MLK Malcolm X debate.

ogc163

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I have to roll with Malcolm X, I disagreed with him on several issues but at the end of the day his stance on classism and ownership/business is what makes me lean towards him. He seemed to have a better understanding of interest group/class dynamics than MLK Jr., probably because he himself had to navigate between various groups in his own personal life. I have always been bothered that back then and even today most of thepundits/Academics/Radio Hosts and so called leaders of the Black community grew up in middle class neighborhoods when there are substantial differences in the Black experience of someone living in the South Bronx and someone growing up in Riverdale, Malcolm X knew how to interact and speak to both classes in an effective manner . I would strongly suggest people read Bruce Perry's Last Speeches

http://www.amazon.com/Malcolm-Last-Speeches-speeches-writings/dp/0873485432hip/
 

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I have to roll with Malcolm X, I disagreed with him on several issues but at the end of the day his stance on classism and ownership/business is what makes me lean towards him. He seemed to have a better understanding of interest group/class dynamics than MLK Jr., probably because he himself had to navigate between various groups in his own personal life. I have always been bothered that back then and even today most of thepundits/Academics/Radio Hosts and so called leaders of the Black community grew up in middle class neighborhoods when there are substantial differences in the Black experience of someone living in the South Bronx and someone growing up in Riverdale, Malcolm X knew how to interact and speak to both classes in an effective manner . I would strongly suggest people read Bruce Perry's Last Speeches

http://www.amazon.com/Malcolm-Last-Speeches-speeches-writings/dp/0873485432hip/


Damn brah, if you think that MLK wasn't the master of understanding group and class dynamics, I don't think you were paying attention. Malcolm was by and large concerned with the injustice and issues of the Black American community and Blacks worldwide, MLK was concerned with social/class/economic and violence worldwide.

You need to read this:

American Rhetoric: Martin Luther King, Jr: A Time to Break Silence (Declaration Against the Vietnam War)

That shyt was revolutionary at that time and preceded a lot of the anti-Vietnam sentiment that would soon engulf the nation.
 
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Heed Breed.
@Blackthoughts

Mexicans and Indians do not have different descents.

Mexico previously owned Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Texas places were Native Americans were highly saturated.

Nd I agree Creos are equivalent to Mexicans.

Nd yall came here full blooded.Choose to mix race , normal. Just like Natives.

Bottom line , Natives killed many Whites and at the end of the day we received "empathy" from them, we got our own casinos, banks, reservation including own police and judges & schools.

We killed more whites than any other race and stood up 100% for our race.
 
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ogc163

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Damn brah, if you think that MLK wasn't the master of understanding group and class dynamics, I don't think you were paying attention. Malcolm was by and large concerned with the injustice and issues of the Black American community and Blacks worldwide, MLK was concerned with social/class/economic and violence worldwide.

You need to read this:

American Rhetoric: Martin Luther King, Jr: A Time to Break Silence (Declaration Against the Vietnam War)

That shyt was revolutionary at that time and preceded a lot of the anti-Vietnam sentiment that would soon engulf the nation.

IDK about the whole "master of understanding group and class dynamics" especially when you take into consideration that you had young Black folks (especially the ones from the ghetto) who were already drowning MLK out during his last years. Malcolm in his last year alive spent most of that time outside of the United States giving speeches and interacting with groups that were more radical at the time than he was. He wasn't strapped by any notion that the public (white or black) would vilify him for who interacted with, MLK Jr. on the other was very P.R. conscious that is not to say he didn't buck the trend even after he became a national figure.
 

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@ogc163

Good article

(CNN) -- The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. was leaving a news conference one afternoon when a tall man with a coppery complexion stepped out of the crowd and blocked his path.

Malcolm X, the African-American Muslim leader who once called King "Rev. Dr. Chicken-wing," extended his hand and smiled.

"Well, Malcolm, good to see you," King said after taking Malcolm X's hand.

"Good to see you," Malcolm X replied as both men broke into huge grins while a gaggle of photographers snapped pictures of their only meeting.

That encounter on March 26, 1964, lasted only a minute. But a photo of that meeting has tantalized scholars and supporters of both men for more than 45 years.

As the 85th birthday of Malcolm X is marked on Wednesday, history has freeze-framed him as the angry black separatist who saw whites as blue-eyed devils.

Yet near the end of his life, Malcolm X was becoming more like King -- and King was becoming more like him.

"In the last years of their lives, they were starting to move toward one another," says David Howard-Pitney, who recounted the Capitol Hill meeting in his book "Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, and the Civil Rights Struggle of the 1950s and 1960s."

In the last years of their lives, they were starting to move toward one another.
--David Howard-Pitney, scholar on Malcolm X and MLK

"While Malcolm is moderating from his earlier position, King is becoming more militant," Pitney says.

