No 90s Hip Hop Album has Stood The Test of Time Quite Like Mobb Deep’s The Infamous - GOAT Album

[qnsfinest]

@mobbinfms

Glad that OP is such an advocate for your favorite group, but there's at least one glaring inconsistency in the pleas copped about that album.

Making excuses about its record sales compared to the rest of the list. " Bu bu but Loud was small potatoes" doesn't add up when a previously released Loud Records album is on the list. Enter the Wutang

To be fair, most east coast gangta street rap wasn’t selling much.

Biggie- RTD, sold 57k first week debuted at 15. The record sales soared once diddy remixed his songs and made them commercial. Then of course his death doubled his sales.

Nas- illmatic, sold 62k first week debuted at 12, over time it went close to 3 million.

Jay- RD, debuted at 42 (couldn’t find first week sales, over time it went close to 2 million

Wu- 36 chambers underwhelmed as well, sold 30k first week, debuted at 41. Overtime it became a monster.

Considering in real time and first week, mobb deep did very well for infamous, just so happened that their peers jay, nas, wu and big went onto become icons and had more commercial success overtime.

 

[mobbinfms]

@mobbinfms

Glad that OP is such an advocate for your favorite group, but there's at least one glaring inconsistency in the pleas copped about that album.

Making excuses about its record sales compared to the rest of the list. " Bu bu but Loud was small potatoes" doesn't add up when a previously released Loud Records album is on the list. Enter the Wutang

How is a plea being copped?
Is it not a fact that Loud had a corner on a floor in the RCA offices?

 

[get these nets]

How is a plea being copped?
Is it not a fact that Loud had a corner on a floor in the RCA offices?

Wutang debut album is also on that list, came out on same label, about a year and a half before Mobb Deep's breakthrough album.

I think you get exactly what I'm saying.

 

[hex]

@mobbinfms

Glad that OP is such an advocate for your favorite group, but there's at least one glaring inconsistency in the pleas copped about that album.

Making excuses about its record sales compared to the rest of the list. " Bu bu but Loud was small potatoes" doesn't add up when a previously released Loud Records album is on the list. Enter the Wutang

Wu was an anomaly man. Most of Loud wasn't selling like that.

And Wu had the benefit of "CREAM" and "Can It Be...." getting play on urban radio. Mobb Deep never had anything off their first three albums on radio. At least not in the Midwest.

Fred.

 

[get these nets]

To be fair, most east coast gangta street rap wasn’t selling much.

Biggie- RTD, sold 57k first week debuted at 15. The record sales soared once diddy remixed his songs and made them commercial. Then of course his death doubled his sales.

Nas- illmatic, sold 62k first week debuted at 12, over time it went close to 3 million.

Jay- RD, debuted at 42 (couldn’t find first week sales, over time it went close to 2 million

Wu- 36 chambers underwhelmed as well, sold 30k first week, debuted at 41. Overtime it became a monster.

Considering in real time and first week, mobb deep did very well for infamous, just so happened that their peers jay, nas, wu and big went onto become icons and had more commercial success overtime.

Wu was an anomaly man. Most of Loud wasn't selling like that.

And Wu had the benefit of "CREAM" and "Can It Be...." getting play on urban radio. Mobb Deep never had anything off their first three albums on radio. At least not in the Midwest.

Fred.

I'm from the era where we didn't know (or care) about record sales. That didn't factor in how we viewed an album or elevate one over the other. If OP is from the era when The Infamous came out, he is too.

But, if you're going to cop pleas about record sales and attribute it to a fledgling record label......have to explain the sales from label mates who released their album ahead of yours.

 

[JustCKing]

To be fair, most east coast gangta street rap wasn’t selling much.

Biggie- RTD, sold 57k first week debuted at 15. The record sales soared once diddy remixed his songs and made them commercial. Then of course his death doubled his sales.

Nas- illmatic, sold 62k first week debuted at 12, over time it went close to 3 million.

Jay- RD, debuted at 42 (couldn’t find first week sales, over time it went close to 2 million

Wu- 36 chambers underwhelmed as well, sold 30k first week, debuted at 41. Overtime it became a monster.

Considering in real time and first week, mobb deep did very well for infamous, just so happened that their peers jay, nas, wu and big went onto become icons and had more commercial success overtime.

We're talking about Mobb Deep though specifically The Infamous album. Infamous was released after Illmatic, but went gold before Illmatic.

 

[hex]

I'm from the era where we didn't know (or care) about record sales. That didn't factor in how we viewed an album or elevate one over the other. If OP is from the era when The Infamous came out, he is too.

But, if you're going to cop pleas about record sales and attribute it to a fledgling record label......have to explain the sales from label mates who released their album ahead of yours.

Not when most people on the label aren't selling that.

You cats are acting as if you don't know what an outlier is. This would be like asking why everyone on Epic wasn't doing the same numbers as MJ.

Outside of Wu and a couple other people (Pun) most of the Loud roster was going gold, if that.

Fred.

