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rapbeats

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The Resurrection of Osiris According to Farrell Till

By Mark Mcfall

In my experiences with critics I have often been faced with the charge that Christ’s resurrection was borrowed from the accounts of the most well known god in all of ancient Egyptian history - Osiris. Indeed, Osiris as explained by one of Christianity’s most out-spoken critics Farrell Till (editor of the Skeptical Review and owner of the critical list - Errancy) seems to show that such similarities do exist. While this article focuses for the most part on Mr. Till’s formulated parallels between Jesus Christ and Osiris, it nonetheless will adequately equip Christians with enough critical information to give a ready response (1 Peter 3:15) to those who have expressed similar analogues.

The best way for me to familiarize you with how the critic approaches this seemingly close similarity is to present a portion of a debate that took place on March 29, 1994, at the Columbus College Fine Arts Hall (Columbus, GA) between Christian apologist Norman Geilser, and former preacher Farrell Till.[1] In that debate, Mr. Till had made the following assertion in his concluding remarks:

“I'll use this time to refer to some things that I didn't have the opportunity to refer to during the regular speeches. Dr. Geisler made the statement that the pagans saviors were not like Jesus because they did not experience bodily resurrection. But I want to assure you, my friends, that that is not so. O-s-i-r-i-s, write it down, O-s-i-r-i-s, he was an ancient Egyptian, virgin-born, savior-god who died, and he was resurrected. You research and you'll find that his mother [sic2] searched for his body that had been torn to pieces, put it back together, sort of like in Frankenstein manner, and he was resurrected bodily back to life. That's just one example that I could give you...He [Geisler] is depending upon your ignorance, people. And I'm not trying to be insulting to you. Your preachers do it all the time. You get the wool pulled over your eyes, and it's your own fault, because you don't know the Bible, first of all, and you certainly know very little about the history of religion. If you would go examine the evidence, you would see that many of the things that he is telling you have no basis in fact.”[3]3]

Unfortunately Dr. Geisler chose not to respond to Mr. Till’s comments (see “The Geisler-Till Debate,” Skeptical Review, 1994, #3 {http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/3/3geis94.html}). But Till asks us (the audience) to do some “research” on Osiris to bear out his assertion. Well, I did, and what I found was sloppy reporting on the part of Till.

The Myth

The most common and complex version of the Osiris myth comes from the Greek historian Plutarch (approx. c.34-125 A.D.) in his work Isis and Osiris. According to Till’s paraphrase of that work found in the archives of the critical list Errancy, he writes:

“Osiris's evil brother Set plotted with others to kill Osiris. This was accomplished by tricking Osiris during a banquet to lie down in a chest that had been especially prepared for him. When Osiris was inside the chest, Set and his cohorts closed it immediately and took it to the Nile and put it into the river. When Isis, the sister-wife of Osiris heard what had happened, she set out to find the chest. The legend is detailed, but to make a long story short, Isis learned that the chest had drifted out to sea and landed on the coast of Byblos. She went there, found the chest, recovered the body, embraced it, and wailed inconsolably. She hid the body in a secret place, which Set discovered, after which he severed the body into 14 different pieces and scattered them throughout Egypt. The myth then continues as Isis searched Egypt, found the body parts, put them back together, and then hovered over Osiris and fanned the breath of life back into his body.”[4] 4]

Mr. Till has for the most part accurately reported the myth up to this point from Plutarch. But, it is the language that Till uses next which implies that he is not satisfied in keeping with the type of terminology used by Plutarch.”[5] Mr. Till writes:

“Different versions of the myth will disagree in some details, but an old inerrantist comment about inconsistencies in the gospel accounts of the resurrection is worth adapting to the Osiris myth: the important thing is that all of the accounts agree that Osiris was killed and resurrected to life.”[6]

Readers should take notice of the change in expression used by Till from “fanned the breath of life back into his body,“ to that of “resurrected to life.” Methodologically, Mr. Till has amalgamated the two phrases in order to make his own exaggerated parallel look real. But scholarship is not so quick to take that extra step. Indeed, Bruce Metzger (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Emeritus, at Princeton Theological Seminary) comments:

“Whether this can be rightly called a resurrection is questionable...” (Bruce Metzger, _Historical and Literary Studies: Pagan, Jewish, and Christian_, pg. 21).

