Obama Vows New Push to Close Guantanamo

[Blackking]

you guys just confused my stance on this issue. However, I believe one of you is a lawyer or something- so I'll look more into those points that he brought up.


Either way, Obama is weak (or pretends to be) as fcuk. He pushes for a lot of things, most of those don't happen unless it's a gay rights issue or anti-privacy rights issue.

If he does accomplish this, then that would be invaluable for our nation. That prison makes us look bad to the world, plus it's expensive to run, the people have no court appearances, people end up there without being charged with sh1t, and they are having to force feed inmates through tubes because of hunger strikes.

Ending it would get a good precedent to anyone who wants to fight in the future against being imprisoned with no trial because of suspicion of terror.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

According to Human Rights Watch, of the 166 detainess still at Gitmo only 6 of them have been formally charged since Congress blocked the trials in US federal courts.

Im sure either Obama had his reasons or it wasnt Obama's fault. Either way we cant blame Obama for what is happening w/his military & the judicial system of the country he is the president of.

 

[Type Username Here]

What good is closing Gitmo if the indefinite detention continues?

Obama always tries to act like he's a powerless observer to all of this. Sure, he might have backlash in closing Gitmo, but what is stopping him from ordering the Military and/or Justice Department from charging these people with crimes and giving them a god damn trial? Keep Gitmo open for all I care, just give people their god damn right to prove their innocence and confront the evidence against them in a courtroom.

I don't need to remind most of you the Obama's Administration stances on indefinite detention, do I?

You're rambling with various links and semi-misapplying the law, but I'll leave it alone. I specifically spoke on the troubles with closing Gitmo, indefinite detention in and of itself is a much larger subject which we can address in a separate thread, and we can criticize much of the world on it. He and Hagel will certainly transfer out the people slated to be transferred out prior to the 2009 incident. Per the policy he instituted the status of individuals is reviewed every 3 years to determine if they're still a threat. Those guys, especially the Yemen guys, will go home. As for the remaining people, they should be charged. I don't think there's any question about that.

Ok, then what the fukk was the point of you replying to my original post above? Reviewing someone every 3 years still constitutes indefinite detention, which was the sole point of my post.

Initially, the Obama administration halted military tribunals for those people as they attempted to plan for civilian trials on US soil as part of a greater plan to close Guantanomo Bay (yeah, it seems sort of counter-intuitive in certain ways, but that was part of the plan...though the attorney hired to do just that was fired after his first year in the administration, but that's another story..and no one wants my DC story time). But after Congress placed a ban on trying these people in US federal courts he lifted his ban and restarted military tribunals or at least gave the green light to restart them in 2011. That's when I graduated from college and stopped paying attention. Now, if these charges have not been brought up and none of these people haven't been tried at all since then, then that's very damning and leads me to believe politics got in the way.

But I have no access to that information.

You didn't say a god damn thing in this entire post that contradicts anything I said or any of the articles/sources I brought up. You're trying to argue just for the sake of it.

People want Gitmo closed because of indefinite detention and torture. If you close Gitmo, yet keep those things, what the hell is the point BarNone?

 

[daze23]

People want Gitmo closed because of indefinite detention and torture. If you close Gitmo, yet keep those things, what the hell is the point BarNone?

because many of them have already been 'cleared for release', but they're stuck in this stupid limbo where they have nowhere to go

 

[Type Username Here]

because many of them have already been 'cleared for release', but they're stuck in this stupid limbo where they have nowhere to go

So, what you're saying is that we are holding these innocent people prisoner indefinitely?

 

[daze23]

So, what you're saying is that we are holding these innocent people prisoner indefinitely?

yes, but they need to establish some kind of logistics if they're ever going to go anywhere. we're in this situation, how do we get out of it? we could say they should go free today, but exactly how does that happen, and what does it mean (to be "free", but stranded on an island 1000's of miles from 'home')?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

yes, but they need to establish some kind of logistics if they're ever going to go anywhere. we're in this situation, how do we get out of it? we could say they should go free today, but exactly how does that happen, and what does it mean (to be "free", but stranded on an island 1000's of miles from 'home')?

What logistics do you need to buy someone a plane ticket

 

[daze23]

What logistics do you need to buy someone a plane ticket

money, and more importantly, a destination. not to mention all the paperwork needed to travel and possibly live in a foreign land

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

money, and more importantly, a destination. not to mention all the paperwork needed to travel and possibly live in a foreign land

You dont think it costs money to keep these folks detained?

And you can send them back wherever you picked them up, or wherever they hold citizenship

Plus I think you strongly underestimate the US' pull... you really think they would have problems getting an Afghan citizen back to Afghanistan?

 

[daze23]

You dont think it costs money to keep these folks detained?

yes, but it takes those logistics I was talking about to get money budgeted for one thing, to go somewhere else. you can't just do it like Phil Knight

And you can send them back wherever you picked them up, or wherever they hold citizenship

Plus I think you strongly underestimate the US' pull... you really think they would have problems getting an Afghan citizen back to Afghanistan?

FTA

The U.S. government will not send some prisoners back to their homelands because of instability or concerns over mistreatment. Most countries are reluctant to accept them for resettlement when the United States itself will not take them.

you can deny that if you want, but it's the premise I based my statement on

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

They werent our problem before we picked them up, they shouldnt be our problem afterwards.

We should give em some money and a plane ticket and be done with it. Holding them indefinitely is not an option

 

[No1]

According to Human Rights Watch, of the 166 detainess still at Gitmo only 6 of them have been formally charged since Congress blocked the trials in US federal courts.

FTA

What is that supposed justification for doing this, I literally stopped paying attention after the Greg Crag v. Rahmn and others battles.

For those who want a good picture of how the policies changed check out what time wrote then on the fall of Craig http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1940673-1,00.html

I'll look into this further when I have the time. It's easier to call bullshyt when I know what the supposed justification for not trying them is.

 

[daze23]

They werent our problem before we picked them up, they shouldnt be our problem afterwards.

We should give em some money and a plane ticket and be done with it. Holding them indefinitely is not an option

do doubt. but we have to figure out the logistics of how exactly that's going to happen

"shouldn't" is water under the bridge. they are our problem now

 

[Jello Biafra]

I am curious how many times the administration has taken advantage of the power granted by Congress in 2012 to waive restrictions against releasing Gitmo detainees on a cse by case basis to countries that are considered to have less than ideal security issues?

 

[MeachTheMonster]