Militias coming to the aid of Cliven Bundy

[Tommy Knocks]

Your reckoning of whether a law is unjust or not holds no legislative standing in a democratic society. I might believe laws against stealing are unjust and that people should live by whatever means they can, but my personal beliefs hold no standing either. By your logic anyone is justified in breaking any law merely because they disagree with it. You are a fukking moron.

You didnt answer the question.

and whats up with the name calling? did I call you any names? Ive shown you respect, how about you do the same?

 

[NatiboyB]

No posts about the ranch?

Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher in clash with federal rangers | Las Vegas Review-Journal


From near and wide, armed men are trickling toward Cliven Bundy’s ranch, where the rancher’s fight with the federal government has become a rallying cry for militia groups across the United States.

On Wednesday, that dispute teetered at the edge of deadly conflict, when Cliven Bundy’s family members and supporters scuffled with rangers from the Bureau of Land Management sent to protect the federal roundup of Bundy’s cattle on public land.

One of Bundy’s seven sons was shot with a stun gun, and Bundy’s sister was knocked to the ground; but no one was seriously hurt, and no arrests were made.

By late Wednesday, three militia members — two from Montana and one from Utah — had arrived at the ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Other militia groups have inundated the Bundy household with calls and pledges to muster at the site. Their stated goal: to protect the Bundys from tyranny.

I'm probally the only one who will say this...But these members of militia are all damn near military veterans. It's like they join the military and bring there expirence back to the militia....yet if a black Soldier was to do it they would come out with the whole gangs in the military media they did a few years back. They want to talk about crips and gds in the military but don't want to mention these militia members or closet white supremacist.

So I'm going to say this now and don't care who investigates me. I am going to train to the best of my ability members of my community on military tactics once I retire. And it's my inherent right.

 

[Lucky_Lefty]

also anyone find it scary that all these different government agencies have their own personal army

can't go too in depth but you'd be amazed

 

[NatiboyB]

can't go too in depth but you'd be amazed

You can go In depth it's not a secret.

 

[CACtain Planet]

While information about Bundy's racial proclivities aren't available

then thats all that needs to be said.. I dont know why liberal left wing hacks like @the next guy accuse this guy of being a racist trigger happy hillbilly with no proof.. just goes to show that liberals such as yourself and that idiot are quick to throw around race when they have no other sound argument relating to the issues of gun rights

 

[NatiboyB]

then thats all that needs to be said.. I dont know why liberal left wing hacks like @the next guy accuse this guy of being a racist trigger happy hillbilly with no proof.. just goes to show that liberals such as yourself and that idiot are quick to throw around race when they have no other sound argument relating to the issues of gun rights

Noticed your name...I'll put you on ignore,

 

[CACtain Planet]

Noticed your name...I'll put you on ignore,

put the truth on ignore brehs

 

[the next guy]

then thats all that needs to be said.. I dont know why liberal left wing hacks like @the next guy accuse this guy of being a racist trigger happy hillbilly with no proof.. just goes to show that liberals such as yourself and that idiot are quick to throw around race when they have no other sound argument relating to the issues of gun rights

Roddy is no more of a hack then you are a blatant sellout. Isn't your girlfriend white? Explains everything about this "guy" @Roddy Right


He's a damn freeloader not paying his taxes and you support him. Then again I doubt you're even black (show proof) so there's that.

 

[the next guy]

put the truth on ignore brehs

you're so full of yourself.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

All you people simply assuming all ranchers are white racists are being unfair. If Bundy is a racist cac, then clearly any sane person wouldn't approve of it, however it is important people's way of life aren't allowed to be marginalized all for the benefit of some corrupt politicians. You idiots don't see this is essentially the white version of gentrification? Just as its bad when jews sell historically black property to rich developers, forcing its predominantly black residents out in Harlem, to corrupt politicians forcing cattle ranchers off of grazing land they've used for 100's of years, all for some corrupt get rich scheme devised by politicians, its all bad.

I'm really impartial to the outcome of this incident, but i DO admire Bundy fighting for his rights as an American to continue his way of life. Well i can't say that i'll join him in his battle, i do admire his bravery for standing up for what he believes in.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

And those same ranchers are dwindling in number from the same problems I described.



