Most African Americans are middle/working income ....not in poverty nor "high value"(yall buzzword)

Will Ross

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Just revisiting something I've already said before ....usually folks here are complaining about poverty/wealth but all this so call "High value" this & that is floating around recently.



Labeling a retiree drawing on (social security / Medicaid) as "public Assistance" seems odd even though I technically "get it".
2012-African-American-Public-Assistance-Chart.jpg


2020-federal-poverty-guidelines-v2.png


Black-Middle-Class-by-Income-2018.png


Most African Americans are regular middle of the road folks doing stuff like...
  • cable man
  • power/phone line maintenance
  • H.R.
  • Helpdesk
  • nursing
  • construction
  • auto repair
  • security
  • post office(other random government jobs)
  • I.T.
  • Medical / Legal work
  • Politics
  • church staff
  • education
  • Retail
  • etc etc etc...
2017-African-American-Employment-Occupations.png
I.E. most African Americans are not impoverished minimum wage workers lost in americana with a hand full of so called "high value" individuals in the mix. Most are regular folks who live around other African Americans and they live in low cost of living areas where food & housing are relatively cheap.


Black-Regional-Distribution-2016-3.jpg


:ufdup:List of U.S. communities with African-American majority populations - Wikipedia



EXAMPLES:
Jackson, MS
79.4% Black or African American

$82K / 3bd, 2ba, 1,645 sqft
3118 Longwood Dr, Jackson, MS 39212 | MLS #331951
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Birmingham, AL
(My city)
73.4% Black/African American

$86K
/ 3bd, 2ba, 1,551 sqft
845 Hibernian St, Birmingham, AL 35214 | MLS #868918
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Memphis, TN
63.33% African American

$90K / 4bd, 3ba, 2,002 sqft
2225 Pratt St, Memphis, TN 38106
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Those are for middle class people down south a lot of people ain’t in the position to afford those houses.
 

Anerdyblackguy

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Damn 55 percent of ya nikkas live in the south?


I knew it was the highest but Sheesh
 

videogamestashbox.com

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It's not like the racial wealth gap in America is closing anytime soon even.

We even have studies done by accredited professionals that state that poor white people have a better chance of moving upward in class then middle to upper class black people. In fact middle to upper class black people actually have a greater chance of falling in mobility than moving upward in in this country.

It's this "I got mine but you if you don't have anything...fukk you do better in life" mentality that's fukking us over. Especially considering this country was designed for us to fail to begin with.

:jbhmm:
Actually the "wealth gap" is one of those things I'm referring to when I said...
...or their focusing on [one of] the many right things that need attention, but putting disproportionate energy into it relevant to it's importance.

To be succinct my overall position is:
  • The popular wealth analysis is fundamentally flawed in it's application (I.E. You can't take persons making incomes of 80k v.s. 15k a year and act like they have anywhere near the same financial life because of a similar "non-depreciating asset" profile) people across drastically distinct income levels can easily have similar "wealth" profiles.(All other positions raised by folks essentially stems from or are in defense of this flawed analysis) ...I've been saying this about 2-3 years now before the current state of affairs.



Why do I say this?
The existence of disparity in "non-depreciating assets"(Wealth) between African Americans and other races isn't the point of contention here. The contention is that the existence of disparity in "non-depreciating assets" ....or specifically; people with "non-depreciating assets" of similar levels, can have wildly different economic options.

EXAMPLE:
For the sake of "argument" lets take 3 hypothetical people with $0 "non-depreciating assets"(wealth) and do a basic Life style comparison.

Person 1 of 3:
  • Income - 180k yearly ("non asset")
  • Downtown luxury apartment Rental - ("non asset")
  • Luxury Car - $30k paid & $30k owed ("depreciating asset")
  • 401k - $160k ("non-depreciating asset")
  • Student loans - $100k (debt)
  • Credit Cards - $30k (debt)
  • etc etc
Total "non-depreciating assets" value = $0


Person 2 of 3:
  • Income - 80k yearly ("non asset")
  • Home - $50k paid & $50k owed ("non-depreciating asset")
  • Used Car - paid off ("depreciating asset")
  • 401k - $60k ("non-depreciating asset")
  • Student loans - $40k (debt)
  • Credit Cards - $20k (debt)
  • etc etc
Total "non-depreciating assets" value = $0


