No more King of Swing?

CBoz

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he'd only have to about 60-65 and the fans will get to 100...fukkers be counting numbers at their own pace and not even counting real revolutions :heh:

Yeah this irks me to no ends but stupid crowd is stupid. Even his "100 rotations" in the CHIKARA was really like 80 or so.



Luke Harper and D-Bryan. :lawd:
 
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fukkin horrible. .i remember reading reports back during Goldberg's run in WWE that they wanted him to stop doing the jackhammer
 

DANJ!

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So yeah... guess he didn't get this piece of information, but somehow the reports did. :heh:
 

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This isnt new to wrestling. Most experienced wrestlers know they shouldn't be doing face moves that Pop the crowd if they are trying to be heels. It works against other heels and guys like Cena cuz the crowd boos them anyways. I feel like it would have been smarter to keep him face if they're tryna sell tshirts with the shyt on it. But if your gonna go Heel i agree with the E...its better for your character. Its like Luke Harper doing suicide dives...whose gonna boo him?
 

Art Barr

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:russ::laff::laff:
This gif will never get old

Ryder career has never been the same
Fukk up how he got screw


they could have rejuvenated ryder in two episodes of raw.
if they kept ryder with summer rae, and layla.
then, had him come out like he was a jersey boy guy who gets it in.
plus, they could have given fandango a bit more violent edge.
as a result from the losses, to ryder/rae/layla.


just a missed oppurtunity.
on a real draw who needed to be given another chance, and that was the perfect oppurtunity.


art barr
 

Art Barr

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Why is he a heel? He doesnt come off like a natural heel, he's not dislikeable. Is it cause he's strong and in shape? I gotta cheer for fatsos now? Rick Rude, Triple H, they just look like dikkheads. But the people were feeling Cesaro. Why am I even typing


cluaudio/caesaro, is always a heel.
yet, he was getting crowd reaction from the roh based fans dominating at live events.
as they were single handidly forcing the wwe.
to appease whom they liked, and i personally liked that part about the roh fan crowd coups.


art barr
 

Art Barr

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This isnt new to wrestling. Most experienced wrestlers know they shouldn't be doing face moves that Pop the crowd if they are trying to be heels. It works against other heels and guys like Cena cuz the crowd boos them anyways. I feel like it would have been smarter to keep him face if they're tryna sell tshirts with the shyt on it. But if your gonna go Heel i agree with the E...its better for your character. Its like Luke Harper doing suicide dives...whose gonna boo him?


you need luke harper busting out his lucha base, and caesaro swinging.
there is no way around it,..if you wanted them to be just boring basic heels.
you should never have talent raided them, in the first place.
as they served no threat where they were previously.
now, you have their fanbase stuck and unable to watch what makes them good.
plus, you ruin the draw of the promotion.
trying to squelch what made them dynamic in the first place.


art barr
 

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you need luke harper busting out his lucha base, and caesaro swinging.
there is no way around it,..if you wanted them to be just boring basic heels.
you should never have talent raided them, in the first place.
as they served no threat where they were previously.
now, you have their fanbase stuck and unable to watch what makes them good.
plus, you ruin the draw of the promotion.
trying to squelch what made them dynamic in the first place.

art barr
It's not about being a boring heel. Its about not one upping the face. If you got Cesaro in a program with a face who isnt capable of getting the fans hotter then that swing then the fans boo the face and cheer the heel. This isnt bizarro world where everything is backwards...or the attitude era when everyones a tweener. Faces are supposed to be cheered and heels are supposed to get heat. Its the foundation of wrestling and match psychology...even in smark world 2014. It may have been acceptable when he was in a tag team but if he's going to be put in solo matches and expecting to rise in the ranks you gotta take that heel role serious or you will get depushed real quick. And Harper is anything but boring, even when he isnt doing suicide dives. Cesaro's draw was and is still his unbelievable strength even if his swing got over as fukk.
 

