Noam Chomsky: Members of Migrant Caravan Are Fleeing from Misery & Horrors Created by the U.S.

[Prince.Skeletor]

fleeing to where benefited from their misery.

I've been saying this from the start. You can't over throw governments and cripple countries with sanctions and act surprised when people want to leave.

They will always want to leave, in fact we should act surprised if they Do NOT want to leave. Then we should be like wtfff

That's why when you have all these people being "oh we should welcome them with open arms", that shyt is a bunch of nonsense.
You cannot allow a massive amount of people to just enter the country.
That's why it is important to be against American's foreign policy before having open arms eyes closed.

From liberals protesting at airports and in washington about the muslim ban but not being anti-war when it is war that has muslims fleeing here, to wanting to accept Syrian refugees but not being against Obama selling arms to the Saudis which caused Syrians to flee to wanting open borders for mexicans when it's america's drug war/fast and furious shyt/nafta that is causing mexicans to flee here.

All of it is complete crazyshyt, but people need to wake up
Everyone is fine with re-electing war mongerers destabilizing and burning other countries but are not fine when we close our door to them once they want to leave their burning country.
This is not a sustainable approach, it makes zero economic sense.

it is complete madness!
Every media outlet is lying to you!

Conservatives are fine with war, christian conservatives are almost like the Taliban they all want religious war. But then they complain about blowback.

Liberals want open borders open immigration laws and always accepting refugees.
But they shut their mouth on bombing these people's homes.
And for those who say nah there is an anti-war movement on the left, my answer is NO there is not when those same antiwar people only elect pro-war candidates.
Their protests mean nothing if it does not change their voting habits.
That just means yaaa we are against war.. but.... not really.

We are all our own worst enemy

 

[DEAD7]

fleeing to where benefited from their misery.

I've been saying this from the start. You can't overthrow governments and cripple countries with sanctions and act surprised when people want to leave.

Fair enough...
Good luck to them.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

About several weeks ago I went to ATL, GA.
I took an Uber from my hotel to the Airport, and my uber driver picked me up at the airport.
When I entered the car I noticed his hands and arms, it was full of weird looking bumps, and I then noticed he had some on the side of his face too.
He asked me where you going, I said Canada.
Then we started takling, he was a black man from south carolina and recently moved to ATL.
He asked me "so how do you find canada different from the U.S. politically?"

I told him a story, about how once I went to North Carolina on a company trip, and we all went to a baseball game.
So above the stadium behind all the seats is a restaurant, a big one, and some rooms in the back.
I was in the restaurant with a view of the baseball court, and then the national anthem started.
When it started everyone stood up, hand on heart, some fist on heart, and everyone sung.
I looked around and my first thought was "that's too much nationalism", I actually did not know what to do.
I am not against doing that but I am against it in an ocean of everyone else robotically doing it. But I think I was the only brownskin guy in the room so I didn't know how that would go, so all I did was I stood up but hands in pocket.
And I told him this wouldn't happen in Canada, with that many people hand/fist on heart. That's amercian patriotism, the caring of the national anthem and showing way too much respect to the american flag which is just a stupid piece of cloth.
That's how I differentiated Canada, Canada is not really into nationalism like that.
I myself could burn an american flag, who gives a shyt, it's a piece of cloth it means nothing, and doing so would not be anti-american because again it's just a piece of cloth.

Then the uber driver was like "ya shyt crazy in the U.S." and then he told me how he is not like that.
He told me that his father was in Vietman during the war and he comes from a military family, when in Vietnam his father was exposed to Agent Orange, then when he came back from the war he got married and had a kid.
That kid was him, my uber driver, but because his father got exposed to Agent Orange when he was born he was born with cancer tumors all over his body. That is why he had bumps all over his face and arms. But he told me it's all over his body, I was like oh shyt.
He told me even though he showed all his cancer tumors all over his body to his military family they showed empathy but it didn't change them, they still supported american foreign policy like that.

