Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

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seemorecizzy

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Imagine a guy getting paid 20 million dollars a year and it takes him damn near half a season to consistently play well :mjlol:
And these are the guys you want to pat on the back
this is why you judge a player/team after a full season. not after 10 or 20 games. randle is still a kid, and players develop differently and at different times. its a marathon
 

storyteller

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The Knicks started 2020 with a win that makes three in a row for the first time this season. New York beat up on the Portland Trail Blazers 117-93, holding a team with Damian Lillard, CJ Mccollum and Carmelo Anthony to 39% from the field. When I say that everything went right, I really mean it. The Knicks shot just under 50% from the field, they hit just under 40% of their three point attempts and they tallied a ridiculous 29:7 assist to turnover ratio. Get this, they even shot a higher percentage from the free throw line (barely). This was a win predicated on tough defense and a ton of ball movement. Even when the Blazers kept it close early, they rode some tough three point makes and an absolute shooting gem from Melo. The one Blazer who came to perform at the Garden was the one guy the Garden came out to show love for. So we Knicks fans got literally everything we could ask for. We got to watch Melo go off at MSG one more time but we still got the blowout with vets and youth alike doing big things...Let's get to the gushing:

Payton: Last night's Frank Ntilikina, "I swear he played better than those numbers say" award went to Elfrid Payton. Payton had a tough shooting night but his playmaking paced the Knicks early and he paired that passing with strong defensive play against Lillard. The entire Knicks had an "anyone but Dame" mentality on the night and Payton might have set that tone too, never letting the Blazers' star have easy looks from three. The starting PG put up 4 points, 8 assists to 0 TO's, 4 boards and 2 blocks in 25 minutes. He did this on 2/9 from the field, 0/3 from three and 0/2 from the free throw line. No he couldn't buy a bucket, but he contributed in other ways and gave the Knicks another night without a single turnover.

RJ: RJ Barrett just can't seem to string together a series of good games lately. He's had some nice games but always followed by tough ones. Against the Blazers, he was due for some struggle and struggle he did. On a night when damn near everyone else played well, the Knicks top pick rookie had a dud. RJ put up 7 points and 4 boards with 3 TO's (no assists). It was another case of the jumper not being there to open up the rest of his attack options. RJ shot 3/12 from the field, 1/4 from three and missed his only FT.

Here's the thing, against a team with Hassan Whiteside waiting in the middle and while chasing around CJ Mccollum most of the night...I can understand the struggle numbers. Barrett still flashed his prowess with a pretty and-one finish to start the game but beating Whiteside inside is all about drawing him in and kicking it to someone else. Barrett seemed to let frustration with the jumper lead to some forces at the rim against tough protection instead. There are some rookie wall signs but it's hard to say when his recent performances have been so tied to whether or not he's getting shots to fall at range.

Morris: Amid some sore achilles reports, Marcus Morris has seen his efficiency slip a bit but is still an impact player. What was nice to see last night was that while he didn't hit jumpers at the insane clip he's notched so far this season, Morris accentuated his game with some nice passing and better work on the boards. Morris put up 18 points, 3 assists and 7 boards. So while he shot 7/19 from the field and 2/7 from three, Morris was able to tally more assists and rebounds than his season average.

If you follow these recaps, I constantly harp on a player finding ways to produce even when he can't score. Marcus Morris has been a go to scorer for most of the season, but right now Randle's taken over that mantle. Morris has responded with multiple assist games in the past three games. When both the Knicks' forwards become threats to be a scorer or a playmaker; the entire offense syncs up in scary fashion.

Randle: When Julius Randle picks his spots instead of attacking indiscrimintaely, the man is a nightmare to cover. Between his jumper coming around, chemistry with Payton and more touches inside the three point line as opposed to out; we're finally seeing the potential that Randle truly has. Add to that, we're seeing more committed defense to boot. No Knicks player has benefited more from the simplified defense and increase in pick and rolls. Randle notched 22 points, 12 boards and 3 assists to 3 TO's. in 30 minutes. He did so on 8/15 from the field and 3/6 from three.

