Millions are FLOODING across the border!

[Savvir]

i forget, and im not gonna bother looking it up again. if you think that's wrong, then what do you think it is?

This is the reason disinformation is so prevalent.

Stop saying shyt you can't back up

 

[ill]

America is sending elderly people who desperately need affordable healthcare because people like you want more billions.

Can you point out the Mexican law that makes it illegal for tourists to come get dental work?

As far as I’m aware, there’s no such thing.

What I do know is that my local Boston hospitals are some of the best in the world and foreigners come here to get high-end complicated surgeries performed by some of the best doctors In the world. And when they’re done with their operations, they go back to their home country.

Next time you post a shock thread, think it through

 

[the cac mamba]

This is the reason disinformation is so prevalent.

Stop saying shyt you can't back up

why did you duck the question? if those figures are wrong, then what's the correct numbers?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

there's plenty of things that the left wing media refuses to report on because it doesnt fit their agenda. you know this and the right wing media does the same thing

You really believe all possible sources are so far "left wing" or "right wing" that finding a reasonable source that supports your claims is impossible? There's not a single even moderate-right source, like the Cato Institute or the Economist or something, that can support your claims?

so if the poor are net givers to the system, that means everyone up to the rich are REALLY net givers to the system. so why is the system in debt if everyone in it is a net giver

Where did they brainwash you like that? That's not how it works at all.

The working poor are on average big givers to the system. In fact, nearly all laborers are net givers, that's literally the only reason capitalism works.

The non-working poor - people who are unemployed, on welfare, on disability, retired and outliving their contributions into the system - that's where some of the net takers are.

But a huge portion of net takers are among the wealthy. People who make their money siphoning off economic rents, who earn money simply by the fact that they control the money supply and keep shuttling as much money out of the system away from the workers. People who live off of other people's work are the biggest net takers.

And you really want to know why we're in debt as a nation? Because of defense industry stockholders. Because of finance industry games with loans. Because of a large number of wealthy people and corporations who work huge government contracts, subsidies, and tax breaks to their advantage and then dodge taxes. Because of a pharmaceutical industry, a medical industry, and a medical insurance industry that has found every means possible to screw the American people out of every dollar possible.

Working people aren't the ones who indebted this nation - especially not the working poor. Just look at the damn budget and tell me where all the money went to the working poor? Military contracting, finance industry manipulations, aid to the non-working, and huge tax breaks for the wealthy are the four things that far and away indebted this nation.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Can you point out the Mexican law that makes it illegal for tourists to come get dental work?

As far as I’m aware, there’s no such thing.

What I do know is that my local Boston hospitals are some of the best in the world and foreigners come here to get high-end complicated surgeries performed by some of the best doctors In the world. And when they’re done with their operations, they go back to their home country.

Yes, America is a great place to get medical care if you have a ton of money.

If you're poor, it's one of the worst places to get medical care in the Western world. We're awful on almost every metric - access to care, equity of care, child mortality, maternal mortality, lifespan, death rate due to causes that could have been prevented with appropriate medical care, you name it.

Take a look at this recent study comparing health care systems in 11 wealthy countries.:

The United States does not receive high marks. Overall, despite a level of spending that dwarfs the other countries in the study, the U.S. comes in dead last in three of the five, and arguably the most important three, of the five domains: health outcomes, equity, and access. We are tied for last on administrative efficiency and about average on care process. The U.S. is also last in their summary indicator aggregating all five dimensions.

The bottom line, and the paper's most basic conclusion, is that "the performance of the U.S. health care system ranks last compared to other high-income countries."

The study also finds that the "U.S. has the highest rate of mortality amenable to health care." More people die unnecessarily in the U.S. due to inadequate care, or the pure absence of care, than any in any of country in the study. The issue is not merely problems in the American life style, Americans die more than Europeans because of poor quality health care or lack of access to care. It is that simple.

The US Ranks Last in Health Care System Performance

 

[the cac mamba]

Working people aren't the ones who indebted this nation - especially not the working poor. Just look at the damn budget and tell me where all the money went to the working poor? Military contracting, finance industry manipulations, aid to the non-working, and huge tax breaks for the wealthy are the four things that far and away indebted this nation.

we're gonna have to disagree

i would suggest that you go to your mayor and ask him to direct all the migrants and immigrants that cross the southern border, to your town personally :jaymelo:

 

[Savvir]

why did you duck the question? if those figures are wrong, then what's the correct numbers?

I'm just asking you to back up your words...
you admit you can't and i just made notice of that...
don't try to get me to do your homework for you pleighboi

asking for a source doesn't mean I'm trying to refute you...
It just means I'm checking the receipts before I even take your word as fact

 

[cheek100]

This is the reason disinformation is so prevalent.

Stop saying shyt you can't back up

if those figures are wrong, then what's the correct numbers?

Bruhhh

 

[the cac mamba]

I'm just asking you to back up your words...
you admit you can't and i just made notice of that...
don't try to get me to do your homework for you pleighboi

asking for a source doesn't mean I'm trying to refute you...
It just means I'm checking the receipts before I even take your word as fact

so you think that a household of illegal immigrants that pays about 10 grand in taxes every year, and doesnt have health insurance, is a positive for the government. it takes less than 10 thousand in government services and healthcare costs (subsidized by insurance paid for by the middle class) to support that household?

you've solved every economic problem facing america today, in 3 posts on the coli

 

[ill]

Yes, America is a great place to get medical care if you have a ton of money.

