Official War With Iran Thread

[FAH1223]

 

[FAH1223]

 

[King Kreole]

The Supreme Leader has the power of the judiciary, executive, legislature and is commander and chief of the military. As well as control over state media.
...
Exceptions: Challenges generally arise in the form of mass public protests or in times of acute regime crisis rather than through institutional, legal channels.

You're talking about theory, like how Congress is supposed to be the sole body capable of declaring war. I'm talking about reality/practice, like how the President actually acts outside the bounds of the written rules. The Supreme Leader has to balance interests from different factions to maintain a stable regime. He's not just in there doing whatever he wants. Same as almost every other world leader.

Do these factions have a name? The wear a Hawaiian shirt on Wednesday faction?

The moderate faction in Iranian politics is generally known as Reformists, and the conservative faction is generally known as Principlists. Are you not aware of this?

“Dirty brown terrorists” ok buddy we get it, you don’t need to lay it on quite so thick?

Let’s dig into this “we are killing all the hippies so the Reaganites can get into power” charge...

First of all, the article you cited is from 2023. The next year, President Pezeshkian was elected on a Reformist platform, and the extent of conservative cultural practices in Iran being dogmatically enforced by the state - like mandatory hijab - had started to wane. So the conclusion of the article that you're parroting, that "Progressive change will remain a scarce commodity in the near future.", is dubious.

Second, you're now conceding I was right in the fundamental argument we're having. You started our exchange by denying the existence of meaningful factionalism in Iranian politics at all, and that Iranian policy is just a result of the individual dictates and desires of the Supreme Leader. And now you're citing articles detailing the history of the bitter factionalist fights taking place between the hardliners and the reformists with impact on Iranian policy like JCPOA. The article says that the reformists have been recently demoted, which by definition means they were recently in a place of relatively significant power.

So the article claims there are only hardliners in power who are only challenged by the super duper hardliners. Now let’s cross check this with what we know about Iranian foreign policy


1. Gave billions to Assad and sent soldiers to Syria to help quash rebellion

2. Gave billions to Hesbollah and Hamas and Houthi’s

3. Gave military support to Russias invasion of Ukraine

4. Maximum state repression


Yep. Not seeing a lot of reform.

Oh ok so it's not Reformists moderates vs Principlists hardliners, it's hardliners vs "super duper hardliners"...

But yeah, those are the only 4 things the Iranian government has done with regards to foreign policy, definitely no negotiations with the United States over nuclear policy, definitely no telegraphed strikes pulling punches against Israel during the 2024 strikes to deescalate, definitely no appeals to the United Nations for application of international law and diplomacy as a resolution to this conflict. Just maximalist evil empire stuff. Got it.

Shia millenarianism...

@King Kreole

Dueling at the End of Times Sunni and Shia Narratives and the Potential for Escalation

October 18, 201

www.washingtoninstitute.org

Sunni believe the savior will come in the future, Shia believe the savior is alive and in hiding.


They also believe the messiah only comes in the midst of an apocalypse

Signs of the End Times - Shia Muslim Scriptures

What do we find about the prophesied End Times in the books of Shia Islam?

themahdi.wiki

Why would an end-time death cult respond to having the United States bomb their nuclear facility with diplomatic negotiations?

 

[King Kreole]

Yes Western governments are more complex and egalitarian than Irans. We don’t have a Supreme Leader who follows a 9th century apocalypse narrative who holds unchecked authority over all state apparatuses.

Trump still operates within the framework of the law. He has had most of his executive orders rescinded or challenged in court by Democratically appointed judges.

He immigration platform was so unpopular he has told his staff to stop implementing but and those who were at the forefront of the spectacle have resigned in disgrace.

Even his recent military adventurism is largely colored by the fact the republicans are likely to be completely out of power in year.


As for your last point, if you are going 0-3 so far with massive losses in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria and your one political ally is a flaky self serving Russia then maybe it’s time to negotiate from a position of weakness because that’s the reality of the situation.

It’s no surprise that as the arms were cut off eventually Israel and America would come for the head.