Randle was one of two players that just felt like he could get whatever he wanted. The big man would shoot when bigs dropped off of him or barrel past them when they got too close. When he was defended well, Randle moved the ball and let the offense reset instead of his typical forces. He did go a little haywire at the end of the first half with a turn over and a pair of bad shots that evaporated a 7 point lead late in the second. But that small run was the only period where we saw old bad habits creep in.

Taj: If there's one knock on Taj Gibson, it's that true centers can be problematic for him as he's a bit undersized. This held true in Gibson's match-up with Hassan Whiteside. As a result of the tough match-up as well as just brilliant play from Mitchell Robinson; Taj only got 10 minutes. He went 1/1 for 2 points and an assist.

Frank: It's funny that with just 7 FGA's in the past two games, Frank Ntilikina has still managed to play some of his most aggressive ball of the season. That's because Ntilikina has made a concerted effort to attack off the dribble and get inside. I've mentioned that Whiteside is a guy that you draw in so that you can put a pass behind him. Well the French Prince did that to perfection all night, throwing alley-oop after alley-oop to Mitchell Robinson. Frank finished with 9 points, 10 assists to 0 TO's, 3 boards on 3/5 from the field and 1/3 from three. He managed all of this in just 23 minutes of play.

Here's what's especially wild. In just 3 makes, Frank was able to show off his aggression. One of the FG's was a behind the back dribble to a pull-up three pointer that looked like running a drill. Another field goal was an emphatic dunk as Blazers defenders all stayed on their men for fear of the assist. Ntilikina just picked apart the defense in a manner that showed his upside all over. Add to that, he was still his usual brilliant self defensively. Frank blocked two jumpers and picked off a pass via a smart defensive rotation. The only player that Frank had some trouble with was Melo who drew fouls and scored in post up situations.

Bullock: The first two guard off the bench for the Knicks was Reggie Bullock, making his debut. It took all of 15 minutes for Bullock to give signs of the type of player that the Knicks are getting. He knocked down threes, played consistent defense and demanded defensive gravity thanks to his ability to score. Bullock started his Knicks career with 11 points and 2 boards on 4/9 from the field and 3/5 from three. This is a true 3 and D piece that the Knicks sorely need, hopefully he can keep it up and based on his past play; he should be able to.

Dotson: It's probably a bit weird to see limited action like Damyean Dotson did in light of Bullock's return. Dot only saw 13 scattered minutes and never really got himself into the flow of the game. That's not to say he played poorly, Dot moved the ball well but he just didn't get opportunities to score. He settled for 2 assists without a turnover of a field goal attempt. Not bad, but obviously there isn't much to talk about on a quiet night like this.

Knox: I suppose I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but while the production is muted I've been happy with a lot of the things Kevin Knox has done on the floor in recent games. Knox has played with good energy on both ends of the floor and he hasn't forced much of anything. He just can't seem to get the jumper fully unlocked lately and that has muted his scoring numbers. Knox put up 5 points, 7 boards and 1 assist in 17 minutes. He shot just 2/6 overall and 1/4 from three on the night.

The kid has flashed promising rebounding ability in the past. We know he can get hot from three too. Add slow but sure improvements in his defensive play and you're looking at a player that can stay on the floor even when he struggles shooting. He also didn't always settle for three, turning down a decent look to drive and move the ball a couple of times. I really think he's scratching at the surface. If he keeps up this style of play, when the jumper starts to fall he'll string together some impressive games.

Portis: Bobby Portis knocked down multiple 4th quarter threes in cold blooded fashion that locked up the blow out. He played his typical solid effort prior to that but the "sweep the leg" moments in the fourth helped him compile a really nice box score overall. In just 21 minutes, Portis dropped 17 points, 1 assist to 1 TO and 6 boards. He shot 6/11 from the field and 3/4 from three. He's quietly up to 37% from three and has settled into a role where he can break things open if he's got the hot hand but has proven a willing passer when that's not the case. I've gained more and more appreciation for his effort as the season's gone on.