If you're poor, it's one of the worst places to get medical care in the Western world. We're awful on almost every metric - access to care, equity of care, child mortality, maternal mortality, lifespan, death rate due to causes that could have been prevented with appropriate medical care, you name it.

Take a look at this recent study comparing health care systems in 11 wealthy countries.:



The US Ranks Last in Health Care System Performance

Thats not the point of my response nor do I disagree with your sentiment. My point is that he's talking about tourism (vacation/business/medical procedures) being the same thing as immigration.

Boston hospitals help out more than just the rich foreigners, btw.

 

[Savvir]

so you think that a household of illegal immigrants that pays about 10 grand in taxes every year, and doesnt have health insurance, is a positive for the government. i

quote the post where i said or even alluded to that....

I'll wait....

you've solved every economic problem facing america today, in 3 posts on the coli

quote the post where i proposed ANY "solutions"....

you are arguing with yourself at this point

 

[the cac mamba]

quote the post where i said or even alluded to that....

I'll wait....

then what are you arguing with me for :mindblownj: that's all i said

i feel like i sound like im attacking the poor here, and that's not my intent at all. but numbers are numbers. the bottom half of the country doesnt pay any federal taxes, and illegals are soundly in that category, meaning their households are a net loss for the government and the middle class has to pick up the tab for them. im not sure what part of that is controversial

(obviously they pay sales tax and shyt so it's not a complete loss)

 

[Snoopy Loops]

Source?

i forget, and im not gonna bother looking it up again. if you think that's wrong, then what do you think it is?

This is the reason disinformation is so prevalent.

Stop saying shyt you can't back up

why did you duck the question? if those figures are wrong, then what's the correct numbers?

I'm just asking you to back up your words...
you admit you can't and i just made notice of that...
don't try to get me to do your homework for you pleighboi

asking for a source doesn't mean I'm trying to refute you...
It just means I'm checking the receipts before I even take your word as fact

so you think that a household of illegal immigrants that pays about 10 grand in taxes every year, and doesnt have health insurance, is a positive for the government. it takes less than 10 thousand in government services and healthcare costs (subsidized by insurance paid for by the middle class) to support that household?

you've solved every economic problem facing america today, in 3 posts on the coli

then what are you arguing with me for :mindblownj: that's all i said

i feel like i sound like im attacking the poor here, and that's not my intent at all. but numbers are numbers. the bottom half of the country doesnt pay any federal taxes, and illegals are soundly in that category, meaning their households are a net loss for the government and the middle class has to pick up the tab for them. im not sure what part of that is controversial

(obviously they pay sales tax and shyt so it's not a complete loss)

WHAT?

Why should anyone take your word seriously if you cant provide a source .

Least you can do, is to educate us, if you even care about us coming to a consensus.
Definitely not the mamba mentality

 

[the cac mamba]

WHAT?

Why should anyone take your word seriously if you cant provide a source .

Least you can do, is to educate us, if you even care about us coming to a consensus.
Definitely not the mamba mentality

honestly, all i can find is conflicting reports it's mostly right wing outlets doing studies, and obviously they have an agenda and they overinflate numbers. but it seems like they're the only ones doing the studies at all

 

[Professor Emeritus]

honestly, all i can find is conflicting reports it's mostly right wing outlets doing studies, and obviously they have an agenda and they overinflate numbers. but it seems like they're the only ones doing the studies at all

No, it's that they're the only ones doing studies to measure an imaginary number that's impossible to put into hard terms like that. Do you see studies telling you how much the average US citizen "pays for themselves", taking into account the past benefits of retirees and the future benefits of children, accounting for all the changes in law over the previous lifetimes of the families members and the future lifetimes of the family members and calculating positive economic impact over that whole interval? And then factoring in roads or military or whatever else that can't even be apportioned per-person?

"It's really hard to calculate anyone’s 'net cost' or 'net benefit.' We all use all kinds of services, from roads to military protection. How do we apportion what part of that is something I or you or an immigrant use?" said Kallick.

It's ridiculous to put hard numbers on something so completely unpredictable as that. You can suggest general realities based on what you know about the system, but calculating things that forces you to project 50-80 years into the future to gauge the appropriate impact is impossible.

Cato Institute is one of the more responsible right-wing think tanks, and they repeatedly mock places like the Heritage Foundation for putting out the kind of bullshyt numbers you were repeating. Here too. Tim Kane, another conservative economist, tears it apart here.

Do they offer alternative numbers? No, because as they note, the situation is too dynamic to do such a blunt calculation. The economy doesn't work that way. But they do look at specific policies, like the degree to which immigration reform would benefit the US economy.



Other groups find that immigrants are a windfall to US taxpayers, that illegal immigrants are shoring up social security, that they pay large amounts in state and local taxes, they're paying sales tax, federal income tax, and property taxes too.

But summarizing all that into the kind of number you want doesn't exist. The economy is too complex and lifetimes are too long to be able to pretend you can calculate exactly how much any one person is worth.