Now that Kobe's legendary career is over, where does he rank on your all time list?

[Gotright]

1mj
2bron
3kobe

 

[Gotright]

But what does it mean to "get as hot" as Kobe when you go, say, 19-44 (plus 14 trips to the line) to score 53 points? That's FIFTY-ONE possessions there.

Kobe has scored 58 and 60 points in his career in games where he didn't even make half his shots. Kobe's scored over 50 points on less than 50% shooting seven times. The issue isn't how "hot" Kobe gets. EVERYONE who is a superstar gets hot and makes 60% of their shots from time to time. The difference is the degree to which Kobe demanded that he be the one taking the shots.

If Lebron or Curry had as many games where they'd tried scoring 40+ times, do you really doubt that they'd have a hell of a lot more 50+ games?

Basketball is a game of possessions. You don't get more possessions than the other team just by shooting more. The team that wins is the one that scores the most points per possession. Kobe taking a higher % of his team's shots does not help his team in that respect.


I'm not denying that Kobe is an all-time great scorer. He's up there with Jordan, Durant, Baylor, Lebron, Gervin, Iverson... (I'm not counting the guys who had to have someone else feed them the ball.) But calling him the GOAT because he occasionally put up huge totals in regular season games against bad teams....I don't see it. He just took a lot more shots a lot more often than any other superstar took a lot of shots. He wanted the individual scoring accolades more, and so he went out and got them. That doesn't make him a better player.

thats some dam good posting

 

[Remote]

But what does it mean to "get as hot" as Kobe when you go, say, 19-44 (plus 14 trips to the line) to score 53 points? That's FIFTY-ONE possessions there.

Kobe has scored 58 and 60 points in his career in games where he didn't even make half his shots. Kobe's scored over 50 points on less than 50% shooting seven times. The issue isn't how "hot" Kobe gets. EVERYONE who is a superstar gets hot and makes 60% of their shots from time to time. The difference is the degree to which Kobe demanded that he be the one taking the shots.

If Lebron or Curry had as many games where they'd tried scoring 40+ times, do you really doubt that they'd have a hell of a lot more 50+ games?

Basketball is a game of possessions. You don't get more possessions than the other team just by shooting more. The team that wins is the one that scores the most points per possession. Kobe taking a higher % of his team's shots does not help his team in that respect.


I'm not denying that Kobe is an all-time great scorer. He's up there with Jordan, Durant, Baylor, Lebron, Gervin, Iverson... (I'm not counting the guys who had to have someone else feed them the ball.) But calling him the GOAT because he occasionally put up huge totals in regular season games against bad teams....I don't see it. He just took a lot more shots a lot more often than any other superstar took a lot of shots. He wanted the individual scoring accolades more, and so he went out and got them. That doesn't make him a better player.

Repped.

This isn't a Kobe hating post.
It's a fair analysis/opinion.

But stans don't care to think about the players they like in an objective manner.
Nuance hurts the brain.



I got Kobe top 12.
Top 5 is nuts.

 

[Bilz]

I missed how good of an example the David Robinson game was. And there were others like it.

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, Robinson goes 26-41 from the field and 18-25 from the line on the way to 71 points.

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, David Thompson goes 28-38 from the field and 17-20 from the line on the way to 73 points...no three-point line!

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, George Gervin goes 23-49 from the field on the way to 63 points.


Is there something magic about the final day of the season? I just listed 3 of the 10 greatest scoring performances in NBA history by anyone not named "Wilt", and they all just happened to fall on the last day. Coincidence? Or is it just "when a superstar has a reason to take all the shots, he can score a ton of points".

The difference is, other players almost never put up those massive FGA numbers except when they were trying to get a scoring title on the last day of the season. Whereas Kobe did it over and over again. If you're a 44% shooter and you put up 40 shots enough times....on one of those days you'll hit 30% of the shots and only score 30-something, and on another day you'll hit 60% of the shots and score 80.