As Praetorian Quintus in gladiator proclaimed “people should know when they are conquered”

...the Supreme Leader who "follows a 9th century apocalypse narrative" is so scared of the degradation of his 21st century geopolitical allies that he's rationally cowed into negotiating a diplomatic resolution? You see how your bigotry is leading you to take ridiculous and contradictory position?

 

[Mister Terrific]

You're talking about theory, like how Congress is supposed to be the sole body capable of declaring war.

Legality of Latest Iran Attack in Question - FactCheck.org

Many Democrats have claimed that President Donald Trump didn’t have the legal authority to unilaterally order the Feb. 28 joint military airstrikes with Israel that resulted in the death of the supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. We'll review what experts already told us in similar...

www.factcheck.org

I'm talking about reality/practice, like how the President actually acts outside the bounds of the written rules. The Supreme Leader has to balance interests from different factions to maintain a stable regime. He's not just in there doing whatever he wants. Same as almost every other world leader.

You have failed to demonstrate this. There is no indication that the Supreme Leader is at any risk of being countermanded by any faction in the Iranian government. The Supreme Leader appoints the so-called “opposition” from a list of pre approved candidates and the only theoretical checks on his power are also appointed by him.

Iran being dogmatically enforced by the state - like mandatory hijab - had started to wane. So the conclusion of the article that you're parroting, that "Progressive change will remain a scarce commodity in the near future.", is dubious.

And then murdered thousands of protestors.

Second, you're now conceding I was right in the fundamental argument we're having. You started our exchange by denying the existence of meaningful factionalism in Iranian politics at all,

I still am. Controlled opposition isn’t opposition. Opposition without executive or judicial or military authority isn’t opposition.


Let me put it to you this way, remember in the Matrix where Neo confronts the Architect, and the Architect tells him he made Neo because without the belief a system can be challenged that the system would collapse on itself. So the Matrix generated an anomaly to satisfy the base human desire for rebellion.

That’s your “reformists” in Iran. Meanwhile Iran’s external foreign policy and domestic crackdowns on opposition haven’t changed in decades.

It’s a facade, shadow on the wall. The power is solely vested in the Supreme Leader s d delegated as he sees fit, usually to his clerics who further delegate authority.

If this is too complex to you then perhaps the trouble lies in the mind.

bitter factionalist fights taking place between the hardliners and the reformists with impact on Iranian policy like JCPOA. The article says that the reformists have been recently demoted, which by definition means they were recently in a place of relatively significant power.

Before 2021, Iran’s conservative and hardline elite factions already exercised substantial influence behind the façade of a more moderate and pro-reform administration however, to the point of enjoying a de facto veto. After 2021, hardline and conservative factions have been unequivocally in charge


Come now, let’s not get dramatic. I’ve seen bitterer fights on a playground.

But yeah, those are the only 4 things the Iranian government has done with regards to foreign policy, definitely no negotiations with the United States over nuclear policy, definitely no telegraphed strikes pulling punches against Israel during the 2024 strikes to deescalate, definitely no appeals to the United Nations for application of international law and diplomacy as a resolution to this conflict. Just maximalist evil empire stuff. Got it.

Besides the mass murder squads Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Why would an end-time death cult respond to having the United States bomb their nuclear facility with diplomatic negotiations?

I mean if someone dropped a sun on my nuclear facility before the Mahdi can come I’d negotiate to stretch the game clock out too.

 

[Pressure]

king Kreisler is a Trump supporting Iran apologist

 

[Mister Terrific]

...the Supreme Leader who "follows a 9th century apocalypse narrative" is so scared of the degradation of his 21st century geopolitical allies that he's rationally cowed into negotiating a diplomatic resolution? You see how your bigotry is leading you to take ridiculous and contradictory position?

Let’s negotiate “here’s another billion dollars to Assad and Hesbollah”.


Bigotry? I love Persian culture and history. Fascinating stuff. Most of it destroyed or discarded by the Islamists when they took over.

You should read “A short stay in hell” about a Mormon guy who finds out the true religion was Zoroastrianism, and he gets sent to hell for a short stay of just a few eons.

 

[mson]

 

[FAH1223]

 

[the cac mamba]

got dogwalked by Israel, into getting humiliated into paying out Iran



weakest president of our lifetimes

 

[FAH1223]