Professor Ronald Nash author of the informative book _The Gospels And The Greeks_ agrees with Metzger’s assessment and explains that “some writers go much too far and refer to Osiris’s resurrection.”[7] Nash sees the terminology used by Till (and others) as claiming far more than the myth allows. This view according to Nash suggests the misleading analogy of a comparison between the resurrection of Jesus and the resuscitation of Osiris. Moreover, while Till is correct in commenting that “different versions of the myth will disagree in some details,” he has exaggerated his point that “the important thing is that
ALL [emphasis mine] of the accounts agree that Osiris was killed and resurrected to life.” To this Professor Nash informs us that:

“Not every version of the myth has Osiris returning to life; in some he simply becomes king of the underworld.”[8]8]

Karl Widemann Professor of Egyptology at the University of Bonn. collaborates Nash’s assessment:

“Above all, the conceptions regarding the most important episode in the god’s existence, namely his resurrection, differed very widely, especially in the later texts.”[9]

Till’s attempt to exaggerate the existing evidence is strained by the data. Even in those instances where the text may be questionable, many scholars are reluctant to refer to it as a resurrection. Professor Nash captures the German scholar Gunter Wagner in one of these moments, Wagner writes:

“Osiris knew no resurrection, but was resuscitated to be a ruler of the Nether world.” [10]

Informed scholars don’t see this as cut and dry as Till would have us believe, and this will become clearer as we continue to examine Till’s claim.

Natural Symbolism

According to the _Encyclopedia Britannica_ under the entry Osiris, we read:

“From about 2000 BC onward it was believed that every man, not just the deceased kings, became associated with Osiris at death. This identification with Osiris, however, did not imply resurrection, for even Osiris did not rise from the dead. Instead, it signified the renewal of life both in the next world and through one's descendants on Earth. In this universalized form Osiris' cult spread throughout Egypt, often joining with the cults of local fertility and underworld deities.”[11]11]

This contemporary secular source understands that “Osiris did not rise from the dead.” Furthermore, upon checking the _Encyclopedia of Religion_ we find that Osiris was “originally a vegetation god.”[12] The death of Osiris symbolized to the Egyptians the yearly drought and in his rebirth the periodical flooding of the Nile and the growth of grain. This of course, represents the pattern of cyclical recurrences of seasons. Professor Bruce Metzger says of this:

“such myths are the expression of ancient nature-symbolism; the spirit of vegetation dies every year and rises every year.”[13]13]

The Christian faith is so vastly different from this type of reoccurring naturalist symbolism. For the Christian, the importance of Jesus’ work was related just to this “once-for-all” (Hebrews 10:10) character of his death and resurrection.[14]

What Did Till Mean?

As a member of the critical list known as Errancy, I had the opportunity to ask other critics if Farrell Till really meant a bodily resurrection to earth, or a bodily resurrection to the netherworld. One critic responded to me by charging that I was misinterpreting Till’s comments to mean that Osiris was resurrected to earth. The critic writes:

“Wrong, wrong, wrong. Till NEVER says in the debate that Osiris was resurrected back to earth. Just show us where he said this.”[15]15]

Immediately after this, Till responded to this critic by clarifying that:

“I may not have specifically said ‘resurrected back to earth’ in the debate, but the myth requires that conclusion, as you will see in a separate reply that I have sent to Mark McFall.[16]

It is clear (if it was not before) from this reply by Farrell Till that I am not misunderstanding him on this. My reasoning for bringing this to the attention of readers is to show future critics who read this article that I am not taking Mr. Till out of context.
 
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acri1

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Meh, I just bow my head until they finish. :yeshrug:

I don't really even bring up religion around the fam, I just nod/shrug when the topic comes up. People's reasons for following a religion are usually emotional rather than logical, so arguing with them about it would be pointless.

I'd rather save the arguing for the Internet. :yeshrug:
 

rapbeats

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...

