"Middle Class" Blacks in the United States

[NYC Rebel]

Where did he say racism doesn't exist?

What is this POV exactly, and how is his aggregation any more/less valid than yours?

What is my POV, since you've already taken on the role of being my spokesman.

I can site how even the most educated people in the country (Nigerians) rarely find managerial positions although they're more than qualified. The same with Asians.

Look at the statistics and the experiences of a groups overall if you're going to talk about a class, not just your personal experience.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

No, thats not what I'm doing at all.

People like you are assuming you and he have the same experiences, but he chooses to downplay + ignore said experiences either to shyt on his own people or appease whitey. When in reality, just as the point of this whole article states repeatedly, all black folks don't share the same experiences, and said experiences are probably easier to classify + generalize on the basis of class than race

Where he + everyone else fail is in using personal anecdotes as basis for broad sweeping statements. Had he come out w/some statistical meat- correlations between class and police brutality, correlations between class and the quality of education, etc, that would have been a better approach. But I think its safe to say a black man living in Fort Greene today is much less likely to face any of the institutional racism one would face in Flatbush, or even Fort Green 10-20 years ago. Those differences run counter to the monolithic black experience folks us to rationalize their world views

I didn't say he experienced the same racism as me. But even in this article when he speaks of the racism he has experienced he downplays it and makes excuses for it. Yet he makes no excuses for people who react to the racism, or those who he feels are the biggest victims of racism.

 

[Blackking]

You're a fukking douche bag but I'll indulge you for a minute.

lol

 

[Non Sequitur]

Nah but this guy was truth. He was bout that life. Full fledged orgies...

Smashing guest wives during dinner, then later bragging about it.

Taking money from the elite and giving to the poor.

helped those who had been harmed by the Imperial tax system

Appointing his horse as head of council

Throwing rich people into ring to fight against lions...

Sending his army to the beach to pick up sea shells

Taking away privileges from the Senators.

I could go on and on, but this man was very based...

I see, I see...lead poisoned swag

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

What is my POV, since you've already taken on the role of being my spokesman.

I can site how even the most educated people in the country (Nigerians) rarely find managerial positions although they're more than qualified. The same with Asians.

Look at the statistics and the experiences of a groups overall if you're going to talk about a class, not just your personal experience.

How is asking you to clarify your position speaking for you?

And educations are a kind of qualification, but not the only one. Much of corporate America is results driven; if you have educational qualifications but no experience folks will be less apt to hire you than someone "less qualified" but w/a resume containing relevant experience. Its no different than for American kids who have masters + doctorates and can't find jobs. Experience counts. Were these candidates overqualified on all fronts or just education?

I didn't say he experienced the same racism as me. But even in this article when he speaks of the racism he has experienced he downplays it and makes excuses for it. Yet he makes no excuses for people who react to the racism, or those who he feels are the biggest victims of racism.

I don't think he downplayed it. He didn't apologize for it. Just tried to look at the reasoning + thought process that led up to it. And how did he downplay the racism exhibited by the dude from Jersey? He confronted him to the point that dude had to back down

Racism isn't right, but if you don't examine the mechanisms behind it and confront it from an objective POV how can you ever address it? Its no different from any other problem in that jumping at it emotionally will only make it worse

 

[kermit da hustla]

once he said that he never experienced racist slights in his four decades as a middle class black, i knew the rest of this piece was bullshyt. had me going

 

[Huellz Santana]

if the got damn PRESIDENT, who is only half black, well mannered, well spoken, light skinned, educated, and a good family man can get called a ****** and a monkey how can any black man in this country feel like it couldnt happen to them?



my ex's uncle tom ass uncle is like the dude in teh article. he got laid off from his job of 20 years due to some racism shyt. all of his family was like cuz now he sees it. smh​

 

[NYC Rebel]

How is asking you to clarify your position speaking for you?

And educations are a kind of qualification, but not the only one. Much of corporate America is results driven; if you have educational qualifications but no experience folks will be less apt to hire you than someone "less qualified" but w/a resume containing relevant experience. Its no different than for American kids who have masters + doctorates and can't find jobs. Experience counts

And you say you need statistics to generalize... again then why post an anecdote to justify your generalizations?

I'm speaking on the experiences of those hired, qualified and face the glass ceiling which when looking at figures, seems to define itself through lines of race.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I don't think he downplayed it. He didn't apologize for it. Just tried to look at the reasoning + thought process that led up to it. And how did he downplay the racism exhibited by the dude from Jersey? He confronted him to the point that dude had to back down

Racism isn't right, but if you don't examine the mechanisms behind it and confront it from an objective POV how can you ever address it? Its no different from any other problem in that jumping at it emotionally will only make it worse

My point is he doesn't try to "look at the reasoning+thought process" of why some black people feel the way they do. He reacts emotinaly to the criticism he receives by black people, but not the racism he's a victim to. Nor does he try to anylize why some people have different experiences than him. Again he downplays the fact that he's light skinned and totaly clean cut as if those that aren't deserve the racist treatment they receive.

 

[boskey]

if the got damn PRESIDENT, who is only half black, well mannered, well spoken, light skinned, educated, and a good family man can get called a ****** and a monkey how can any black man in this country feel like it couldnt happen to them?


