National $15 Minimum Wage Is Trouble

[ogc163]

To sum this article up, there shouldn't be a 15 dollar minimum wage because we don't know the economic benefits (or consequences) for local economies. Urban areas won't get such a big increase, but small town cities will.

Okay, understandable. But I'm also thinking how such a drastic increase to the minimum wage will affect those who are already making more than the minimum. Gravity is already having issues by setting a minimum salary of $70,000. High ranking and important employees have left the company, likely because workers in lesser roles are making nearly as much as them. Most of the value we put in our jobs is the income that we make performing our duties. That is what drives people into schools and keeps people working long hours in hopes of a promotion. If a receptionist is making 5 to 10% less than a high level employee, why would the high level employee be as driven to perform their (likely more) stressful job?

Yeah the article isn't all that controversial and is rather straightforward, but given the comments in here you would think he was putting forward some drastic ant-minimum wage argument.

 

[Bubba T]

Yeah the article isn't all that controversial and is rather straightforward, but given the comments in here you would think he was putting forward some drastic ant-minimum wage argument.

Anything that even seems anti minimum wage will garner that type of response. It is difficult to view the big picture when you are struggling now.

 

[Lifer11]

It's only a problem cause the wealthy will lay off a ton of employees instead of paying them, leading to more unemployment, and then on top of that the small business owners who truly can't afford to pay all their employees $15/hr will have to lay people off too. If everyone got paid more, most people would spend a lot more which would stimulate the economy. If small business owners are given time to adjust they'll be able to afford paying their employees due to business most likely going up. And the argument about cost of living is a weak one, if someone chooses to live in NYC or SF and only makes minimum wage that's on them, either move or get some kind of education to get a higher paying job. Either way the minimum wage should absolutely be raised, the cost of living has increased at a far greater rate than the average salary has. My father bought his house in 1985 for $40,000 and was making right around $40k a year at the time with no college degree, his house is now worth around $300k and it's harder to find a job making $40k a year without a college degree now. His mortgage payment was like $300 a month he paid his house off in like 8 years, that's dam near impossible today. Our generation really got fukked.

 

[Bubba T]

It's only a problem cause the wealthy will lay off a ton of employees instead of paying them, leading to more unemployment, and then on top of that the small business owners who truly can't afford to pay all their employees $15/hr will have to lay people off too. If everyone got paid more, most people would spend a lot more which would stimulate the economy. If small business owners are given time to adjust they'll be able to afford paying their employees due to business most likely going up. And the argument about cost of living is a weak one, if someone chooses to live in NYC or SF and only makes minimum wage that's on them, either move or get some kind of education to get a higher paying job. Either way the minimum wage should absolutely be raised, the cost of living has increased at a far greater rate than the average salary has. My father bought his house in 1985 for $40,000 and was making right around $40k a year at the time with no college degree, his house is now worth around $300k and it's harder to find a job making $40k a year without a college degree now. His mortgage payment was like $300 a month he paid his house off in like 8 years, that's dam near impossible today. Our generation really got fukked.

You are all over the place with this post.

 

[Lifer11]

You are all over the place with this post.

Not really, I summed up the most popular argument against raising the minimum wage, which is really just rich people being greedy and laying people off rather than paying all of their employees more. I also pointed out the small business owners that legitimately can't afford to pay $15/hr, but noted that if it's done in a gradual manner I believe they'll be able to pull it off due to the higher wages stimulating the economy and putting more money in their pockets. Then I pointed out that trying to use the disparity in the cost of living in different cities/states as an argument against raising the minimum wage is a weak one, either the person is comfortable making $15/hr in a big city, or they're not so they should either move or get a higher paying job, but that's no reason to not raise the minimum wage just because $15/hr goes further in Boise, ID than it does in NY or SF. Then I gave an example as to how drastic the cost of living has risen as opposed to the average person's salary, which I believe is the strongest reason to raise the minimum wage.

 

[Bubba T]

Not really, I summed up the most popular argument against raising the minimum wage, which is really just rich people being greedy and laying people off rather than paying all of their employees more. I also pointed out the small business owners that legitimately can't afford to pay $15/hr, but noted that if it's done in a gradual manner I believe they'll be able to pull it off due to the higher wages stimulating the economy and putting more money in their pockets. Then I pointed out that trying to use the disparity in the cost of living in different cities/states as an argument against raising the minimum wage is a weak one, either the person is comfortable making $15/hr in a big city, or they're not so they should either move or get a higher paying job, but that's no reason to not raise the minimum wage just because $15/hr goes further in Boise, ID then it does in NY or SF. Then I gave an example as to how drastic the cost of living has risen as opposed to the average person's salary.

Each plan for a wage increase is gradual. No body of government is foolish enough to change wages overnight as they understand basic economics. They also understand the plight for small business owners, that is why it is written into the law that will affect employers with at least X employees. Employers below that have their own set of rules.

It isn't that simple to 'just move or get a higher paying job'. Why do people keep saying this? You need an education to get many higher paying jobs, and even then, the competition is fierce. It really is a buyers market right now. Where are you going to move to, the boonies? Jobs are even more scarce than they are in the big city.