Person 3 of 3:
  • Income - 15k yearly ("non asset")
  • Section 8 Apartment rental - ("non asset")
  • Public transportation
  • Checking account - $200 ("non asset")
  • etc etc
Total "non-depreciating assets" value = $0


The (expenses available to / lifestyle afforded by) the 3 persons/families above are wildly distinct. And most importantly the overwhelming majority of African Americans are not reflected by [Person 3 of 3] above(a non-depreciating asset profile doesn't give the data to make that assertion one way or the other).
Black-Middle-Class-by-Income-2018.png


(To be clear, a person could have great income and crippling debt also ...one data point isn't going to net but so much)


I.E. asserting that African Americans have a $[insert value here] "non-depreciating asset" profile means very little in determining the economic options/quality of life for a given person or group of people. Hell Africa itself is a prime example of that. There are various African countries with vast amounts of "non-depreciating assets" in the ground in terms of raw resources, that doesn't mean the country and it's inhabitants are automatically/anymore likely to be Singapore status.


My central objection is that the validity of the reference data and the validity of conclusions/interpretations based on that data are two related ...but distinct topics. Folks often confuse the two and I've said this a couple times now on coli.

Just because folks have quality ingredients(data) doesn't mean they succeeded in properly cooking the dish(conclusions). They also can't lean on the quality of those ingredients to justify a failed dish. The dish isn't a failure because of the quality of their ingredients, the dish is a failure because they failed to properly cook those ingredients.



Conclusion:
The "wealth deception" is a huge topic deserving of it's own thread, I mean there is still the issues of...
  • Asset(property) value and tax hikes - see Georgia sea island people who loose their homes when the taxes on the property skyrocket because of local development raises the value of the land without a corresponding increase in income to pay those new taxes.
  • Disparities & Gaps(wealth, income, etc) as a motive for development - The nonesense action of people acting like development goals are assessed, proposed, & justified based on the existence of Disparities / Gaps.
  • Political history of focus on wealth as opposed to income - People were hyping the "so called GDP(spending power)" of African Americans till around 2014 when conservative Larry Elder started using the spending power factoid to dismiss AA problems. Soon After people started moving away from GDP; first to PPP then to "wealth".
  • Market manipulation of wealth - See African nations like Zimbabwe where the west colludes to embargo any purchases of goods thereby artificially lowering it's value despite those same goods from other exporters having value on the open market. On a smaller domestic level I would also look to the experience of black farmers in the U.S.
  • The white valuation of African American assets (If we had the same amount of "stuff" we still wouldn't have the same "non-depreciating asset" value) because the mere fact that African Americans own the asset diminishes it's value to those doing the assessing/buying. I've touched on this aspect before....

Me getting to all of the above would take some time I'm not quite ready to give. And this is all before the odd position of saying income doesn't matter only wealth, then proposing an increase in income via reparations, when if income would alter the wealth profile you could just as easily push AAs to spend a greater share of our disposable income on collective wealth acquisition. Which is even more odd because if the position is that there is no mechanism for AAs to spend our disposable income on collective wealth acquisition then what does folks think is going to happen when AAs get more income via reparations?
(And folks can't tell me the majority of African Americans are in poverty with no disposable income to pool for collective wealth acquisition cause that's a lie used to spur folks into [insert action here])

Most of the wealth talk logic is just silly to me and has always been for the past 3-5 years:yeshrug:
 
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videogamestashbox.com

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Recognizing your roots makes you divisive? Are you a cac or some foreigner that piggy backed off of our efforts without showing respect? :sas2:

Please quote where I said that simply recognizing your roots makes you divisive?:jbhmm: ....I'll even do you a solid and wait for you to find it:ehh:

















Now what I am saying:

SHORT WINDED:
I'm not a "slavery hashtag person" AssimilationistDivisiveOrSellout.
I.E. I'm referring to ideas & actions not people per say ...unless those people are perpetrating those actions of course.

