MLK Malcolm X debate.

[inndaskKy]

@ Kanye interrupting MLK at the end. I was not expecting that. Am I the only one who actually watched that shyt until the end and got caught off guard?

 

[Danie84]

Despite their different perspectives and approach, It's hard to side with one over the other, when both wanted the same equal rights for our people

 

[OsO]

I dont agree with working through a broken system to get the needed change, and history has bore that fact as the Civil Rights Movement was a failure unless success is simply changing the laws without the quantifiable results from change in people's lives.

the ether

 

[Birnin Zana]

@ogc163

Good article



http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/05/19/Malcolmx.king/index.html

Bottom line is together, they would have been an incredible force not just for black folk, but the country as a whole. A lot of shyt would have been taken care of if they were still around.

Honestly their assassinations--and the killings of other black leaders--pushed this country back so far. It's 2013 and we still talking about shyt Martin and Malcolm were talking about back in 1964.

 

[CASHAPP]

@ Kanye interrupting MLK at the end. I was not expecting that. Am I the only one who actually watched that shyt until the end and got caught off guard?

the random ass rocky theme and "hey rocky"

 

[Birnin Zana]

Reading this thread tho, all I can think is it was a good thing we had both of them around. Had they been able to link up it would of been extremely powerful and would of changed the course of history. So naturally they had to be killed.

Exactly. both of them gettin murdered was a big loss for the country, and probably the world. Damn shame. To think they were this close to officially teaming up.

Damn, America was a really fukked up place back then. And it's still is, despite all the "progress".

 

[Blackking]

The Civil Rights Movement was a "failure" (more like a compromise) because it was never allowed to go into the next phase. Almost all of those Civil Right Movement leaders understood that Capitalism was the ultimate enemy.

The Civil Rights movements were a failure because the end goal was full acceptance from those that do not accept you, full rights in a nation that doesn't want you, and full integration to your oppressors facilities...
OH yeah, and to be able to swim in public pool and eat white people poison at local restaurants. And Worse - learn a version of history that might be top 3 most fukked up on earth.

Actions speak louder than words... You had two movements.... one was focused on changing the minds of black 'folk' and focusing on fighting not joining;---, and building not receiving.
The other movement was focusing on marching not fighting. Joining/integrating not empowering. And receiving the spoils of demonic history, but not creating your own shyt.

Sure MLK and the preachers in the south new that capitalism was the enemy, but if you are willing to settle for fake civil rights and not fight for human rights then what's the point in knowing?

 

[Type Username Here]

The Civil Rights movements were a failure because the end goal was full acceptance from those that do not accept you, full rights in a nation that doesn't want you, and full integration to your oppressors facilities...
OH yeah, and to be able to swim in public pool and eat white people poison at local restaurants. And Worse - learn a version of history that might be top 3 most fukked up on earth.

Actions speak louder than words... You had two movements.... one was focused on changing the minds of black 'folk' and focusing on fighting not joining;---, and building not receiving.
The other movement was focusing on marching not fighting. Joining/integrating not empowering. And receiving the spoils of demonic history, but not creating your own shyt.

Sure MLK and the preachers in the south new that capitalism was the enemy, but if you are willing to settle for fake civil rights and not fight for human rights then what's the point in knowing?

Martin Luther King didn't stop at the passage of any of the laws you mentioned. In fact, he was emboldened by it and sought to go further.

The fact is that Martin Luther King took a bullet for what he believed in. He was fighting every day until he died. To insinuate otherwise is foolish and lacks knowledge.

 

[Oville]

I don't disagree with anything you said, but that was sort of my point. In my opinion, the root of most of our problems are rooted in class issues and only one of them really addressed that significantly. I feel very comfortable in saying that MLK was probably the most prevalent Socialist in US history. He never took the eye off the ball, and his words to this day are extremely relevant. I sincerely believe that is why he was killed. You go check on those crowds in his post-CRA speeches regarding class, greed, and war, and you can notice that a lot of white youth started to take notice, especially during the Counter-Revolution time of that decade. That must have been very troubling to certain people; a magnetic, energetic and popular nobel peace prize winner who was taking every chance to shyt on capitalism, greed, MIC and so on.

I seem to understand that if you're black and you had and continue to have these racial issues how much more powerful Malcolm's words are, especially if you have pent up anger and frustration. But let's not forget that there was a post-NOI Malcolm as well and he ended up walking back on a lot of things he said, even towards Dr. King.

Yea, I think whats interesting about these two men is that in the last few years of their lives their ideologies veered slightly towards each other. Malcolm stopped believing in racial essences and believed that it could be possible blacks and whites to live amongst one another but he felt that before that could happen blacks needed to preserve their human rights and be allowed to develop their own communities internally. Martin began questioning whether integration was really possible and became more sympathetic to the idea of black men fighting back against their oppressors.

I feel that Malcolm was essential to raising the self esteem of the black community by making them proud of their african heritage and spreading awareness of the history that had been stolen from African Americans since slavery. I believe Martin had the more practical approach and effective approach though.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Doesnt matter. Let another man threaten your wife, your kids, and that dude that never bust a gun will likely easily pull the trigger. Fight or flight is a part of human nature.