 

[hex]

We're talking about Mobb Deep though specifically The Infamous album. Infamous was released after Illmatic, but went gold before Illmatic.

There's no way to know that. RIAA certifications are when the audit is completed after the label pays for it.

So trying to nail down exactly when an album shipped what is a fool's errand. Wayne had like 15+ certifications updated on a single day, some as old as "C2". It's rarely updated as it happens.

Fred.

 

[get these nets]

Not when most people on the label aren't selling that.

You cats are acting as if you don't know what an outlier is. This would be like asking why everyone on Epic wasn't doing the same numbers as MJ.

Outside of Wu and a couple other people (Pun) most of the Loud roster was going gold, if that.

Fred.

The OP comment about Loud being two cubicles directly implied that they were a fledgling label without the budget to promote the album. Though the House that Wu built was clearly in better shape in '95 than in '93 when they released/promoted Enter the Wutang.
Pretty straight forward.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Tip’s contributions were essential and without him the album wouldn’t have sounded the way it did, but I don’t think he had much in the way of creative input (outside of the three songs he produced of course). What I mean by creative input, is that I believe (and this is all speculation of course) that Havoc was the one to manipulate all the samples to create the beats. In other words, Hav had the ideas. My understanding is that Tip helped with studio tricks to make the drums hit harder and otherwise to make Hav’s beats sound better. Almost equivalent to mixing the album down.

Also, Tip’s name is nowhere on the Shook Ones Pt 2 vinyl single (which of course predates the release of the album). That doesn’t conclusively establish that he had nothing to do with that song, but it is an indication he didn’t.

I didn't mean that Tip was picking out samples, or making beats uncredited or anything like that.

I meant that his influence is felt in that Havoc, being new to the scene and learning a LOT from Tip, drew a lot of influence from him in his early production style (horns on QU Hectic for example is a nod of sorts to Tip). Tip produced a few cuts on the album, and Havoc while creating his own beats likely tried to match that style to some extent, while creating his own, darker-twist.

Tip being very jazz inlfuenced in his production style, and being in the studio w/ them meant Havoc was more likely to lean that way as well for this album. By the end, Tip said he wasn't needed at all and Hav was doing his own thing completely, that's likely were some of the darker, less jazz/horn-influenced beats came in, but i'm not 100% sure.

Funny b/c to me, despite Tip, The Infamous sounds less refined than Hell on Earth, and I prefer it b/c of that less polished, more organic sound. HoE still top 10 ish to me. Maybe that's b/c Mobb was newer at the time? Maybe that's due to 1995 as a whole sounding less refined than 96 (compare OB4CL or LS to Ironman for another example)?

 

[JMD]

about the sales

a lot of factors into The Infamous and specifically hip hop albums

Soundscan now (Luminate) was more accurate than RIAA when it came to sales...RIAA only counted shipped albums to stores and even then the record company paid a fee to have them certified

there was also massive bootlegging in the streets of NYC where I live that affected a lot of albums especially Illmatic, Ready to Die, The Infamous etc.

and even Soundscan was not available to mom and pop shops where hip hop always had strong sales

just saying The Infamous has sold more than reported

 

[JustCKing]

There's no way to know that. RIAA certifications are when the audit is completed after the label pays for it.

So trying to nail down exactly when an album shipped what is a fool's errand. Wayne had like 15+ certifications updated on a single day, some as old as "C2". It's rarely updated as it happens.

Fred.

All that jazz about audits and certifications is irrelevant. We have the certifications for these projects and therefore must go by the information that we have.

Its like saying its no way to know when an album is completed because the album could've been completed months, years, days, or hours before it was released to the public. We know there's red tape that occurs before the album actually drops, but once it is release, whatever date it drops, is the release date. It doesn't matter when it was completed, when it was recorded, etc.

 

[JustCKing]

about the sales

a lot of factors into The Infamous and specifically hip hop albums

Soundscan now (Luminate) was more accurate than RIAA when it came to sales...RIAA only counted shipped albums to stores and even then the record company paid a fee to have them certified

there was also massive bootlegging in the streets of NYC where I live that affected a lot of albums especially Illmatic, Ready to Die, The Infamous etc.

and even Soundscan was not available to mom and pop shops where hip hop always had strong sales

just saying The Infamous has sold more than reported

Arguably, every album has sold more than what has been reported. We can only go by what has been reported. That isn't exclusive to Infamous. Albums still sold regardless of heavy bootlegging.

 

[marleyg]

yO

 

[mobbinfms]

Wutang debut album is also on that list, came out on same label, about a year and a half before Mobb Deep's breakthrough album.

I think you get exactly what I'm saying.

What I’m saying is that Loud records wasn’t some powerhouse label. So if people are going to try to claim that The Infamous is streaming like crazy now because Loud dumped 30 million into marketing and promotion and that’s the reason that people are streaming the album now, 27 (now nearly 29) years later, then I am preemptively calling bullshyt.

The Infamous got the same push that any other dope underground NY album got around that time.

If you disagree and believe that Loud records (which is and has been defunct for quite some time) is the reason that the album is streaming now, then post receipts.