Myth of Nas having wack beats

[JustCKing]

Jay has more than a few albums where half the beats are just ok or mediocre. I named them earlier in the thread. We can go into that more in depth if you want. And for every dope Swizz or Timbo beat he's had you can point to an unspectacular Swizz or Timbo beat also. Jay just doesn't get criticized as harshly for picking bad beats as Nas does. No MC does.

A lot of what Timbaland has done for Jay is classic though. He gave Jay top shelf production on the Vol. 2 and 3. The Blueprint albums is where the chemistry was off and they had mediocre to wack songs. They rebounded with "Dirt Off Your Shoulder". MCHG was hit and miss.

Why are we focusing on Jay Z? He doesn't get criticized as harshly because Jay Z's fans didn't box him into one particular set of producers. Nas gets criticized because he has fans that complain when he moves outside of the box they've put him in. So when he has fans that are doing it, haters are going to amplify those critiques and complaints to support their narratives and agendas.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

What's crazy is that everybody talks about Jay having some mind-blowing production, but there was a thread here that was made recently about how The Black Album's beats didn't age well, and most of the people in the thread agreed. So, which is it? The Black Album is usually seen as one of Jay's classics, but the beats don't hold up?

I just feel like when it comes to production, Jay and Nas gravitate towards different things. Jay likes bangers, the heavy hitters that are going to slap you in the face. Nas likes beats that feel like they were made specifically for that song. Like the "Fried Chicken" beat can only be used for Nas and Busta Rhymes' content. Just freestyling over it might not hit the same.

But Nas gets a lot of criticism because people feel like he should be rapping over "Show Me What You Got" or "D.O.A." or "nikkas in Paris." And if he's not doing that, he should be rapping over grimy, Illmatic-style beats, but in some cases (like with the title track for Street's Disciple or "Money Over Bullshyt"), those songs get ignored completely.

FWIW Black Album is one of Jay's most inconsistent albums production wife. So that's definitely one of his most uneven albums. I think the weird thing with Jay is even his unevenly produced albums have truly classic production them. Justify My Thug tends to be one of his more disliked beats, but PSA is arguably a top 5 Jay beat. So the ones that hit still hit very hard. Not to mention December 4th, Allure, Threat, Lucifer, and a couple others. I think a lot of people in thread including myself, were saying that a lot of the Black Album production sounds dated, and a little 'all over the place' in terms of a cohesive album.

Also, Jay gets credit for beats that weren't necessarily his. And I kind of get it. Jay will get props for rapping over What We Do, Welcome to New York City, Murdergram, Hypnotic, Crew Love, Dear Summer, and other very dope beats for Rocafella artists or close friends of his.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

A lot of what Timbaland has done for Jay is classic though. He gave Jay top shelf production on the Vol. 2 and 3. The Blueprint albums is where the chemistry was off and they had mediocre to wack songs. They rebounded with "Dirt Off Your Shoulder". MCHG was hit and miss.

Why are we focusing on Jay Z? He doesn't get criticized as harshly because Jay Z's fans didn't box him into one particular set of producers. Nas gets criticized because he has fans that complain when he moves outside of the box they've put him in. So when he has fans that are doing it, haters are going to amplify those critiques and complaints to support their narratives and agendas.

Your take on Jay and Timbo is the same as mine.

My take with Jay and Timbo is basically this: Everything they did until Jay "retired" was pretty good to incredibly dope. Everything they did when Jay came back from "retirement" was anywhere from wack to to just average.

EDIT: Hola Hovito on Blueprint 1 wasn't even all that bad. It's their weakest joint in Jay's 1996-2003 catalogue, but it's not really all that bad.

 

[Billy Ocean]

A lot of what Timbaland has done for Jay is classic though. He gave Jay top shelf production on the Vol. 2 and 3. The Blueprint albums is where the chemistry was off and they had mediocre to wack songs. They rebounded with "Dirt Off Your Shoulder". MCHG was hit and miss.

Why are we focusing on Jay Z? He doesn't get criticized as harshly because Jay Z's fans didn't box him into one particular set of producers. Nas gets criticized because he has fans that complain when he moves outside of the box they've put him in. So when he has fans that are doing it, haters are going to amplify those critiques and complaints to support their narratives and agendas.

Fair assessment.

 

[DANJ!]

It's not a myth at all... it's a long running criticism of his work that's not incorrect. Nobody said he NEVER picks good beats, but he definitely picks bad ones on a regular basis, and it leads to a lot of his albums being uneven. Before him, KRS-One was also known for this. Some of the greatest MCs have had this issue, and some of their best albums were done when they collabed with producers who knew how to accomodate their style... when they were left to their own devices, they had lots of weak beats.

 

[Billy Ocean]

It's not a myth at all... it's a long running criticism of his work that's not incorrect. Nobody said he NEVER picks good beats, but he definitely picks bad ones on a regular basis, and it leads to a lot of his albums being uneven. Before him, KRS-One was also known for this. Some of the greatest MCs have had this issue, and some of their best albums were done when they collabed with producers who knew how to accomodate their style... when they were left to their own devices, they had lots of weak beats.