HollywoodP

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Raven: Honestly, it's simple basic psychology there. Here's what the stupid kids today don't get. This is the whole concept of the business in a nutshell and this is WWE style. The babyface outwrestles the heel. He outwrestles because he is either a little better, he's got a little more heart, a little more intestinal fortitude, so he outwrestles the heel. The heel finally has to cheat because the heel is either deep down a coward, an arrogant b*stard, he has some fault or foible that is exposed, so finally because he can't get the advantage because the babyface is either a little bit better or has a little more hearth, he cheats. Now he has some heat. Then he can beat the crap out of him and get the heat. Boom boom boom boom boom. Heat. Finally, when the babyface has had enough through sheer intestinal fortitude and the people are getting behind him, and that emotional connection is there, he has a big comeback. It's that simple. That's the business. And the whole match is geared and based toward the comeback. And that's why you have to have faces and heels like I talked about before, because a match is built toward a comeback. You keep delaying the gratification until the right moment, and then when it's the right moment you blow the big comeback and that's how the people get their rocks off.
 

Art Barr

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It's not about being a boring heel. Its about not one upping the face. If you got Cesaro in a program with a face who isnt capable of getting the fans hotter then that swing then the fans boo the face and cheer the heel. This isnt bizarro world where everything is backwards...or the attitude era when everyones a tweener. Faces are supposed to be cheered and heels are supposed to get heat. Its the foundation of wrestling and match psychology...even in smark world 2014. It may have been acceptable when he was in a tag team but if he's going to be put in solo matches and expecting to rise in the ranks you gotta take that heel role serious or you will get depushed real quick. And Harper is anything but boring, even when he isnt doing suicide dives. Cesaro's draw was and is still his unbelievable strength even if his swing got over as fukk.



this is the wwe, where the heel is typically rewarded for being cool.
only reason he is not being rewarded for being cool.
is the person who is higher up, was never really that great being a heel.
outside of being in card placement boosting programs with:

jericho
rock
mankind
scsa
staredown with taker for no reason at all. leading to programs, with taker as a heel.

caesaro, should be able to keep the swing, and still be a heel.

people marked out for 3d, jelly bean lariats, cattle mutaliation, etc.......
when, those workers were heels, and it is just the wwe creative team does not want or know how to build draws.
so, they want to neuter caesaro currently and stifle his draw.

this company has no idea what they are doing and really never did.
it is ran by a person whose own father said he was inept about the wrasslin business.

if there was no mr t, eye of the tiger.
we may not even be having this discussion.
if there was no flair's braintrust from his protege.
plus, mike tyson being available because of the destruction of his draw.
we would not be having this discussion.

shyt as a matter of fact,...
when, did scsa stop doing the stunner as a heel.

case closed


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Art Barr

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Raven: Honestly, it's simple basic psychology there. Here's what the stupid kids today don't get. This is the whole concept of the business in a nutshell and this is WWE style. The babyface outwrestles the heel. He outwrestles because he is either a little better, he's got a little more heart, a little more intestinal fortitude, so he outwrestles the heel. The heel finally has to cheat because the heel is either deep down a coward, an arrogant b*stard, he has some fault or foible that is exposed, so finally because he can't get the advantage because the babyface is either a little bit better or has a little more hearth, he cheats. Now he has some heat. Then he can beat the crap out of him and get the heat. Boom boom boom boom boom. Heat. Finally, when the babyface has had enough through sheer intestinal fortitude and the people are getting behind him, and that emotional connection is there, he has a big comeback. It's that simple. That's the business. And the whole match is geared and based toward the comeback. And that's why you have to have faces and heels like I talked about before, because a match is built toward a comeback. You keep delaying the gratification until the right moment, and then when it's the right moment you blow the big comeback and that's how the people get their rocks off.


you can not have a mainevent heel in the wwe, who is not perceived and liked as much as a face.
it has been that way since, savage.

they whiffed on it, with the original rock.
all from muraco cause of racism and color.
plus, they damaged the general perception of the typical heel.
by having the typical heel lose in cornball disgusting fashion during the hogan versus heenan era.

yet, with savage...
savage was liked, as a heel.
plus, he always did the elbow.

wwe's heel dynamic is built on soap opera based ideals.
around something more than just wrasslin workrate psychology.
wrasslin workrate psychology of the heel and face has been different in the indies.
since the indy heros saved wrasslin.
hence, why only the roh guys in wwe get over generally, and organically from a grassroots dynamic.
not the soap opera based ideals, in general.
when, given a soap opera based program even if it is bad.
the roh guys will get over because they have a higher understanding of what is to it.
since, the indy heros that saved wrasslin came around in 2001.
plus, damn near created the draw for mainstream streaming video outside of porn.