Malcolm X was reaching out to King even before he broke away from the Nation of Islam and embraced Sunni Islam after a pilgrimage to Mecca, says Andrew Young, a member of King's inner circle at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the civil rights group King headed.

"Even before his trip to Mecca, Malcolm used to come by the SCLC's office," Young says. "Unfortunately, Dr. King was never there when he came."
How Malcolm became a 'cultural revolutionary'

Though the men met only once, they had been portrayed as foes in the minds of the American public for years.

Malcolm X burst onto the national scene in 1959 when he and the Nation of Islam were featured in a documentary, "The Hate That Hate Produced."
He became the Nation of Islam's most visible spokesman from his base in New York. While King preached about his dream, Malcolm X said blacks were trapped in a nightmare.

"It was his critique of America from the bottom up that was so shocking," says Young. "He was a young man with a Ph.D mind, but he was put out of school. He educated himself in jail by reading the dictionary."

Malcolm X's harsh rhetoric helped "decolonize" black people's minds by teaching them to be proud of their African heritage, says James Cone, author of "Martin & Malcolm & America."

"King was a political revolutionary. Malcolm was a cultural revolutionary," Cone says. "Malcolm changed how black people thought about themselves. Before Malcolm came along, we were all Negroes. After Malcolm, he helped us become black."

Despite their differences, both King and Malcolm X's political activism flowed from the same source, says Pitney, the civil rights scholar.

"They were fundamentally spiritual men," Pitney says. "While we remember them for their social and political activism, they were religious and spiritual at their core."

Malcolm moves toward Martin
Malcolm X, though, wanted to be more than a cultural revolutionary. He broke with the Nation of Islam in March 1964 and announced plans to start a black political organization.

He reached out to King and other civil rights leaders. In 1965, Malcolm X traveled to Selma, Alabama, where King was leading a campaign, to offer support.

"Brother Malcolm was definitely making an outreach to some civil rights leaders," says A. Peter Bailey, an original member of the group Malcolm X founded, The Organization of Afro-American Unity, and a friend of Malcolm X. "He believed that the one who would be most responsive would be Dr. King."
The Muslim leader had developed an appreciation for King, Bailey says.
"He had come to believe that King believed in what he was doing," Bailey says. "He believed in nonviolence; it just wasn't a show. He developed respect for him. I heard him say you have to give respect to men who put their lives on the line."

Malcolm X may have been willing to join the civil rights cause. But he never subscribed to nonviolence or abandoned his Muslim faith, Bailey says.

"The whole idea that he had become a token integrationist at the end of his life -- that's a bunch of jive," Bailey says.

Martin moves toward Malcolm
King's movement toward Malcolm began as he shifted the civil rights movement to the North, friends and scholars say.

During the last three years of his life, King became more radical. He talked about eliminating poverty and providing a guaranteed annual income for all U.S. citizens. He came out against the Vietnam War, and said American society would have to be restructured.

He also veered into Malcolm X's rhetorical territory when he started preaching black self-pride, says Pitney.

"King is photographed a number of times in 1967 and '68 wearing a 'Black is Beautiful' button,' " Pitney says.

A year before King died, the journalist David Halberstam even told him he "sounded like a nonviolent Malcolm X," Pitney says.
He had come to believe that King believed in what he was doing
--A. Peter Bailey, friend of Malcolm X

In the epic PBS civil rights series, Coretta Scott King, the civil rights leader's widow, said King never took Malcolm X's biting criticisms of his nonviolence stance personally.
"I know Martin had the greatest respect for Malcolm ...," she said. "I think that if Malcolm had lived, at some point the two would have come closer together and would have been a very strong force."

Young, King's close aide, says King had become more militant near the end of his life.
"It was more radical to deal with poverty than to deal with segregation so, in that sense, it's true," Young says. "But Dr. King never wavered in his commitment to nonviolence. In fact, he was getting stronger in his commitment to nonviolence. It was a more militant nonviolence."
Why they endure

Malcolm X and King never had the chance, though, to explore an alliance.
Malcolm X was assassinated in Harlem in 1965. King was murdered three years later.
Both were 39 at the time of their death. Both had been abandoned by former supporters. And both left virtually no money to their wives and young children because they refused to profit from their activism.
The photo of their meeting endures. It was taken because both men happened to be in the Capitol building that day to listen to politicians debate the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which would later pass.

Author Cone says the picture endures because both men embody the " 'yin and yang' deep in the soul of black America."
Even as King was changing America, he also realized that Malcolm X was changing him.
Cone says with a chuckle:
"Martin Luther King once said that when he listened to Malcolm speak, even he got angry."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/05/19/Malcolmx.king/index.html
 
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Damn brah, if you think that MLK wasn't the master of understanding group and class dynamics, I don't think you were paying attention. Malcolm was by and large concerned with the injustice and issues of the Black American community and Blacks worldwide, MLK was concerned with social/class/economic and violence worldwide.