The Art Of War

Till’s bases for believing that Osiris had bodily resurrected back to earth is summed up in his following words:

“The bodily resurrection of Osiris may have been brief, but it was nevertheless a resurrection back to earth long enough for Osiris to instruct his son Horus in the art of war and to urge him to avenge the death of his father on Set. Whether this was for one minute, one day, five days, or whatever, is immaterial. Mark McFall will simply be engaging in typical biblicist quibbling on the issue if he tries to argue that Osiris's resurrection to an earth life was just brief, whereas Jesus remained on earth for 40 days.”[17]“...After this, Osiris descended into the world of the dead to become their judge and the hope of resurrection to those who still lived on earth.”[18]

Before we tackle this aspect, a brief introduction to a popular scholarly source used by critics is in order. In 1908 the Egyptian Antiquities scholar and critic of Christianity Wallis Budge published a three-volume edition of _The Book of the Dead_ (i.e. ancient religious text of the Egyptians). The first volume consists only of copies of the original hieroglyphic pages of the book, the second volume contains English translations of the hieroglyphics, and the third volume is a vocabulary dictionary.[19] While Budge’s book has fallen out of favor in the Egyptological community in recent years for more updated material, it nonetheless remains a driving force behind critical opponents of Christ’s resurrection.

It is in Budge’s introduction to the _The Book Of The Dead_ (The Papyrus of Ani) that we meet the critics on their own turf. Here, Budge’s research shows that Osiris “returned from the other world”[20] to give those avenging instructions on battle to Horus for the purpose of overtaking Set. Furthermore, after Osiris “returned from the other world” to give the avenging instructions, Budge cites the IVth Sallier papyrus version which seems to flush out the complexities of that discussion. The papyrus reads:

“Horus and Set fought in the form of two men, but they afterwards changed themselves into two bears, and they passed three days and three nights in this form.”[21]21]

The mythical overtones of the results from that discussion are obvious. According to the myth there was no bodily resurrection of Osiris. This is further backed up by the contemporary mythic scholar Anthony S. Mercantante in his “humanities” edition of _The Facts On File Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend_, Mercantante explains that:

“After some time Osiris’s SPIRIT [emphasis mine] returned from the dead and appeared to his son Horus, encouraging Horus to avenge his father’s death.”[22]22]

These authoritative sources contradict Till’s assertion that Osiris “resurrected back to earth long enough [i.e. bodily] ...to instruct his son Horus in the art of war...” Mr. Till in essence has confused the issue.

According to another version as explained by the Egyptian scholar J.H. Breasted in his book on the _Development of Religion and Thought in Ancient Egypt_; reports that:

“Isis brought up Horus without his father [Osiris], but she raised him to avenge his father's death” (Breasted 29).[23]

Here we have a report that Isis influenced Horus “to avenge his father’s death” on Set. The evidence for Mr. Till’s foundation of his assertion is certainly shaky and contradictory at its most crucial point. By Till tapping into disputed details, it leads me to believe that he is banking on overloading any Christian who takes him up on his challenge to “examine the evidence.” In essence, Mr. Till “is depending on your ignorance, people” (Quoting Mr. Till).

Non-Christian authors Georges Nagel and Joseph Campbell in _The Mysteries of Osiris in Ancient Egypt_ explain that:

“The various episodes of the legend are not attested in the same way and with the same frequency. The texts often speak of the battles of Horus and Seth for the heritage of Osiris, and often they mention the laments of Isis over her husband’s death. But with regard to the actual death and resurrection of Osiris they are always quite reticent and usually give us no more than brief allusions.”[24]24]

In light of critical scholarship, Till’s assertions that Osiris bodily resurrected to earth according to the myth is questionable.
 

rapbeats

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......continued...
Research

I asked Farrell Till what sources he used to support his claim that the myth indicates an earthly resurrected Osiris. Till stated that:

“My debate notes were prepared from the versions of the myth as related by Plutarch and Diodorus of Siculus and, of course, the Book of the Dead. I don't have these works in my personal library, because they were obtained on interlibrary loan, but if you want to dispute the details of the myth as I
uncovered them, I'll gladly use interlibrary loan to get the books again. That, however, would take some time. I am personally confident enough in the accuracy of the notes that I took from these works to stand by what I will be saying later on to show that some versions of the myth had Osiris resurrected on earth, where he remained for a period of time before descending into the netherworld.”[25]25]

As Christians we must be skeptical of such flimsy foundations for arguments and demand references to books, chapters, and verses where they occur.[26] Simply being “personally confident” without qualification is not enough. The Apostle Paul long ago warned and urged Christians to “examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good” (1 Thes. 5:21).