Mitch: From the moment Mitchell Robinson stepped onto the court, it felt like he was going to do whatever the hell he felt like. It started with some offensive boards and putbacks as well as some dunks...it continued with more offensive rebounds and some dunks. Mitch received the lion's share of the love from the Knicks' PG's combining for 18 assists and 0 TO's. When players couldn't feed the young Center, he'd clean up anything they missed. So over 27 minutes, Robinson went 11/11 from the field (tying a record for perfection) and notched 22 points, 8 boards, a block and a steal.

I can't stress just how dominant this felt. During the third quarter, the Knicks felt like they were on the verge of breaking the game open. Melo was going off to keep things close. Mitch came onto the court and quickly helped double team Melo in the post. By the fourth quarter, Melo wasn't scoring anymore and neither were the rest of the Blazers. Mitch only had to come off of the floor for some damned mercy (ironically it didn't work because Portis decided to go full Lil Ze in the hotel on 'em). Robinson was a game breaker. If the ball went up, he'd get a hand on it.

Miller: One of my favorite moments of the whole night came at the post game press conference. Someone tried to bait Mike Miller into throwing David Fizdale under the bus by citing Julius Randle's uptick in production since Miller has taken over. Coach quickly gave all credit to the player and moved on to gushing about just how well his point guards had played. If anything it's this humble approach that has pervaded the Knicks' recent play. The defense has been simplified for the players and the offense encourages ball movement that we simply hadn't been seeing before. There was one play where Frank went for a drive and kick, the ball flew around the perimeter for four passes and every guy could have taken the shot but chose to wait for a better one. This has been the nature of quite a few recent wins, with assist numbers to support the eye test, a lot of egos have been checked at the door.

Another notable moment from last night came as the Knicks held a fairly commanding lead but let up a bit defensively. I don't if think Portland scored on the play if memory serves, but the fact that they got an easy look and that the Knicks had a couple of rushed shots meant that Miller was calling a timeout. The Knicks hadn't lost momentum, they'd been building up a lead in actuality...but that bit of slip up in play was enough for Miller to settle everyone down to refocus. I mark out hard for those kinds of heady moves. We want a 48 minutes a night basketball team, this is how you instill that.

Other bits: I'm not gonna miss a chance to show some love for Carmelo Anthony. I loved his post game press conference too. He was really out there trying to drag the Blazers into a competitive game while Lillard and CJ put up a combined 11/36 from the field. Those dudes put up 28 points on 36 attempts and yet there was Melo drawing a ton of fouls and forcing out the Knicks best defender in the first half (Frank) for a while. I know things got rocky in NYC, but Knicks fans should all be able to appreciate a star player that wanted to be here so bad he fought to stay.

One last thing, it's undeniable that the Knicks have had a soft stretch of schedule. It's also undeniable that they weren't even beating the bad teams for most of this season. They needed a run like this to get some confidence back and some trust in each other built up. Miller had time to really lock in some offensive sets and defensive philosophy too. After Phoenix, there's a truly tough run of opponents peaking through with both buzzsaws in LA starting off the All-NBA mode stretch of basketball. It will be interesting to see if the Knicks can keep composure and at least make these games competitive. It's one thing to beat the bad teams, but being able to compete on every single night is you make a step toward actually being playoff viable. I'm not sure this roster is there yet but I at least trust that it has begun to maximize its collective talent.
 
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storyteller

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Last 4 games:

35/5
33/8
30/7
22/13

if anyone that doesn't have the name Julius Randle was doing this, you guys would be saying he's a bonafide star

@Gil Scott-Heroin lost

@JMurder lost

@ikbm lost

Getting him in more pick and roll situations has made a world of a difference. You should be mad at Fizdale.
 

storyteller

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Yo, is DSJ hurt or something?

Strained oblique was the last thing I saw reported. That's a rough one to get past but honestly, having to split three PG's minutes up wasn't all that helpful anyway. He's played his way out of the rotation and I'm hoping we can find a team that values his upside and gives him a better shot to catch a rhythm. DSJ and Zo are in tough spots but I still like both guys and want to see them in a position to succeed; with us or with someone else. While we see if Miller can keep bumping the vets' values, I'd take calls on those two but no give aways.
 