It's because of Kobe's unique ability to go off with volume scoring at a low efficiency rate so the game remains close. If you hear that Curry has 30-35 in the first half, you know the Warriors are winning by blowout. He has 15-20 more points than usual which means he got hot and the team probably scored much higher than usual as well.

When Kobe had 30-35 at halftime, the game would still be close. He may have been hot, but usually he was just taking 12-15 extra shots to score an extra 15 and if his teammates had taken those shots instead, they would have been in the same position. In other words, him scoring more didn't put the team in a better position, he was just getting credit for points they would have scored anyway.

 

[Columbo]

Numero uno

 

[deacon 12]

I have him Top 5 after Jordan, Kareem, Wilt and Russell....if I disrespected anyone by putting Kobe in the top 5, let me know and I'll reconsider if the argument is persuasive.

I think your trolling here a little bit but this is my logic in how to determine my top 5 players you just know greatness when you see it but you take the 2 best players ever at their position criteria of being the best how many rings do yo have as the big dog on your team then individual awards i.e mvps/scoring titles/defense achievements then with those ten players you make all time first and second teams and my all time first team is Kareem,Duncan,Lebron,Jordan,Magic then I just chose in this era with each man still having the same physical stats as in there prime going 1 on 1 full court neighborhood public park i.e. hood rules to 30 who would I bet $100 on my pick and it is bias would be Lebron

 

[deacon 12]

Lol bron not even top 2 of his generation Kobe and curry >>>bron

I been saying this a lot about not knowing if someone is trolling or not but for people who dismiss LeBron so easily and I understand even though in my opinion the best player in the league without question for the last 5 seasons including this one his personality is lightweight bytchy but this nikka could legitimately be a multiple allstar at every position in a 15 season career and in my not great but better than average NBA knowledge I don't see anyone doing that for full seasons not playoffs

 

[newworldafro]

WOAT serious photoshoot

 

[Trece]

I think your trolling here a little bit but this is my logic in how to determine my top 5 players you just know greatness when you see it but you take the 2 best players ever at their position criteria of being the best how many rings do yo have as the big dog on your team then individual awards i.e mvps/scoring titles/defense achievements then with those ten players you make all time first and second teams and my all time first team is Kareem,Duncan,Lebron,Jordan,Magic then I just chose in this era with each man still having the same physical stats as in there prime going 1 on 1 full court neighborhood public park i.e. hood rules to 30 who would I bet $100 on my pick and it is bias would be Lebron

This is where your argument breaks down, if you are claiming "hood rules" and then putting 100 on Bron, I dont know what to say to your soon to be broke ass. Bron is the most mentally fragile of your top 5 and would crawl into a shell against the all time greats. Bron needed to find an alpha (Wade) to get those two championship rings. I am not going to put someone in my top 5 who has displayed the level of bytchassness that Lebron has, it just wouldnt be fair. A man that is as comscious of his stats as Lebron is has managed to make his case on inflated numbers. The only argument I can see for Bron is that he took bad teams to the finals in the weak east 5-10 years ago but i am not letting him fool me off the super team championships. If he wins now with the Cavs then he jumps up a few spots in my book, until then enjoy this 8 seed.

 

[deacon 12]

This is where your argument breaks down, if you are claiming "hood rules" and then putting 100 on Bron, I dont know what to say to your soon to be broke ass. Bron is the most mentally fragile of your top 5 and would crawl into a shell against the all time greats. Bron needed to find an alpha (Wade) to get those two championship rings. I am not going to put someone in my top 5 who has displayed the level of bytchassness that Lebron has, it just wouldnt be fair. A man that is as comscious of his stats as Lebron is has managed to make his case on inflated numbers. The only argument I can see for Bron is that he took bad teams to the finals in the weak east 5-10 years ago but i am not letting him fool me off the super team championships. If he wins now with the Cavs then he jumps up a few spots in my book, until then enjoy this 8 seed.