And those war protesters were voluntarily residing in the United States. Round and round.



I presume that the government needs to sit down, re-evaluate how the BLM does business, negotiate with Bundy, and perhaps waive part of his back taxes.



Anyway, here's the problem with our argument as I see it: You're arguing purely on the level of legality. I'm arguing on a level beyond that -- the level of legitimacy. Based on how BLM has operated in the past and the circumstances of Bundy's situation (which you deem irrelevant), I think Bundy questioning the BLM's legitimacy are perfectly reasonable.

This isn't a debate on whether law is necessary. This is a debate on whether the law, as applied, is just and legitimate. Is it also "problematic?" Well yes, questioning the legitimacy of the government comes with a certain set of problems. But that doesn't mean the government agencies are beyond such questioning.

Exactly. Most liberals are pussies, hence the reason they never want to question the "law". They sit there and watch injustice after injustice be committed, as long as its under the guise of the law. The illegal Iraq invasion was allowed to proceed by liberals because it was technically "legal" under the "law" passed by our sham congress. The lack of integrity amongst dmeocrats (and repubs obviously) is disgusting.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

Liberal Stand???

negged
dapped/undapped

There is literally a website called LIBERAL LAND?

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

No. That's this discussion. You can't separate application of the law from the context in which it is applied.

The topic of why ranchers are dwindling is distracting from the bottom line of the discussion dealing with Bundy. The bottom line is Bundy should not be allowed to graze on the public land and ignore rules and restrictions set in place to graze on the land. Plain and simple.

Uh, no. I was trying to point out, tongue-in-cheek, how ridiculously reductive the position of "if you don't like it, leave" is.

I used the war protesters as a way of showing how hypocritical it was for the left to be so tax-friendly all of a sudden, when not paying taxes has been a tried-and-true tactic. Then you drew a distinction between Bundy and the protesters in that Bundy could just "leave." My response was meant to underscore that Bundy could no more leave than those protesters could.

Oh okay...well that's a bad comparison. The paying for the Iraq War through taxpaying dollars and voluntarily grazing on land for your benefit or two different situations.

Bundy? Wealthy? A common misconception. Ranchers are essentially "house rich." He may have a lot of land and a lot of cattle, but the margin on selling cattle is low. His real wealth is the land, which is probably worth millions on the fair market. That's how ranchers stay afloat in bad years. They take a loan out against the value of the land, and then repay the loan when times are okay. The rub is that Bundy doesn't care if he never recognizes a gain on the land. He just wants to live on it. And the government will absolutely buttfukk him on the price.

We're not talking about the 160 acre private land he is "living on" we are talking about the 170,000 acre public land he is grazing his cattle on. Meaning land for public use.

Regarding the question of why Bundy didn't negotiate, I imagine Bundy wanted to go through the courts first. But that didn't work out because the letter of the law is against him.

He didn't go to court for it until 1998 when the government set an injuction on him for trespassing on the land and not paying for it. He didn't negotiate or work out any deal. In 1993 he just said "I'm not going to pay for it anymore."

That's fine. But if you acknowledge that, then you're also acknowledging that you can't just argue legality. Which is what you've been doing up to this point.

No I'm arguing that the law applies to Bundy the same way it applies to everyone and he gets no exception because "he's fed up".

 

[Digga38]

All you people simply assuming all ranchers are white racists are being unfair. If Bundy is a racist cac, then clearly any sane person wouldn't approve of it, however it is important people's way of life aren't allowed to be marginalized all for the benefit of some corrupt politicians. You idiots don't see this is essentially the white version of gentrification? Just as its bad when jews sell historically black property to rich developers, forcing its predominantly black residents out in Harlem, to corrupt politicians forcing cattle ranchers off of grazing land they've used for 100's of years, all for some corrupt get rich scheme devised by politicians, its all bad.

I'm really impartial to the outcome of this incident, but i DO admire Bundy fighting for his rights as an American to continue his way of life. Well i can't say that i'll join him in his battle, i do admire his bravery for standing up for what he believes in.

this right here.....Were all goy to them but these idiots on this board dont enderstand this

 

[714562]

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