girl or a woman will be considered under the gender lense : bad relationship, low pay, low self-esteem, unemployment, health issues, etc. Everything will be analysed with the premise of what is happening to her is because she's a woman, and thus all kinds of support mecanisms/explanations come in. But NOTHING that happens to a boy or a man will considered under the gender lense. If boys are being killed in gang wars, drop out of school by the masses, or rely on drugs/alcohol to get by, or are in non-satisfying relationships, it's just "boys being boys" or "whatever". Boys are now lagging girls in most academics areas, but obviously it's not considered a gender issue. Actually, it's considered an achievement of gender policies.

As long as you promote "gender equality" and fight against "sexism" while only considering one side of that "equality", you're bound to have a reaction from the other side.

You fukked up as soon as you said that.
Feminists are for women's issues.
Hence the "fem-"
If you want to focus on men's issues, especially in the third-world, do so.
How do you manage to be willfully obtuse for two straight paragraphs?

 

[EndDomination]

Basically consists of majority nerdy white dudes who didn't get p*ssy when they were in high school and college cause they were "nice guys" and listened to all the people who said things will get better when they start making money. When they end up graduating and realize no amount of money can make up for their 2/10 personalities they shift the blame back to women. No different than some of the weirdos on thecoli that post about women like they're a fukking monolith.

I'm guessing the WS roots aren't surprising considering how many white men out there aren't eating and wanna blame their failures on everything except themselves.

This.

 

[mbewane]

There are some legitimate issues. The education one is a biggie. Boys and girls behave differently and boys differences are treated as "behavioral issues". That shyt holds them back. The rest though? U work in an anomalous field- a field dominated by women. On average most fields are still led by men. Men are the managers and CEOs, men are further along in their careers than women, etc etc. Not saying there are no issues for men but they are much rarer, and in any case if your response to shedding light on women's problems is to say "b-b-but we have problems too!" you are low key validating over-feminists.

The fact that issues for men are "much rarer" is because they are not labelled as such, imo. For example, as I stated before, crime and drug use, etc, are not considered as "men issues", but as security issues. But who is most concerned by both? Young men. On the other hand, when considering rising drug use by women it's linked to their situation as women. That's what I'm talking about, I'm not saying that men have as many issues as women but that soem "men issues" are not adressed as such.

Another example (all of this comes from talks with my ex, who's a feminist and works in "gender equality" field) : when rape in war areas is adressed, it is specifically adressed as a woman issue. But men are raped too in war areas, some women soldier rape too (or perform sexual mutilations on men...or on other women) and the rapist is sometimes...boys who are FORCED to rape members of their family. Yet no one talks about that aspect. Does stating that this also exists diminish the validity of feminist claims? No, it ADDS something to the discussion, without substracting validity to feminists views.

 

[mbewane]

You fukked up as soon as you said that.
Feminists are for women's issues.
Hence the "fem-"
If you want to focus on men's issues, especially in the third-world, do so.
How do you manage to be willfully obtuse for two straight paragraphs?

Feminists claim they work for "gender equality", which makes little sense to me because they focus on only one side of gender issues.

FYI, even development "aid" has recognized that only focusing on women is counterproductive because, well, there are men too in what you call "the thrid-world" (=developping countries).

 

[plushcarpet]

i think the main point of men's rights activists (the sane ones) is that men today would put themselves in shackles if it meant getting p*ssy

deny it all you want, but in the west, women have a lot more power nowadays
when you control the dating and sex game, you hold all the cards

the biggest issues feminists can come up with are things like "there aren't enough female computer programmers!" meanwhile men are committing suicide at an alarming rate because they're expected to be men but also not allowed to be men

 

[iFightSeagullsForBread]

Feminists claim they work for "gender equality", which makes little sense to me because they focus on only one side of gender issues.

FYI, even development "aid" has recognized that only focusing on women is counterproductive because, well, there are men too in what you call "the thrid-world" (=developping countries).

This is like someone getting mad at the fact a Black Humanist organization is focusing soley on issues concerning the black community.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Does stating that this also exists diminish the validity of feminist claims?

Sure, at least in my experience. These issues for men only seem to be brought up as a response to discussions about women's issues, rather than in isolation, which unfortunately undermines the credibility of the people making the complaints.

 

[mbewane]

This is like someone getting mad at the fact a Black Humanist organization is focusing soley on issues concerning the black community.

Actually I realized I haven't been clear in the terms I'm using. I'm not mad at women being feminists (and thus logically I'm not mad at men being "meninists"). What I might be "mad" at is feminists saying they work on gender issues, since "gender" implies both male and female, while they only focus on women issues.

It's like if I said I'm against racism, but only focus on racism against Blacks. Nope, I'm against ALL FORMS of racism. That's why I don't say I'm a feminist, but rather anti-sexist. Like I'm not "Blackist", but anti-racism.

 

[mbewane]

Sure, at least in my experience. These issues for men only seem to be brought up as a response to discussions about women's issues, rather than in isolation, which unfortunately undermines the credibility of the people making the complaints.

I have a different experience, notably with open-minded feminists (my ex and a very good friend's gf, both working on feminism and "gender equality") and they both acknowledged than men issues exist but are sorely undervalued and pushed to the curb. Feminism is like every other political movement, so obviously you will have open-minded feminists and more close-minded ones. Hell both of them tell me they can't stand most feminists and are looking to get out of that environment

I agree that men issues have appeared as a "response" to women issues, but ask yourself : why? Because boys are taught to suppress their feelings, their anxieties, their emotions and to be strong, move on, "man up" etc. Those are exactly the type of "roles" and stereotypes feminists rightfully work against when it concerns women. Why can't the same be done for men? When men open up and show their weaknesses, they're "pussies", "simps", "not real men", etc. If you say to a woman she's not a real woman for whatever reason, it's sexist. If you say to a man he isn't a real man for whatever reason, it isn't. Why?