Obama cautions freshman House Dems of liberal policies and their price tag

[Cynic]

breh, that whole notion is complete bullshyt. you think the wealthy in the 50s were just bending over to let the gov take 90 percent of their money loopholes are as old as time

10 million is too low by the way, this isnt the soviet union. id support it kicking in over 30 million

It's not you dimwit. Pre-Reagan this was the mantra ...

 

[the cac mamba]

It's not you dimwit. Pre-Reagan this was the mantra ...

i refuse to believe that an effective 90 percent marginal tax rate was ever really carried out, and they REALLY paid 90 percent. pull up my bad faith playbook if you want

 

[wtfyomom]

i refuse to believe that an effective 90 percent marginal tax rate was ever really carried out, and they REALLY paid 90 percent. pull up my bad faith playbook if you want

it wasnt but lets say it was nominally 90 and effectively 40-50, now its what after the last trump bill in the 20s or smthg? and with loopholes its practically nothing, thats a huge difference

 

[the cac mamba]

it wasnt but lets say it was nominally 90 and effectively 40-50, now its what after the last trump bill in the 20s or smthg? and with loopholes its practically nothing, thats a huge difference

no, it's 37 under trump, down from 39.5 under obama

 

[Cynic]

i refuse to believe that an effective 90 percent marginal tax rate was ever really carried out, and they REALLY paid 90 percent. pull up my bad faith playbook if you want

Only a small number of people made the amount required to trigger that top tax rate

 

[Robbie3000]

it wasnt but lets say it was nominally 90 and effectively 40-50, now its what after the last trump bill in the 20s or smthg? and with loopholes its practically nothing, thats a huge difference

This. Corporate tax rates should also be raised if for no other reason than to incentive corporations to invest back into the business rather than doling out low tax profits to investors.

There needs to be a balance in the force. Shareholders shouldn’t be the only ones reaping the benefits the economy.

 

[hashmander]

Obama still rolling with that Simpson-Bowles bullshid. He needs to talk to Stephanie Kelton which many of the 2020 candidates are doing and looking at MMT.

Simpson-Bowles? more like Paul Krugman.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

Meh, he's right. Youre going to have to pick between healthcare or Green New Deal.


Plot twist:
We cant criticize the cost of the military budget as a way to criticize warmongering if progressives want to go down this path.

i dont agree with this. its not that the only problem with the military budget is its size, its that the money being spent on it is not tangibly benefitting the american people and could be better spent on other programs and policies.

 

[Pressure]

i dont agree with this. its not that the only problem with the military budget is its size, its that the money being spent on it is not tangibly benefitting the american people and could be better spent on other programs and policies.

Ill have to look deeper at the cost breakdown, but i thought the majority of the cost was on personnel, their healthcare, and interest from borrowing money.

The argument by progressives and MMT is that the money is going back into the economy, which is the same for the vast majority of the money spent on wars.

Again, how we distribute the money only matters with the current logic if there's a finite amount of money we can borrow, which under the current suggestion is considered false.

We could just print money to fund our wars.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

Ill have to look deeper at the cost breakdown, but i thought the majority of the cost was on personnel, their healthcare, and interest from borrowing money.

The argument by progressives and MMT is that the money is going back into the economy, which is the same for the vast majority of the money spent on wars.

Again, how we distribute the money only matters with the current logic if there's a finite amount of money we can borrow, which under the current suggestion is considered false.

We could just print money to fund our wars.

a lot of it (about 1/4) is personnel but a larger portion is on operations and management. procurement and r&d is about another fourth. obviously its not like you can just cut all this shyt and expect there to be no problems. but i do think the amount spent isnt appropriate with the domestic concerns we have.
and while the money spent on wars goes back into our economy thats at a much greater human cost, both for our populations and others, than something like universal healthcare.

 

[Pressure]

a lot of it (about 1/4) is personnel but a larger portion is on operations and management. procurement and r&d is about another fourth. obviously its not like you can just cut all this shyt and expect there to be no problems. but i do think the amount spent isnt appropriate with the domestic concerns we have.
and while the money spent on wars goes back into our economy thats at a much greater human cost, both for our populations and others, than something like universal healthcare.

All of this is true, but outside of it's general moral and ethical concerns it operates under the traditional framework that we can only borrow so much, spend so much, and print so much money.

But if we're now saying we can just print more money to fund the programs we want despite our debt and deficit there's no longer any incentive for defense hawks to dial back their spending. That being the argument that we can't have nice things because we're spending too much on the military.

I imagine that's by design to ward off conservative and moderate criticism of progressive proposals, but it then becomes dishonest to me to suggest others shouldn't do the same and then be taken seriously by them.

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

All of this is true, but outside of it's general moral and ethical concerns it operstes under the traditional framework that we can only borrow so much, spend so much, and print so much money.

But if we're now saying we can just print more money to fund the programs we want despite our debt and deficit there's no longer any incentive for defebse hawks to dial back their spending. That being the argument that we can't have nice things because we're spending too much on the military.

I imagine that's by design to ward off conservative and moderate criticism of progressive proposals, but it them becomes dishonest to me to suggest others shouldn't so the same and be taken seriously by them.

yeah i dont personally use this framework and it doesnt really make sense in my idea of economics. i dont have strong views on it though, economics is not an area of expertise for me so i dont know how sound it actually is. i think we should be looking from the framework that there is only so much to spend and that we need to offset costs in one area with those from another (whether cutting costs in another area or raising taxes)

 

[Pressure]

yeah i dont personally use this framework and it doesnt really make sense in my idea of economics. i dont have strong views on it though, economics is not an area of expertise for me so i dont know how sound it actually is. i think we should be looking from the framework that there is only so much to spend and that we need to offset costs in one area with those from another (whether cutting costs in another area or raising taxes)

I agree.

On a slight tangent, I wonder how much having a strong military aids the flexibility of MMT.

 

[FAH1223]

I agree.

On a slight tangent, I wonder how much having a strong military aids the flexibility of MMT.

US Dollar is the world's reserve currency in part because of our empire.

Oh and speaking of price tags



We spent $2.8 trillion on healthcare in 2009.

We are at $3.5 trillion as of 2017. Jayapal is putting it at $3.9 trillion coming soon. $5.5 trillion per year at the end of the next decade.

Just insane.

 

[DEAD7]

What’s the point of winning if nothing progressive gets done? Hopefully the days of incrementalism in the Dem party are done.

Losing does more damage than winning and doing nothing.
Progressives don’t understand this.

Trump is the worst president in history and it’s an uphill battle for the current DNC...
Really think about that.

America isn’t a European country and it’s citizens don’t have the world views or values that Europeans do.
Policies there are decades from being a reality here.