It's interesting, many people have their own personal stories about why they are the way they are.
Anyhow I thought I would share this, maybe relevant.

Thanks for this. I'm gonna start a thread about personal stories that illustrate American polices negatively effecting the electorate. You're an inspiration!

 

[GPBear]

The Reagan Doctrine was literally to prop up authoritarian dictatorships under the guise of battling soviet totalitarianism.

This morphed into the Bush doctrine, where somehow America (an oligarchy) becomes the spreader of democracy through military crusades.

The rich want the world to be an apartheid state and stir up xenophobia so the globally oppressed don’t unite and overthrow them.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

i dont deny the atrocities america commits, but it's not like every fukkin thing that's wrong with south america is our fault. and it's certainly not the fault of the poor americans who illegals and migrants end up competing with for schools, jobs and housing

In this case it's absolutely true though (and we're talking Central America, not South America).

This is what the whole Iran-Contra scandal was about. This is what the whole School of the Americas scandal was about. This is the fruit of the El Salvadorean death squads that we were supporting. The issues in Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala have been KNOWN to have been caused by the USA for a century now.

Hell, have you ever heard "banana republic" to describe a shytty country with a corrupt government? That term was created in 1901 to describe screwed up Central American nations who got that way because the USA was controlling them via American fruit companies for economic exploitation. The literal definition of "banana republic" was "a country the USA has totally screwed over by empowering a corrupt government solely so big American corporations can profit off of it."

We empowered the tyrants, we funded the wars, we kicked out the socialists, we did everything we could to make those people's lives a living hell. And all for the sole purpose of making sure that Central America stayed a good place for wealthy American companies to run huge plantations that profited off the people's expense.

 

[krackdagawd]

fleeing to where benefited from their misery.

I've been saying this from the start. You can't overthrow governments and cripple countries with sanctions and act surprised when people want to leave.

The CIA have fukked damn near all of latin america and these a$$holes act surprised people want to leave the misery our government created for them.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

By the way, I highly recommend reading Rogue State to get a handle on just how much the USA has done in this area. It's strongly worded and doesn't even try to be unbiased, but it remains factual throughout - he stays with what is known and doesn't embellish things or give conspiracy theories weight unless proof of the conspiracy is really there.


Table of Contents

• Introduction
  
  Ours and theirs: Washington’s love/hate relationship with terrorists and human-rights violators
• 1. Why do terrorists keep picking on the United States?
• 2. America’s gift to the world—the Afghan terrorist alumni
• 3. Assassinations
• 4. Excerpts from US Army and CIA Training Manuals
• 5. Torture
• 6. The unsavories
• 7. Training new unsavories
• 8. War criminals: theirs and ours
• 9. Haven for terrorists
• 10. Supporting Pol Pot
  
  United States use of weapons of mass destruction
• 11. Bombings
• 12. Depleted uranium
• 13. Cluster bombs
• 14. Chemical and biological weapons abroad
• 15. Chemical and biological weapons at home
• 16. Encouraging the use of CBW by other nations
  
  A Rogue State Versus the World
• 17. A concise history of US global interventions, 1945-present
• 18. Perverting elections
• 19. Trojan Horse: the National Endowment for Democracy
• 20. The US versus the world at the United Nations
• 21. Eavesdropping on the planet
• 22. Kidnapping and looting
• 23. How the CIA sent Nelson Mandela to prison for 28 years
• 24. The CIA and drugs: just say ‘Why not?’
• 25. Being the world’s only superpower means never having to say you’re sorry
• 26. The US invades, bombs and kills for it…but do Americans really believe in free enterprise?
• 27. A day in the life of a free country…or…how does the United States get away with it?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Also for how US food policy has destroyed other countries, a good book is Enough: Why the World's Poorest Starve in an Age of Plenty

"For more than thirty years, humankind has known how to grow enough food to end chronic hunger worldwide. Yet while the ''Green Revolution'' succeeded in South America and Asia, it never got to Africa. More than 9 million people every year die of hunger, malnutrition, and related diseases every year - most of them in Africa and most of them children. More die of hunger in Africa than from AIDS and malaria combined. Now, an impending global food crisis threatens to make things worse. In the west we think of famine as a natural disaster, brought about by drought; or as the legacy of brutal dictators. But in this powerful investigative narrative, Thurow & Kilman show exactly how, in the past few decades, American, British, and European policies conspired to keep Africa hungry and unable to feed itself. As a new generation of activists work to keep famine from spreading, Enough is essential reading on a humanitarian issue of utmost urgency."