The Resurrected Osiris

As we continue to examine the scholarly works on the myth of Osiris. We should take notice of mythic scholar J. Smith; his studies of the myth have shown that:

“The pieces of his body were recovered and rejoined, and the god was rejuvenated. However, he did not return to his former mode of existence but rather journeyed to the underworld, where he became the powerful lord of the dead. In no sense can Osiris be said to have ‘risen’ in the sense required by the dying and rising pattern...In no sense can the dramatic myth of his death and reanimation be harmonized to the pattern of dying and rising gods.”[27]27]

Catholic scholar and archaeologist Roland de Vaux elaborates on this new mode of existence in his book _The Bible and the Ancient Near East_. Vaux explains:

"What is meant of Osiris being 'raised to life'? Simply that, thanks to the ministrations of Isis, he is able to lead a life beyond the tomb which is an almost perfect replica of earthly existence. But he will never again come among the living and will reign only over the dead...This revived god is in reality a 'mummy' god."[28]28]

_The Encyclopedia Mythica_ confirms Vaux’s thesis and explicitly states that:

“They mummified Osiris, and put his body in a lion headed pier. Isis changed into a kite and fanned breath into Osiris. He was not allowed to stay in the land of the living, and was sent to the underworld to serve as king, and to judge the souls of the dead.”[29]29]

_The Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary_ identifies the title given to the mummified Osiris in the “underworld” as “Khenti-Amentet,”[30] meaning “Lord of the Underworld and Ruler of the Dead.” Again, the indications from good modern scholarship is that Osiris was not resurrected back to earth (according to Till’s terminology), but in fact was resuscitated or reanimated to another world or realm in accordance with the language allowed by the myth.
 

rapbeats

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....continued..THE END ..
Burial Locations

Professor Bruce Metzger cites the Greek historian Plutarch who reports that the believers of Osiris still believed that Osiris’s grave was still occupied, Metzger writes:

“it was the pious desire of devotees to be buried in the same ground where, according to local tradition, the body of Osiris was still lying”[31]31](Plutarch, de Iside et Osiride, 359B {20}).

Metzger also notes that:

“no fewer than twenty-three locations, identified by classical authors and Greek inscriptions, clamed to be the place where Osiris’s body lay.[32]

What this implies to us is, is that those who held that Osiris “returned to life” (using Plutarch’s phraseology), also believed that he did NOT bodily resurrect back to earth, but instead, they seem to have believed that Osiris reanimated to the netherworld leaving his corpse in the grave. This of course, is far different from the GUARDED and SEALED tomb of Jesus Christ (Matt. 27:66) out of which he emerged three Jewish days later.

Osiris Insriptions

The following inscriptions have been put forth by critics in an attempt to demonstrate that the believers of Osiris thought that he had resurrected in the flesh back to earth. They are:

"O flesh of Teta, rot not, decay not, stink not." (Recueil de Travaux, t. v., p. 55 ({l. 347}).

"Pepi [Osiris] goeth forth with his flesh"; (ibid., t. v., p. 185 ({1. 169}).

"thy bones shall not be destroyed, and thy flesh shall not perish"; (ibid., p. 55 ({l. 353}).[33]

In light of these inscriptions and others like it, Wallis Budge states:

"This belief may have rested upon the view that the life in the next world was but a continuation of the life upon earth, which it resembled closely, or it may have been due to the survival of semi-savage gross ideas incorporated into the religious texts of the Egyptians."[34]34] (THE BOOK OF THE DEAD, Papyrus of Ani, p. lxxviii)

Budge’s comments show that Osiris did NOT bodily resurrect to earth as we know earth to be. While there is no doubt that Egyptians believed in some form of an afterlife, the bodily resurrection of persons back to earth seems not to be apart of Egyptian thought. Budge writes:

“But while we have this evidence of the Egyptian belief in eternal life, we are nowhere told that man's corruptible body will rise again; indeed, the following extracts show that the idea prevailed that the body lay in the earth while the soul or spirit lived in heaven.”[35]35]

The extracts (i.e. inscriptions) that Budge cites are:

“Soul to heaven, body to earth.” (Recueil de Travaux, t. iv., p. 71 (l. 582) Vth dynasty)

“Thy essence is in heaven, thy body to earth.” (Recueil de Travaux, t. v., p. 170 (Pepi, 1. 85,
VIth dynasty)

“Heaven hath thy soul, earth hath thy body.” (###. Plate XIX., l. 16 (Book of the Dead,
Chapter CLXXV., Ptolemaic period)[36]

All this evidence puts Mr. Till’s original assertion into serious question. If Osiris was bodily resurrected back to earth as we know earth to be, it would only seem likely that he was resurrected in this way according to much later imaginations of writers - namely as late as Farrell Till.
Now please stop it. we did this already on that other site.
 

rapbeats

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I'm not really sure why you mentioned me to read a discussion about Horus and Jesus :dwillhuh:

go read your post again.

i'll give you a hint.. this is within all those quotes.