​

The other side to this argument is that...he's the president of the United States. He won. At the end of the day how important are the folks calling him a ****** and monkey? Emotion vs. Actual results.

Emotion deals with the "angry black" or "victim" stereotype. Actual results deals with the institutionalized sh!t like the glass ceiling Reb is talking about.

 

[Huellz Santana]

The other side to this argument is that...he's the president of the United States. He won. At the end of the day how important are the folks calling him a ****** and monkey? Emotion vs. Actual results.

Emotion deals with the "angry black" or "victim" stereotype. Actual results deals with the institutionalized sh!t like the glass ceiling Reb is talking about.

i disagree. they go hand in hand.
​

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I'm speaking on the experiences of those hired, qualified and face the glass ceiling which when looking at figures, seems to define itself through lines of race.

That is possible, but there are a couple of factors that might color your view

Your industry might be the problem. I know a lot of high level black engineering managers. I got my first job through a black Con Ed district manager. My brother in law is an engineering manager at my current company. One of my friends just got promoted to 1 level below executives and he is only 29. Does that mean there isn't a problem? No, but its not like that in every industry.

Secondly there are only so many high level positions. Most people don't become executives or even managers. Most people feel like they are overqualified for their positions. So to really establish a valid generalization you need a comprehensive study spanning different industries and regions.

Thirdly I'm not saying it is or isnt the case but its possible you have determined there is a problem without actually gather the evidence to say its the case. Its called confirmation bias

My point is he doesn't try to "look at the reasoning+thought process" of why some black people feel the way they do. He reacts emotinaly to the criticism he receives by black people, but not the racism he's a victim to.

Yea he did, right in the third paragraph.

Nor does he try to anylize why some people have different experiences than him.

Yea he did, by citing his socioeconomic standing & places of residence. The whole thesis of the paper is, whether you agree or not, and which I'm not saying is or isn't correct, that he hasn't experienced the kind of racism many cite as being the norm for the black experience in America, largely due to how and where he grew up + lived

Whether you want to believe his experiences actually happened or not is really on you; but if you're not even willing to entertain that dude's experiences happened as they are why even bother discussing the paper?

Again he downplays the fact that he's light skinned and totaly clean cut as if those that aren't deserve the racist treatment they receive.

Where did he even imply that?

 

[Serious]

My point is he doesn't try to "look at the reasoning+thought process" of why some black people feel the way they do. He reacts emotinaly to the criticism he receives by black people, but not the racism he's a victim to. Nor does he try to anylize why some people have different experiences than him. Again he downplays the fact that he's light skinned and totaly clean cut as if those that aren't deserve the racist treatment they receive.

And my experience was that when I was about sixteen, a black friend and I dropped into a tiny Slavic bookstore in Philadelphia[ because I, as a language freak, was just intrigued by the place. The woman behind the register, a probably Polish-born middle-aged woman, was obviously terrified, and the store was so tiny that her displeasure was overwhelmingly present to us, to the point that we left the store. But that was not quite what most blacks complain of. After all, it was likely extremely rare that young black men entered that store, and what's more, it was just on the edge of a sketchy black neighborhood, such that we might suppose that the woman assumed that since aging books in Polish are rarely of interest to young black men (or most Americans), we might have been in there to rob her. I know I am supposed to simply decry her as "stereotyping" but I cannot. She was just human, reacting to a highly unexpected presence in a store located in a bad neighborhood, and as a foreigner from a country where blacks are virtually nonexistent, unlikely to be attuned to the factors of dress and demeanor distinguishing class among blacks.

I can't really highlight anything, because every sentence is important....

Like mentioned in the original post, just going by the highlights, doesn't tell the story at all. In order to understand his pov you have to read the whole article...

What i don't agree with is the last sentence, this comes off extra c00nish. It screams: look at me
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX1wbUs_HPA"]2 Chainz - I'm Different - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I mean, basically, people have foregone conclusions on race relations in America, and tear down anyone who says anything that doesn't fall in line with them. This thread LITERALLY went down the course of devolution and de-legitimizing of dialogue on race within the black community that the author sought to speak on + address. You can't even speak of the problem existing without being branded as an Uncle Tom

 

[feelosofer]

I didn't say he experienced the same racism as me. But even in this article when he speaks of the racism he has experienced he downplays it and makes excuses for it. Yet he makes no excuses for people who react to the racism, or those who he feels are the biggest victims of racism.

This. I never understood this way of thinking. I have been middle/upper middle class for the past decade, I would say. But when I speak with some of these other blacks in the same position as I have been, they have this air of having made it. They trivialize the racism that they are subject to and are just blind. One of my neighbors was at an office party and they started playing rap music, and his white boss was talking 'jive' to him and saying he played this just for him, and shyt. I was like and he was laughing about it like it was all good. This wasn't a young guy in his 20's, he was in his mid 40's and a middle management guy in a financial firm. The author reminds me of this guy. Once a lot of blacks get some success they think racism is over for them and they think the lower class blacks are playing the victim card or are over sensationalizing the problem.

It's strange because I came from the dirt, in a sense and seeing the racism on the way up had me like now I see clearly, so I used my opportunity in like to combat these problems by going back to my community and the surrounding ghettoes in Jersey and help as much as I can because these young kids need to see successful black faces on the way up and not that glass ceiling that these kids will have to fight now.