You need to read this:

American Rhetoric: Martin Luther King, Jr: A Time to Break Silence (Declaration Against the Vietnam War)

That shyt was revolutionary at that time and preceded a lot of the anti-Vietnam sentiment that would soon engulf the nation.

I have to roll with Malcolm X, I disagreed with him on several issues but at the end of the day his stance on classism and ownership/business is what makes me lean towards him. He seemed to have a better understanding of interest group/class dynamics than MLK Jr., probably because he himself had to navigate between various groups in his own personal life. I have always been bothered that back then and even today most of thepundits/Academics/Radio Hosts and so called leaders of the Black community grew up in middle class neighborhoods when there are substantial differences in the Black experience of someone living in the South Bronx and someone growing up in Riverdale, Malcolm X knew how to interact and speak to both classes in an effective manner . I would strongly suggest people read Bruce Perry's Last Speeches

http://www.amazon.com/Malcolm-Last-Speeches-speeches-writings/dp/0873485432hip/

These guys were more alike from an ideological stand point than most people think...
 
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IDK about the whole "master of understanding group and class dynamics" especially when you take into consideration that you had young Black folks (especially the ones from the ghetto) who were already drowning MLK out during his last years. Malcolm in his last year alive spent most of that time outside of the United States giving speeches and interacting with groups that were more radical at the time than he was. He wasn't strapped by any notion that the public (white or black) would vilify him for who interacted with, MLK Jr. on the other was very P.R. conscious that is not to say he didn't buck the trend even after he became a national figure.

The irony in this is that a significant amount of the foot soldiers in the civil rights movement where high schooled\college aged young adults.....

Don't think MLK's message was being drowned out like you think
 

NSSVO

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@Blackthoughts

Mexicans and Indians do not have different descents.

Mexico previously owned Cali, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Texas places were Native Americans were highly saturated.

Nd I agree Creos are equivalent to Mexicans.

Nd yall came here full blooded.Choose to mix race , normal. Just like Natives.

Bottom line , Natives killed many Whites and at the end of the day we received "empathy" from them, we got our own casinos, banks, reservation including own police and judges & schools.

We killed more whites than any other race and stood up 100% for our race.

:leon: He's right.
 
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Savior

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To me MLK vs. Malcom is one of the dumbest debates on here.....how can any self respecting dude not respect both individuals for what they did and what they achieved? They both did what they had to do based on their circumstances. When I see people shyt on MLK and his message it does get me heated tho......think on the fact that Malcom was down in Harlem, NY for the most part. It's easy to say and do whatever the fukk u want when ur basically in the home base. MLK was down in Birmingham Alabama marching on the streets.....back when they were still basically lynching nikkas in Alabama. And u think MLK could've brought that militant talk in the deep south when he was out there on the front lines every damn day? Lets think on that before we put down MLK and say he wasn't militant enough. Cause actions speak louder than words.
 

Solomon Caine

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I'm with Malcolm the whole way. Screw holding hands and singing ''we shall overcome'' when the enemy has been killing your people for hundreds of years and is continuing to do so. This is when we need men of war.

I'm African and I would spit on Mandela's grave when the bytch dies. We have no room for soft leaders that are most likely in bed with the enemy.

These c@cs will never take blacks seriously unless they know that you are willing to strike repeatedly where it hurts and continue to strike regardless of the outcome. Whites only understand fear and extreme violence.

Why isn't der a Malcolm X Street or Malcolm X day?? I never respect leaders that are praised and respected by Amerikkka.
 

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I'm with Malcolm the whole way. Screw holding hands and singing ''we shall overcome'' when the enemy has been killing your people for hundreds of years and is continuing to do so. This is when we need men of war.

I'm African and I would spit on Mandela's grave when the bytch dies. We have no room for soft leaders that are most likely in bed with the enemy.

These c@cs will never take blacks seriously unless they know that you are willing to strike repeatedly where it hurts and continue to strike regardless of the outcome. Whites only understand fear and extreme violence.

:snoop:

Unlike you and others your worship, Mandela was out in the streets conducting a revolution, with violence. Go look up what the ANC and the MK actually did before his bid.

They weren't about "holding hands". Mandela has blood on his hands. He got his country back.
 

Solomon Caine

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He failed to punish whitey after Apartheid was over. C@cs are still chilling in Africa, Economic Apartheid and segregation continues till today. I never liked Mandela and them weak azz South Africans. That's how I feel about the whole situation, you don't have to agree.
 

Ineedmoney504

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i side more wit mlk, its power in number and its no way wit the resources, numbers and power that whites had and still have would we be able beat them in a violent war, and in the south that shyt wasnt going to fly at all, these were 2 great men that grew up in two totally different environments, so they had two different outlooks,
 
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