Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[Ironman]

we need shooters

We have 2 bonafide in Dot and Ellington that don't play together as well as Knox. With some player constant movement they'd be kiiling a line-up

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I tried to tell brehs not to give up on Frank Nitty. I remember many were willing to give him up at that draft last year for a 2nd round pick

You dont part with a guy that makes a difference on defense like Frank does. Thats why the Celtics never let Marcus Smart go. And as great of a defender as Smart is he doesnt have Franks reflexes, hand speed, and hand eye coordination. Not to mention his excellent lateral movement

Excuse me?

Smart has some of the best reflexes/hands and hand-eye coordination that a player can possibly have, certainly to a greater degree than Frank. In this context, he relies on those abilities more than Frank does, given that he's shorter and not as long; it's largely why he can guard 1-5, protect the paint/rim, and provide the most defensive impact of any guard in the league.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Same nikkas who would bury Dennis Rodman before his true defensive skill blossomed.

False equivalence.

Shooting/scoring is needed when you're a PG/ball-handler, especially in this era, more than someone like Rodman who played a position and had a role where shooting wasn't as important. Just because Frank is a good defender doesn't mean that folks' gripes with his lack of offense should be washed away; he can't just keep living on his defensive value/reputation forever as a starting PG.

 

[Columbo]

Excuse me?

Smart has some of the best reflexes/hands and hand-eye coordination that a player can possibly have, certainly to a greater degree than Frank. In this context, he relies on those abilities more than Frank does, given that he's shorter and not as long; it's largely why he can guard 1-5, protect the paint/rim, and provide the most defensive impact of any guard in the league.

You know i remember when Mayweather and Pacquiao were fighting they showed on Espn about Mayweather and how fast his punches were, and how it was almost impossible for his opponents to react. They showed some really interesting stats

Maybe you could pull some stats from your bag of analytics that will prove Smart has the superior hand speed, reflexes and hand-eye coordination. I always thought from watching Frank that he was maxed out in these areas

Maybe im selling Smart a little short, id be willing to say it may be even but your going to need some other way to prove to me that Smart has those attributes to a greater extent then Frank does

 

[Miles Davis]

A Frank steal or a Mitch block setting up a transition for DSJ, Barrett and Knox 30 minutes a night...that's the dream

Is it too much to ask for? I just wanna see these kids ball out

 

[Derek Lee]

fukk Frank

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You know i remember when Mayweather and Pacquiao were fighting they showed on Espn about Mayweather and how fast his punches were, and how it was almost impossible for his opponents to react. They showed some really interesting stats

Maybe you could pull some stats from your bag of analytics that will prove Smart has the superior hand speed, reflexes and hand-eye coordination. I always thought from watching Frank that he was maxed out in these areas

Maybe im selling Smart a little short, id be willing to say it may be even but your going to need some other way to prove to me that Smart has those attributes to a greater extent then Frank does

Tape and common sense prove that Frank isn't superior in those areas.



A lot of the time Frank doesn't even need to use any hand speed or hand-eye coordination to defend, because of the size/length advantage he has over his matchups; he just swarms them until they're forced to give the ball up or make a mistake. Smart has to use his reflexes/hands and hand-eye coordination more because he doesn't have that same size/length advantage over his matchups.

 

[Wargames]

This is a pretty good video. We just don’t got the best lineup and that can be attributed to a roster of guys who are mostly not physically in their primes.

We are running plays.

I think the real failure isn’t even the coach or Mills it was setting up expectations we wouldn’t be trash. We kind of did it to ourselves as fans.

 

[Peter Popoff]

This is a pretty good video. We just don’t got the best lineup and that can be attributed to a roster of guys who are mostly not physically in their primes.

We are running plays.

I think the real failure isn’t even the coach or Mills it was setting up expectations we wouldn’t be trash. We kind of did it to ourselves as fans.

To be honest, they weren't using these plays off the pick and roll in the previous games. They're offense was atrocious and often led to Randle driving to the lane on 3 defenders for the turnover instead of setting the screen for other teammates or hitting the jumpshot with rebounders under the rim.