RickyGQ

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whether we drafted someone directly or not shouldnt matter imo. we didnt bring em here to isolate them. all these guys are young and should be treated on the same level as far as patience and development goes. can"t pick favourites if its about "the team"

didnt kat just sign a 5 year extension? lol wheres all this discussion coming from? im also not even sure picking him up is even worth it.

That sounds good and should be the case but it’s not. This is sports fandom where talking about. Why should we be patient with Randle when we’ve only known him for 2 months, he’s shown us everything bad and very little good; over the guys we’ve invested in for 2-3 seasons already? shyt, there’s lakers fans in this thread bigging him up solely because he’s a guy they invested in emotionally through the draft. Doubt they’d do the same for a guy like KCP.

Kat was just a hypothetical i was throwing out there since the summer. I doubt it’s feasible but i mean a player like him, who’s in a situation where he wants out and we’d be in position to make a godfather offer for if a team decides to “do right by him”.
 

DPresidential

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Sports fandom is something I don't take lightly in sports debates. It's legitimate.

That being said, Julius Randle isn't a rental; he has a 3 year commitment. He has certain established skills, is young and exhibits that "if the coaching clicks with him, he'll shine" kind of vibe.

He's a Knick.

He wanted to come here.

He has issues, there are many annoying elements to his game that agitate the shyt out of us; no argument here.

But he's a Knicks, brehs. Barring any trades; he's a 3 year Knick(team option).

I don't think it's fair to condemn the Knicks fans who genuinely don't like his game or effect on the X's and O's...

But at the same time, I don't understand how when certain things happen showing a potential positive change to his game - people just seem to WANT to dismiss it.

It's like with Frank or with Knox or with DSJ or with Vonleh or Burke - if they are going through a good stretch, it takes a lot less energy to be happy for the kid and for having positive impact on the game than to hunker down on a "you dumb fans, just wait until he regresses again!"

If he regresses more than he progresses, it doesn't make you look bad to have been positive up until that point.

And no, I'm not arguing that we should be delusional like when he has a bad game and we go, "great game!"

No. I mean, we should all just put the pitchforks away just for a little while.













fukk...Randle is becoming my new Timmy Hardaway:martin::mjpls:@Miles Davis
 
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storyteller

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Sports fandom something I don't take lightly in sports debates. It's legitimate.

That being said, Julius Randle isn't a rental; he has a 3 year commitment. He has certain established skills, is young and exhibits that "if the coaching clicks with him, hell shine" kind of vibe.

He's a Knick.

He wanted to come here.

He has issues, there are many annoying elements to his game that agitate the shyt out of us; no argument here.

But he's a Knicks, brehs. Barring any trades; he's a 3 year Knick(team option).

I don't think it's fair to condemn the Knicks fans who genuinely don't like his game or effect on the X's and O's...

But at the same time, I don't understand how when certain things happens showing a potential positive change to his game - people can just se to WANT to dismiss it.

It's like with Frank or with Knox or with DSJ or with Vonleh or Burke - if they are going through a good stretch, it takes a lot less energy to be happy for the kid and for having positive impact on the game.

If he regresses more than he progresses, it doesn't make you look bad to have been positive up until that point.

And no, I'm not arguing that we should be delusional like when he has a bad game and we go, "great game!"

No. I mean, we should all just put the pitchforks away just for a little while.













fukk...Randle is becoming my new Timmy Hardaway:martin::mjpls:@Miles Davis

This post is damn near perfection. And just to add a thought, our best case scenario is Randle becoming a stud and keeping this up. He's playing at an allstar level in this recent stretch (at least Eastern Conference allstar). The other thing is what I've gleaned from trying to close watch all the games this season is that he's making an honest effort to adjust and improve in the right ways. If you play to his strengths, he can really reward you. If he maintains his effort levels, I'll keep riding for him.
 

ISO

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this is why you judge a player/team after a full season. not after 10 or 20 games. randle is still a kid, and players develop differently and at different times. its a marathon
Mf ain’t no kid. 25 is the first season of most players primes.

And also y’all fukking geeked off a good stretch of games. Get fooled by the Randle Handle, brehs. :laff:
 
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