I actually disagree with one major premise of this book, which is there assumption that Norman Borlaug's Green Revolution was an entirely good thing and the answer to world hunger. The authors are not experts on sustainable agriculture, the environment, etc., and so they just take for granted that the Green Revolution is all good. So take that aspect of it with a grain of salt. But so far as US agricultural policy goes and its effects of farmers abroad, their reporting is top-notch and the stories are poignant.

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Chomsky is wrong unless he’s defending Russia or Iran.

 

[Starman]

You might as well say Black ppl should go back to Africa with that logic

Why? AADOS and migrants seem to be in very different situations. Care to explain this post further?

The CIA have fukked damn near all of latin america and these a$$holes act surprised people want to leave the misery our government created for them.

I'm not surprised, but I don't accept that America is entirely responsible for their current condition. Nor do I think the way to make up for violating is allowing mass migration through our (yes, I said "our") borders, should we even decide to do such a thing. With the guilt trip.

 

[mag357]

When I first heard of the caravan I wondered if the fleeing was because of American foreign policy. That was my first thought.
And lo and behold!!!

And most of the worlds atrocities are because of the one country that is everywhere.
From foreign occupation to govt coups to erect a puppet.
If we want to be patriotic be so about the citizens of this country not by the actions of the corrupt & powerful few.

That's the main issue with the right, too much loyalty to the country more than it's people!

Damn... We are comrades, brother

 

[Strapped]

I could of told y'all this but you'd say fux me

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

Good thread.

 

[BoBurnz]

In this case it's absolutely true though (and we're talking Central America, not South America).

This is what the whole Iran-Contra scandal was about. This is what the whole School of the Americas scandal was about. This is the fruit of the El Salvadorean death squads that we were supporting. The issues in Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala have been KNOWN to have been caused by the USA for a century now.

Hell, have you ever heard "banana republic" to describe a shytty country with a corrupt government? That term was created in 1901 to describe screwed up Central American nations who got that way because the USA was controlling them via American fruit companies for economic exploitation. The literal definition of "banana republic" was "a country the USA has totally screwed over by empowering a corrupt government solely so big American corporations can profit off of it."

We empowered the tyrants, we funded the wars, we kicked out the socialists, we did everything we could to make those people's lives a living hell. And all for the sole purpose of making sure that Central America stayed a good place for wealthy American companies to run huge plantations that profited off the people's expense.

The overwhelming majority of these migrants are Honduran, surprise, we backed their corrupt autocratic President who "mysteriously" amended the constitution to allow himself to run for another term less than a full decade after we allowed the Honduran right wing to oust former President because we wanted the elections to occur on time to deal with the now government.

The US has a DIRECT hand in what's happening right now. And yet Trump and his government want to absolve themselves and pass the buck to Mexico and other Central and South American countries because there is never accountability.

 

[BoBurnz]

Why? AADOS and migrants seem to be in very different situations. Care to explain this post further?


I'm not surprised, but I don't accept that America is entirely responsible for their current condition. Nor do I think the way to make up for violating is allowing mass migration through our (yes, I said "our") borders, should we even decide to do such a thing. With the guilt trip.

The US is literally directly responsible for this caravan's existence. They stood by and supported a fraudulent and transparent power play by a corrupt leader in Honduras and have since provided him with monetary support and international legitimacy from the only power in the region that could have any impact on the decision to keep him in power.