I believe it is incorrect. Just cause nikkas say it don't make it true. You named KRS and I agree that he's rapped on some very mediocre beats before and I brought up earlier that basically most of the GOAT level MCs have picked alot of questionable beats they've picked to rhyme on. Can you or anybody on here name at least 5 undeniable GOAT tier rappers that have a solo catalog with better beats than Nas?

 

[kes929]

Does he need to be anywhere? nikka probably influenced Nas to rap in the first place

I bet cash money Destiny don't love this nikka Nas like yall do

I was just asking a question. If you going be constantly on Nas neck about beats or something atleast be able to somewhat match nas success and skillset. My question valid.

 

[Billy Ocean]

Does he need to be anywhere? nikka probably influenced Nas to rap in the first place

I bet cash money Destiny don't love this nikka Nas like yall do

at Kool Kieth influencing Nas to rap.

 

[Mike the Executioner]

FWIW Black Album is one of Jay's most inconsistent albums production wife. So that's definitely one of his most uneven albums. I think the weird thing with Jay is even his unevenly produced albums have truly classic production them. Justify My Thug tends to be one of his more disliked beats, but PSA is arguably a top 5 Jay beat. So the ones that hit still hit very hard. Not to mention December 4th, Allure, Threat, Lucifer, and a couple others. I think a lot of people in thread including myself, were saying that a lot of the Black Album production sounds dated, and a little 'all over the place' in terms of a cohesive album.

Also, Jay gets credit for beats that weren't necessarily his. And I kind of get it. Jay will get props for rapping over What We Do, Welcome to New York City, Murdergram, Hypnotic, Crew Love, Dear Summer, and other very dope beats for Rocafella artists or close friends of his.

To me, The Black Album is Jay's second-best album. Lyrically, he was fantastic. He sounded focused and hungry at the same time. And I thought the production was pretty good overall. Even on the weaker songs (like Change Clothes), he was entertaining to listen to. I can't explain why, but I feel like the production was dark and dirty on this album, save a couple tracks." Threat, Lucifer, Moment of Clarity, PSA, Justify My Thug, Allure, Dirt Off Your Shoulder. They feel more understated, like they're not trying to compete with Jay. There's more space for him to perform, unlike other albums where the production usually has more going on.

 

[Shadow King]

That's false. Life is Good is a classic too and that was just dropped 8 years ago. Distant relatives and untitled was great production wise too

Nah breh if anything this album is a prime example Nas's ability as an MC and artist to carry an album and the point brehs have about Nas choosing beats for a challenge/concept rather than bangers that draw people in.

This album and probably Nastradamus lend to the overstatement.

 

[Zero]

at Kool Kieth influencing Nas to rap.

Its a possibility breh

 

[kes929]

Nah breh if anything this album is a prime example Nas's ability as an MC and artist to carry an album and the point brehs have about Nas choosing beats for a challenge/concept rather than bangers that draw people in.

This album and probably Nastradamus lend to the overstatement.

Agree to disagree

 

[Billy Ocean]

Its a possibility breh

Anything's possible


But I HIGHLY doubt it

 

[904]

And truthfully a lot of Jay's "bad beats" were more so bad songs to me..

The beats were much better than the songs themselves.. And this also works in reverse but it's much tougher lol..

Moment of Clarity is a very bad beat but the song works..

Dirt Off Your Shoulder is a crazy beat but I hate that song..

Nas has made a lot of his meh beats work this way..

 

[TheDarceKnight]

To me, The Black Album is Jay's second-best album. Lyrically, he was fantastic. He sounded focused and hungry at the same time. And I thought the production was pretty good overall. Even on the weaker songs (like Change Clothes), he was entertaining to listen to. I can't explain why, but I feel like the production was dark and dirty on this album, save a couple tracks." Threat, Lucifer, Moment of Clarity, PSA, Justify My Thug, Allure, Dirt Off Your Shoulder. They feel more understated, like they're not trying to compete with Jay. There's more space for him to perform, unlike other albums where the production usually has more going on.

No doubt. It's my 3rd favorite Jay album after RD and BP, and it's my 2nd favorite Jay album lyrically, after RD.

He sounded focused and hungry like you said, and he had a different flow on every track and yet it sounded cohesive. I get what you're saying about the production being darker. Also even on a track like Encore. I wouldn't call it a classically dark beat, but it does sound sad and somber. Kanye said when he made it that he wanted it to really sound like the last time you might hear Jay rap and I always liked that description. December 4th also has kind of that vibe. It has a celebration vibe but also kind of a sad vibe to it too. Exactly like the Chi-Lites joint it samples. Bittersweet. Allure is bittersweet. That's a good word to describe a lot of the production on there.

And truthfully a lot of Jay's "bad beats" were more so bad songs to me..

The beats were much better than the songs themselves.. And this also works in reverse but it's much tougher lol..

Moment of Clarity is a very bad beat but the song works..

Dirt Off Your Shoulder is a crazy beat but I hate that song..

Nas has made a lot of his meh beats work this way..

Very, very good take.