They often took shots while no other knick was near the rim. If you noticed, Mitch played cleanup on uncontested shots and the rebounding stepped up. The Knicks would also have a better record if they hit more of those js off the pnr. Also DSJ had more assist so there was more ball movement. It's those little differences.

Didn't Mike Miller become assistant coach on Thursdays game?

 

[DPresidential]

False equivalence.

Shooting/scoring is needed when you're a PG/ball-handler, especially in this era, more than someone like Rodman who played a position and had a role where shooting wasn't as important. Just because Frank is a good defender doesn't mean that folks' gripes with his lack of offense should be washed away; he can't just keep living on his defensive value/reputation forever as a starting PG.

Their complaints shouldn't be ignored.

But, to trivialize and disrespect his skillset is foolish. That's what I'm saying.

 

[Columbo]

Tape and common sense prove that Frank isn't superior in those areas.



A lot of the time Frank doesn't even need to use any hand speed or hand-eye coordination to defend, because of the size/length advantage he has over his matchups; he just swarms them until they're forced to give the ball up or make a mistake. Smart has to use his reflexes/hands and hand-eye coordination more because he doesn't have that same size/length advantage over his matchups.

The way i see it, Frank does use his hand speed and his reflexes along with his length, and has elite hand eye coordination evidence being his accuracy when he looks to swipe the ball away

I give Smart lots of respect, hes a huge factor in the Celtics success. I watched the highlights, i see a good amount of Celtics games where i live at. I would retract what i said before and say they are on par with eachother in terms of the attributes mentioned.

But i guess common sense proves that im wrong, and that Smart is quicker, and that you are correct once again keeping your undefeated record on the coli intact

 

[Columbo]

fukk Frank

Yeah Frank is trash. We could still trade him for a 2nd round pick

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The way i see it, Frank does use his hand speed and his reflexes along with his length, and has elite hand eye coordination evidence being his accuracy when he looks to swipe the ball away

I give Smart lots of respect, hes a huge factor in the Celtics success. I watched the highlights, i see a good amount of Celtics games where i live at. I would retract what i said before and say they are on par with eachother in terms of the attributes mentioned.

But i guess common sense proves that im wrong, and that Smart is quicker, and that you are correct once again keeping your undefeated record on the coli intact

If you were to measure their hand-speed, reaction times, and hand-eye coordination with testing off the court, there probably wouldn't be much between them, as would be the case for the majority of guards in the league.

But in the context of the game and what they've both shown, Smart is superior. With that said, it's not an entirely fair comparison given that, once again, Frank has greater size/length where he hasn't had to develop and fine-tune those skills to the same degree as Smart; and Smart has an autonomous defensive role, where he has more opportunities to display more of those traits, whereas Frank is primarily fixed as a M2M defender and has fewer opportunities to do the same.

But, yes, 97979007646598797554-0 record.

 

[Kitsch]

 

[storyteller]

The way i see it, Frank does use his hand speed and his reflexes along with his length, and has elite hand eye coordination evidence being his accuracy when he looks to swipe the ball away

I give Smart lots of respect, hes a huge factor in the Celtics success. I watched the highlights, i see a good amount of Celtics games where i live at. I would retract what i said before and say they are on par with eachother in terms of the attributes mentioned.

But i guess common sense proves that im wrong, and that Smart is quicker, and that you are correct once again keeping your undefeated record on the coli intact

At the end of the day, they both have a similar role defensively. That's to be disruptive. They both harass ball handlers, fill in passing lanes and try to throw offensive rhythm out of wack. Presently, they're both doing that job at an elite level. It's not insult to think Smart's got the better hands on defense, he's among the best period. But that shouldn't be mistaken for Frank not having really good hands. His length absolutely helps (and also should give Frank higher upside btw) but good hands is a pre-requisite to being as disruptive as Frank has been on pick and roll ball handlers even back to his rookie season.

Also, if I'm going P4P best hands in the league, I'd prolly take Jrue Holiday over anyone.