Also, you can't have a city with only doctors, lawyers, bankers, and car salesman. Who is going to sweep the floors? Who is going to man the food food joints that are in these cities? Who is going ring up people when they shop in retail stores? These are not jobs you are going to commute 1-2 hours for. You need housing for everyone, not just the rich and not just the middle class. Gentrification doesn't boost the economy. If anything, it slowly weakens it.

 

[Lifer11]

Each plan for a wage increase is gradual. No body of government is foolish enough to change wages overnight as they understand basic economics. They also understand the plight for small business owners, that is why it is written into the law that will affect employers with at least X employees. Employers below that have their own set of rules.

It isn't that simple to 'just move or get a higher paying job'. Why do people keep saying this? You need an education to get many higher paying jobs, and even then, the competition is fierce. It really is a buyers market right now. Where are you going to move to, the boonies? Jobs are even more scarce than they are in the big city.

Also, you can't have a city with only doctors, lawyers, bankers, and car salesman. Who is going to sweep the floors? Who is going to man the food food joints that are in these cities? Who is going ring up people when they shop in retail stores? These are not jobs you are going to commute 1-2 hours for. You need housing for everyone, not just the rich and not just the middle class. Gentrification doesn't boost the economy. If anything, it slowly weakens it.

I never said it was easy to move or get a higher paying job, that's why I support the wage increase, but it is possible so if people aren't content or happy with a low paying job in a big city then they have to do what's necessary to get a higher paying job or to move somewhere that they can live comfortably. And nothing I said even remotely implies having a city with only high paying jobs/wealthy individuals. I actually implied the opposite that people can and do make due with low paying jobs in big cities, and that there are plenty of people happy and content living that way. Also, I never spoke on gentrification. Raising the minimum wage doesn't have anything to do with gentrification.

But on the topic of gentrification, I haven't looked at any studies or statistics, but the parts of Philly that have been gentrified have benefitted greatly. Property values have sky rocketed in those areas and helped stabilize the real estate market in surrounding neighborhoods, new businesses have opened that are flourishing, and it continues to spread to surrounding neighborhoods. Now this is just a very small example over a very short period of time, but it's done nothing but good for those neighborhoods so far. I do however have mixed feelings about it because I don't like people being pushed out and priced out of their own neighborhood, but at least they can sell their house for much higher than they paid for it if they choose to make a move.

 

[Bubba T]

I never said it was easy to move or get a higher paying job, that's why I support the wage increase, but it is possible so if people aren't content or happy with a low paying job in a big city then they have to do what's necessary to get a higher paying job or to move somewhere that they can live comfortably. And nothing I said even remotely implies having a city with only high paying jobs/wealthy individuals. I actually implied the opposite that people can and do make due with low paying jobs in big cities, and that there are plenty of people happy and content living that way. Also, I never spoke on gentrification. Raising the minimum wage doesn't have anything to do with gentrification.

What I'm saying is it isn't simple to move. We both seem to agree with that.

But where I sense the divide is:

if someone chooses to live in NYC or SF and only makes minimum wage that's on them, either move or get some kind of education to get a higher paying job.

It's on them that they live in these cities and should therefore get an education or move, but many people already have invested the time and have done both. Do you know how many people work at Starbucks/McDonalds/Macy's etc and have a college degree? Competition for work is tough, and the jobs are located in big cities, so where do you go? Do you go back to school and possibly accumulate (more) student loan debt when you already have a bachelors/masters/Ph.D, or do you move to another area which has less jobs available? Or, do you try to stick it out with a lower paying job in hopes you can find an opportunity elsewhere? But just because they live in a dense area like NYC they should be privy to the poverty level wages because they are a barista? This is where you lose me, because you imply that it is simple like no one has thought of it before. If you work 40 hours a week, you should still be able to pay your rent, buy clothes, and eat without government assistance.

And nothing I said even remotely implies having a city with only high paying jobs/wealthy individuals. I actually implied the opposite that people can and do make due with low paying jobs in big cities, and that there are plenty of people happy and content living that way.

But you kind of do. You said if someone isn't happy with their wage and they are living in NYC or SF they should obtain an education or move. How many people do you really think are happy making minimum wage? They make it work because that is what they have to work with. If everyone did as you suggested the city would be left with no one to fill the low wage positions, which actually contribute to the city just like the doctors and lawyers do.

Also, I never spoke on gentrification. Raising the minimum wage doesn't have anything to do with gentrification.

You never mentioned it. I did. But to say raising minimum wage doesn't have anything to do with gentrification is well...inaccurate. There are definite parallels between the two.

Ultimately we are on the same side of the issue here. Wages should be increased. I just saw you first post and I'm like whoa, lol.

 

[Liquid]

Why do people keep repeating this shyt?

Because it's been repeated by old heads who don't understand how the world works anymore.

That shyt held true UP TO THE 80s

 

[the cac mamba]

. If everyone got paid more, most people would spend a lot more which would stimulate the economy

this, these fukkin people arent SAVING this money. if youre livin paycheck to paycheck that means youre spending almost every dime. in the end instead of sitting in some rich cocksuckers bank account, its being circulated

i dont get who they're selling this sob story to