Before we tackle this aspect, a brief introduction to a popular scholarly source used by critics is in order. In 1908 the Egyptian Antiquities scholar and critic of Christianity Wallis Budge published a three-volume edition of _The Book of the Dead_ (i.e. ancient religious text of the Egyptians). The first volume consists only of copies of the original hieroglyphic pages of the book, the second volume contains English translations of the hieroglyphics, and the third volume is a vocabulary dictionary.[19] While Budge’s book has fallen out of favor in the Egyptological community in recent years for more updated material, it nonetheless remains a driving force behind critical opponents of Christ’s resurrection.

do not reply to me until you've read it all. stop with the nonsense.
 

cleanface coney

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my only problem with atheist is they seem to have to denounce religion in order to get their point across not even the op personally but the ones i met

the idea of religion is not neccessarily a bad thing. i mean living a life of peace andl learning discipline is bad?
people just take it too far and abuse it because it is powerful its a reason why religions laste so long imo when used for good and you believe in they are great books to use as a reference for life

as far as prayin i do it outta respect thats kinda selfish imo if u dont outta spite
 

acri1

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my only problem with atheist is they seem to have to denounce religion in order to get their point across not even the op personally but the ones i met

the idea of religion is not neccessarily a bad thing. i mean living a life of peace andl learning discipline is bad?
people just take it too far and abuse it because it is powerful its a reason why religions laste so long imo when used for good and you believe in they are great books to use as a reference for life

as far as prayin i do it outta respect thats kinda selfish imo if u dont outta spite

Do you know how many fukked up things people have done in the name of somebody's religion tho?

I respect anybody that's doing something positive, religious or not, but it's not like you need religion for that. At all.

I think a lot of people are just tired of religion having too much influence. You got people killing each other over it, preachers in the hood ripping off poor people, politicians using "god" to justify their positions, fanatics bombing people, etc. And that's not even getting into whether any of that is actually true.
 

↓R↑LYB

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go read your post again.

i'll give you a hint.. this is within all those quotes.



do not reply to me until you've read it all. stop with the nonsense.

When I brought up the book of the dead I wasn't making a correlation between the stories of yeshua and any ancient egyptian deities. I'm referring to the declaration of innocence

I have not committed sins against men.
I have not opposed my family and kinsfolk.
I have not acted fraudulently in the Seat of Truth.
I have not known men who were of no account.
I have not wrought evil.
I have not made it to be the first [consideration daily that unnecessary] work should be done for me.
I have not brought forward my name for dignities.
I have not [attempted] to direct servants. [1]
[I have not belittled God].
I have not defrauded the humble man of his property.
I have not done what the gods abominate.
I have not vilified a slave to his master.
I have not inflicted pain.
I have not caused anyone to go hungry.
I have not made any man to weep.
I have not committed murder.
I have not given the order for murder to be committed.
I have not caused calamities to befall men and women.
I have not plundered the offerings in the temples.
I have not defrauded the gods of their cake-offerings.
I have not carried off the fenkhu cakes [offered to] the Spirits.
I have not committed fornication.
I have not masturbated [in the sanctuaries of the god of my city].
I have not diminished from the bushel.
I have not filched [land from my neighbour's estate and] added it to my own acre.
I have not encroached upon the fields [of others].
I have not added to the weights of the scales.
I have not depressed the pointer of the balance.
I have not carried away the milk from the mouths of children.
I have not driven the cattle away from their pastures.
I have not snared the geese in the goose-pens of the gods.
I have not caught fish with bait made of the bodies of the same kind of fish.
I have not stopped water when it should flow.
I have not made a cutting in a canal of running water.
I have not extinguished a fire when it should burn.
I have not violated the times [of offering] the chosen meat offerings.
I have not driven away the cattle on the estates of the gods.
I have not turned back the god at his appearances. at his appearances.

Which is why I said there's WISDOM in texts that preceed the Bible, not that the Bible stole stories.