LONG WINDED:
For all the positions that "slavery hashtag people" take, the only thing that distinguish them from anything that already exist is...
  • Flag draping U.S. Assimilation over panafricanism(if not out right anti-panAfricanism)
  • Divisive Anti(African / diasporan) immigrant talk
  • Or
  • Selling out such multi generational work in service of so called policy & reparations when nether policy nor reparations requires such behavior as pre-existing advocacy shows.
Again, I add being from the south makes this far more glaring. Because of the shear number of African Americans down here; Generating representatives and policy here can be done on one hand then on the other hand someone else in the nation can simultaneously go to Africa and take up a...
  • Mono rail contract in Nigeria
  • Build hotels in Liberia & Ghana
  • Own & Operate a news website from south Africa & Nigeria
  • etc.
...all in the service of building personal and family "wealth". (same as folks who come here from the continent / diaspora to take advantage of opportunities) all of these things occur concurrently.


Generic Example:
Black conservative republicans will tell you stuff like the democratic party is bad for black people and we need to do for self while checking our own dysfunction etc. etc. Ok, i'll bite. Thing is I can get that do for self outlook from garden variety black nationalist. Not only that but I can also get gang interventions, mentorship programs, prison visitation / recidivism programs, etc. So what does that leave to distinguish black conservative republicans from any other politic available to African Americans? The only thing that distinguishes them is their inability to call out external white supremacist enemies to African Americans(even if only to say who to ignore).




Conclusion:
my gripe isn't really with any given individual(short of maybe Tone & Carnell) and even then I can separate the software from the computer so to speak. Likewise I can separate the ideology & talking points from the individual. This is why I say AssimilationistsDivisivesOrSellouts. I.E. I'm referring to ideas & actions not people per say ...unless those people are perpetrating those actions of course.

To back up a bit and put this in perspective. Most African Americans have no thoughts about any of this type of conversation one way or the other but that's another topic.
 

videogamestashbox.com

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Cause rugged American individualism works so well for black people as it does for whites right?

:comeon:

So many things collective action would help. :jbhmm:



Example I'd like to see.:blessed:

work place investment group - every workplace having a "black business investment group". ($50 dues per check, meet bi-weekly) each meeting assess group financial health then proposes entrepreneurial/investment propositions from dues payers with a 1 year tenor with the group. Afterwards investment opportunities within the larger city. Bi-monthly there is a city wide black business investment group meeting where dues payers with a 1 year tenor(6 previous citywide visits) from the various workplaces in the city field business/investment pitches.

:ufdup:
Lots of people believe in black business creation but are not themselves entrepreneurs. This way they make money by being the silent partner/investor instead of having to come up with a business idea and run the business. The risk is split by all the investors so noone is hit hard. And if you did have a reparations infusion there would be a society mechanism for those funds to be put to use building businesses / acquiring investment assets.





But these ideas can't work in an environment of "rugged American individualism":francis:
 

Unknown Poster

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Money and financial freedom is one of the things that holds us all back as a collective.

Yo that's one of the reasons I felt like I haven't gone as far as I could of in this country as a Black Man. money. These jobs are racist and don't really want to hire us like that and everybody in this country judging you on how much money you have or how much money don't. Then you need money to survive to put a roof over your head feed yourself and clothe yourself. If you don't have a certain amount of money by a certain age people view you as inferior.

Again, if you are in that high value category of black man congratulations there are NOT that many of you. There are many of us with college degrees struggling to find employment. There are many of us that don't even have degrees. There are many of us black men that going even have an associates or high school diploma. 50 something odd years ago we couldn't even attend many of these institutions many black people are attending now.

I just really don't get what's the point of just getting on each other for money and wealth when we don't really Got it like that.
 

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:jbhmm:
Looks like the quickest rout across the poverty line is marriage.
While yes you combine debts, you also combine income and lower overall cost of living caused by having to fund two different households.
As a result you can pay down those debts easier from increased disposable income.
2017-Black-Families-and-Poverty.png

This actually reminds me of a family(couple and 3 kids) I grew up with across the street.
  • Wife - fast food manager
  • Husband - warehouse worker


Apart they probably had like $20k-$30k ....married they prob had like $40k-$60k
Black-Middle-Class-by-Income-2018.png
 

mannyrs13

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That Memphis house doesn't look too bad. Looks like it has potential. Some lawnwork, new kitchen cabinets, mabe a few other home improvement projects. Looks like it would turn into a nice home. :leon:
 
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