caesaro is going to stay over.
despite jobb'n to everyone possible in the past three weeks on the domestic aired cable shows.
regardless, of if he uses the swing or not.
as he is not just over from the swing.
he is over because, smarts hold wrasslin crowds hostage and make fans like the roh guys.
by sheer imposing will, in the crowd.
those chants and pops are all manipulated by the smarts in the crowd.
as a matter of fact, anyone who gets over in the wwe.
is from smarts imposing their will, and the wwe tries to fight it but it won't work because they are inept.
they know nuffin about where or what wrasslin is, outside of having a tax id, and publically traded company.
from cutting rosters and payroll, and using a fake profit.
to try to front like they know what they are doing.



art barr
 

Jackson LeRoy Briggs

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This isnt new to wrestling. Most experienced wrestlers know they shouldn't be doing face moves that Pop the crowd if they are trying to be heels. It works against other heels and guys like Cena cuz the crowd boos them anyways. I feel like it would have been smarter to keep him face if they're tryna sell tshirts with the shyt on it. But if your gonna go Heel i agree with the E...its better for your character. Its like Luke Harper doing suicide dives...whose gonna boo him?
You'd have more of a point if the bookers were actually doing more stuff to flesh out Cesaro's heel gimmick besides taking away his signature move...

As it is, they're just genericizing him which is a bad move no matter how you slice it...if you're not going to give him something to fill that gap, even some kind of weird European taunt, why "fix" what isn't broken?
 

BodeineBrazy

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It's not about being a boring heel. Its about not one upping the face. If you got Cesaro in a program with a face who isnt capable of getting the fans hotter then that swing then the fans boo the face and cheer the heel. This isnt bizarro world where everything is backwards...or the attitude era when everyones a tweener. Faces are supposed to be cheered and heels are supposed to get heat. Its the foundation of wrestling and match psychology...even in smark world 2014. It may have been acceptable when he was in a tag team but if he's going to be put in solo matches and expecting to rise in the ranks you gotta take that heel role serious or you will get depushed real quick. And Harper is anything but boring, even when he isnt doing suicide dives. Cesaro's draw was and is still his unbelievable strength even if his swing got over as fukk.

dude, name one time a wrestler changed his move set based off of whether they were heel or face? just one...

when u heel they boo your moves, when u face they pop, it's a natural progression. After WM XXX, the writing was on the wall, nikka shoulda just been a face, feuded with Swagger, won the IC belt... now he's taking a few steps back. Wack ass music, Wack ass ring attire... the thigh straps stood out. He'll work his way out of it tho.
 

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You'd have more of a point if the bookers were actually doing more stuff to flesh out Cesaro's heel gimmick besides taking away his signature move...

As it is, they're just genericizing him which is a bad move no matter how you slice it...if you're not going to give him something to fill that gap, even some kind of weird European taunt, why "fix" what isn't broken?
thats a fair point. But I don't think its the WWE that made him stop doing the move. Its him being more aware, and picking and choosing when to do it. He's done a good job of teasing it to get heat.
dude, name one time a wrestler changed his move set based off of whether they were heel or face? just one
hulk hogan...if you can't personally think of more names than that then just stop start watching wrestling. As to your arguement that fans cheer for the same face moves that they booed when they were heels...maybe if we're talking about their basic moveset that can be true. But fans weren't booing Seth Rollins planchas when the Shield were heels. Fans weren't booing the Cesaro Swing when he was in The Real Americans. Dean Ambrose isn't stomping peoples fingers anymore now that he's a face...Thats what my whole point is to begin with...obviously faces aren't doing heel moves that make them look like scumbags or cheaters...and heels doing moves that are going to pop the crowd louder than the face is gonna make the face look like a bytch ring psychology wise...so they should be used more carefully or phased out until they turn face...which they are already whether you like it or not

and if i'm so wrong about this then what do u guys think is the reason he stopped. I think its obvious the reason he stopped...and its the reason I gave you whether you think its the right decision or not. You can dislike it...me I like the decision if he's staying heel...I've seen the move before, do what makes sense wrestlingwise. Obviously as I stated before...I think they should have turned him face so I agree with you in that regard.
 
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