EDIT: And all the negative confessions:

Hail, Usekh-nemmt, who comest forth from Anu, I have not committed sin.
Hail, Hept-khet, who comest forth from Kher-aha, I have not committed robbery with violence.
Hail, Fenti, who comest forth from Khemenu, I have not stolen.
Hail, Am-khaibit, who comest forth from Qernet, I have not slain men and women.
Hail, Neha-her, who comest forth from Rasta, I have not stolen grain.
Hail, Ruruti, who comest forth from heaven, I have not purloined offerings.
Hail, Arfi-em-khet, who comest forth from Suat, I have not stolen the property of God.
Hail, Neba, who comest and goest, I have not uttered lies.
Hail, Set-qesu, who comest forth from Hensu, I have not carried away food.
Hail, Utu-nesert, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have not uttered curses.
Hail, Qerrti, who comest forth from Amentet, I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.
Hail, Her-f-ha-f, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have made none to weep.
Hail, Basti, who comest forth from Bast, I have not eaten the heart.
Hail, Ta-retiu, who comest forth from the night, I have not attacked any man.
Hail, Unem-snef, who comest forth from the execution chamber, I am not a man of deceit.
Hail, Unem-besek, who comest forth from Mabit, I have not stolen cultivated land.
Hail, Neb-Maat, who comest forth from Maati, I have not been an eavesdropper.
Hail, Tenemiu, who comest forth from Bast, I have not slandered [no man].
Hail, Sertiu, who comest forth from Anu, I have not been angry without just cause.
Hail, Tutu, who comest forth from Ati, I have not debauched the wife of any man.
Hail, Uamenti, who comest forth from the Khebt chamber, I have not debauched the wife of [any] man.
Hail, Maa-antuf, who comest forth from Per-Menu, I have not polluted myself.
Hail, Her-uru, who comest forth from Nehatu, I have terrorized none.
Hail, Khemiu, who comest forth from Kaui, I have not transgressed [the law].
Hail, Shet-kheru, who comest forth from Urit, I have not been wroth.
Hail, Nekhenu, who comest forth from Heqat, I have not shut my ears to the words of truth.
Hail, Kenemti, who comest forth from Kenmet, I have not blasphemed.
Hail, An-hetep-f, who comest forth from Sau, I am not a man of violence.
Hail, Sera-kheru, who comest forth from Unaset, I have not been a stirrer up of strife.
Hail, Neb-heru, who comest forth from Netchfet, I have not acted with undue haste.
Hail, Sekhriu, who comest forth from Uten, I have not pried into matters.
Hail, Neb-abui, who comest forth from Sauti, I have not multiplied my words in speaking.
Hail, Nefer-Tem, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
Hail, Tem-Sepu, who comest forth from Tetu, I have not worked witchcraft against the king.
Hail, Ari-em-ab-f, who comest forth from Tebu, I have never stopped [the flow of] water.
Hail, Ahi, who comest forth from Nu, I have never raised my voice.
Hail, Uatch-rekhit, who comest forth from Sau, I have not cursed God.
Hail, Neheb-ka, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not acted with arrogance.
Hail, Neheb-nefert, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not stolen the bread of the gods.
Hail, Tcheser-tep, who comest forth from the shrine, I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the Spirits of the dead.
Hail, An-af, who comest forth from Maati, I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city.
Hail, Hetch-abhu, who comest forth from Ta-she, I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.
 

cleanface coney

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Do you know how many fukked up things people have done in the name of somebody's religion tho?

I respect anybody that's doing something positive, religious or not, but it's not like you need religion for that. At all.

I think a lot of people are just tired of religion having too much influence. You got people killing each other over it, preachers in the hood ripping off poor people, politicians using "god" to justify their positions, fanatics bombing people, etc. And that's not even getting into whether any of that is actually true.

well yea cuz people taking advantage of it

but see the thing about the b.i.b.l.e or any other book it tells you that they time will come....thats a life lesson....wat gos around comes around
its teaches you life is a test as well

you dont need religion im not really religous like datbut ive come to the decision that eventually i wanna join a religion i just dont know which one yet,
its a discipline..something you can live by but the great thing about the word is that everybody has the choice to listen or read or not. but all n all their books that can be approach in a million different ways....very powerfu shyt imo

thats just how i view it tho
 
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