That's a totally different situation..I don't see how that applies here..

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

No, I paid attention to MX's post NOI days. What he walked back was an isolationist stance. He didnt think we should stand around while fire hoses and attacked dogs were put on us. And I agree, they paint MLK in a certain light to make him more palatable to white folks. They do the same with Hellen Keller (if you can study up on her she was much more than learning to read braille).

Regardless of the name attached to the ideology, I dont agree with working through a broken system to get the needed change, and history has bore that fact as the Civil Rights Movement was a failure unless success is simply changing the laws without the quantifiable results from change in people's lives.

I don't recall the NOI ever forming a military or sparking violent encounters with the establishment....If they did, I apologize...

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Regardless of the name attached to the ideology, I dont agree with working through a broken system to get the needed change, and history has bore that fact as the Civil Rights Movement was a failure unless success is simply changing the laws without the quantifiable results from change in people's lives.

This has to be the most obtuse statement I've seen on the coli thus far.....Explain how the CRM is a failure sir?....And there is quantifiable evidence of change everywhere....

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

fukk what you heard, MLK was the greatest American that ever lived. Not only did he contribute to the Black Civil Rights movement, but was the most prominent advocate of social justice, socialism, anti-capitalism, love, integration, and legal political morality that has ever existed in this country. And to be honest, that's why I think they killed him. Once you start advocating and showing people the atrocities of the Military Industrial Complex and Capitalist greed, that's the end of the line, especially back in those days during the Cold War and the US Government's systematic blow back to Socialist and Marxist policies.

I completely agree with this sentiment.

Also, MLK was an incredible writer. I love reading his writings, very philosophical. I will always wonder how he would've changed America if he hadn't been murdered. His next goal after civil rights was to eliminate poverty

as for Malcom X, I'm not too informed about him.

 

[OsO]

This has to be the most obtuse statement I've seen on the coli thus far.....Explain how the CRM is a failure sir?....And there is quantifiable evidence of change everywhere....

it wasn't a complete failure. it did what it was supposed to do for the time, which is set a legal precedent for blacks and equal treatment in this country. unfortunately a legal precedent doesn't always translate into practice.

what it failed to do for a lot of people was deliver practical results in the form of equal treatment and equal opportunities in society. people of color still face injustice on a large scale in many facets of society from education, to jobs, to the criminal justice system, etc., so in that sense the benefits of the CRM have not translated into reality.

dont get me wrong the CRM accomplished a lot for the time because legal precedents lay the foundation for practical applications in the future. but as is stands now millions of people are getting fukked over on a regular basis due to discrimination. discrimination that should be illegal based on the law. but again that's the point--laws on the books dont always translate into practice.

and sometimes i think the CRM did more harm than help because it lulled us into a false sense of accomplishment, and after a while we stopped fighting for our equal share of the pie.

there havent been any mass social reform movements in the past 30+ years because most people feel like we made it, like we accomplished what we came for. when in reality, we didn't.

i know i sound critical of the CRM and i dont want to make it seem like im ungrateful for the sacrifices those brothas and sisters made. but as the homey pointed out before we're still fighting for a lot of the same basic rights 50 years later, so not enough has changed.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

it wasn't a complete failure. it did what it was supposed to do for the time, which is set a legal precedent for blacks and equal treatment in this country. unfortunately a legal precedent doesn't always translate into practice.

what it failed to do for a lot of people was deliver practical results in the form of equal treatment and equal opportunities in society. people of color still face injustice on a large scale in many facets of society from education, to jobs, to the criminal justice system, etc., so in that sense the benefits of the CRM have not translated into reality.

dont get me wrong the CRM accomplished a lot for the time because legal precedents lay the foundation for practical applications in the future. but as is stands now millions of people are getting fukked over on a regular basis due to discrimination. discrimination that should be illegal based on the law. but again that's the point--laws on the books dont always translate into practice.

and sometimes i think the CRM did more harm than help because it lulled us into a false sense of accomplishment, and after a while we stopped fighting for our equal share of the pie.

there havent been any mass social reform movements in the past 30+ years because most people feel like we made it, like we accomplished what we came for. when in reality, we didn't.

i know i sound critical of the CRM and i dont want to make it seem like im ungrateful for the sacrifices those brothas and sisters made. but as the homey pointed out before we're still fighting for a lot of the same basic rights 50 years later, so not enough has changed.

Good reply...

I think what people are missing is that you're not going to topple a system and reverse the mindset of those who established the system in one generation. You're spot on with a legal precedent being set by the CRM. Jim Crow, the Voting Act, and segregation kept us legally @ 2nd class citizen status and both of those practices were legally abolished due to the movement and that was a huge step forward..

But I think the main thing here is context. If you ask any black person over the age of 50 if the CRM was a success and the answer would be emphatically yes....because they know that it was just the beginning of a long process that was supposed to be passed to the next generation. Only on the internet have a seen pseudo-militant negroes who spew that CRM was a failure nonsense and I'm willing to bet that all are under the age of 30 and have never fought or sacrificed anything major in their life, while at the same time they enjoy the benefits and spoils of those that they did before them...I don't think most cats have any idea how treacherous it was during that era...No idea @ all...