I see your a anyone but lebron guy I going to put it this way whatever you think of lebron unless you think he would let someone physically manhandle him with out doing the same when allowed if you think this to be true then there is no way to have a logical conversation with you but in my opinion in 1 on 1 it comes down to speed,strength,intelligence,heart and in my top 5 he's #1 in speed and #1in strength he has 27 pounds of muscle on kareem and 17 on Duncan in there physical prime not during their skill set prime I know muscles don't always translate to strength but if I had to choose two guys the same weight but one was in good shape and the other was in great shape I think the latter would have a higher squat number and I combined intelligence and heart into being the best at what you do=mvp and when it comes to this he's #3 #4 if you go by finals so those are my strongest reasons why I think he's already the most talented NBA player ever and to me in the most simplistic way that means the best not most decorated player the best

 

[Trece]

I see your a anyone but lebron guy I going to put it this way whatever you think of lebron unless you think he would let someone physically manhandle him with out doing the same when allowed if you think this to be true then there is no way to have a logical conversation with you but in my opinion in 1 on 1 it comes down to speed,strength,intelligence,heart and in my top 5 he's #1 in speed and #1in strength he has 27 pounds of muscle on kareem and 17 on Duncan in there physical prime not during their skill set prime I know muscles don't always translate to strength but if I had to choose two guys the same weight but one was in good shape and the other was in great shape I think the latter would have a higher squat number and I combined intelligence and heart into being the best at what you do=mvp and when it comes to this he's #3 #4 if you go by finals so those are my strongest reasons why I think he's already the most talented NBA player ever and to me in the most simplistic way that means the best not most decorated player the best

I agree that Bron is #1 in speed and #1 in strength, I will even go as far as to say he is the most athletically gifted NBA player of all time. BUT dude is fragile and soft and would easily be the cat getting turned out in the prison yard all time NBA game you speak about. Sorry breh but until dude wins a chip while leading a team as the alpha i cant put him in my top 5.

 

[waltthizzney]

Bron an all time great but doesn't have a jump shot brahs

its MJ 1 Kobe 2

 

[deacon 12]

I agree that Bron is #1 in speed and #1 in strength, I will even go as far as to say he is the most athletically gifted NBA player of all time. BUT dude is fragile and soft and would easily be the cat getting turned out in the prison yard all time NBA game you speak about. Sorry breh but until dude wins a chip while leading a team as the alpha i cant put him in my top 5.

Damn homie I just looked at your avi and it explains your post also pertaining to your avi Jordan never won without pippen and during kobe's 3 peat he was not the big dog on kobe's second championship run he had a top 20 player in gasol and talent wise and state wise when healthy a top 3 center in bynum in lebron's run he also had a top 20 player in bosh and a not so healthy wade and this lame as alpha shyt you speak of do you remember wade's prior 2 seasons before bron came through and bosh's I believe in those 2 seasons I think lebron had mvp season or two

 

[DoubleClutch]

Top 5 talent. Top 10 career

 

[promethius]

Ranking players is such a subjective thing especially across eras. But for me I have to start with Jordan at 1 based on his accomplishments, impact on basketball, memorable moments, high profile, and aesthetics of his game. Even tho Kobe isn't the most decorated player ever he ranks pretty high in every category. So based on all that I put Kobe in the 2-4 range. Definitely KAJ and Magic can be ranked above Kobe but beyond that I feel Kobe makes a really strong case for being ranked above the rest of the field.

5 rings , 3rd on the all time scoring list, the all nba selections/all defensive selections , lone mvp, finals mvp's ,18 time all-star, 20 years with the same team, career spanning across multiple generations, 81 points, 62 in 3 quarters, baptizing Dwight, Olympic Gold Medal Game, Torn achilles free throws, 60 point farewell, extreme clutch shot/tough shot making ability, possibly most skilled player ever, legendary work ethic, global icon especially in China etc.