seemorecizzy
Superstar
you're lucky i dont have any real dislike for you bruh
im out here saving you from yourself
hopefully you get it now, but knowing you.. i doubt it
Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread
- Thread starter DPresidential
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you're lucky i dont have any real dislike for you bruh
im out here saving you from yourself
hopefully you get it now, but knowing you.. i doubt it
storyteller
Veteran
@JMurder
This is the good and the bad from Frank's performance. Might be the most aggressive we've seen him. Two three point attempts off the dribble, a gang of midrange makes, a couple of clever drive and finishes, plus some nice passes.
Frank May be the best part of our young core brehs..........low key
storyteller
Veteran
The New York Knicks to the Jazz, 104-128 in another blowout. Without their best two players, the Knicks never barely got to tipoff before the lead was ballooning. If there was ever a game where I believe certain players were being showcased, it was this one. The problem is that guys have to play well to make the most of a showcase, so Bobby Portis' team leading 29 minutes might have been worse than if he got his typical 20 minutes. Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock and Wayne Ellington all got ample time without being able to go above and beyond their usual contributions (unless you count Ellington in garbage time). But the beauty of a blowout during veteran's showcase month (aka January leading into the trade deadline) is that by the fourth quarter Mike Miller was able to play mostly youth. Some young guys stepped up in this game and fought regardless of the score and a G-league call-up flashed a few positives we caught glimpses of during summer league. Let's find out more...
Payton: Let's not mince words here, Elfrid Payton's stats don't really shine the light on what a tough night this was for him. I say that because he got dogged by everyone he guarded from Donovan Mitchell to Emmanuel Mudiay, the PG that he ostensibly replaced. Payton did come in aggressive and provided some extra scoring, but it came at the expense of his playmaking disappearing entirely. So here was Elfrid Payton using his limited scoring ability to the max while sacrificing his defense and passing for 24 minutes in which the Knicks were outscored by 33 points. Payton put up 13 points, 0 assists to 1 TO and 2 boards on 6/13 from the field. His savvy for finishing is the only positive that we got in this one.
Barrett: Poor RJ Barrett came into this one as the obvious best scorer left from the Knicks' typical starting unit but was relegated to an afterthought as Elfrid Payton and Bobby Portis let everything fly. RJ's touches came sporadically and so he never caught much rhythm. What's worse, his drive heavy style was met by Rudy Gobert consistently which meant even on his opportunities to attack the results were a struggle. It would have been nice to have him work through that similar to how he handled the Lakers game, being the only guy to show up in the second half. But that never happened and his role with the starters meant that while the other young guys got to take chances at stepping up, he got to watch Bobby Portis shoot.
Barrett finished with 10 points, 0 assists to 3 TO's and 2 boards on 3/10 from the field in 27 minutes. He did get to the line 4 times and made every free throw, a fleeting positive in an otherwise tough night. I might add that he's had more defensive lapses lately than he'd previously been having. I think this could be fatigue or frustration though, as it's not a consistent pattern and has creeped up moreso when he struggles offensively.
Bullock: The best way to describe Reggie Bullock thus far is that he is who he is. The Knicks haven't seen any big explosions but they also haven't seen his game fall off a cliff. He's not a stopper, but a solid defender; not a sharpshooter but can make some jumpers. Over 24 minutes of play, Bullock finished with 9 points, 3 boards and 1 assist on 4/9 shooting and 1/2 from three. Not bad...not great...just steady.
Portis: There are a ton of these recaps where I talk about the Bobby Portis sweetspot of 15-20 minutes a night. That's an amount of time where he can't kill you if he's bad but gets the opportunity to have one of those hot quarters where he'll fill it up. Last night, Bobby got 29 minutes and never came close to getting hot from the field. He did manage to leave Bogdanovic wide open from three on multiple occasions and pick up his second flagrant foul in two nights though. Frustratingly, you could tell this dude wanted to step up for the Knicks but it led to some forces, some missed open ones and some misplaced effort all over.
Portis finished 5/17 from the field, 2/4 from three and with some decent complimentary stats next to awful scoring. His put up 13 points, 13 boards and 6 assists over his time out there. The effort was never the problem, it was the decision making at times. This is even true of his disastrous defense, dude really wanted to help but didn't make the right choices when pressing. The three's he gave up were because he drifted too far to help on Gobert and the flagrant was a block attempt. Without Morris or Randle, there was no one to save him from himself.
Taj: I've always appreciated Taj Gibson for his veteran presence and effort. But it's time to start talking about his struggles. He barely breaks 10 minutes a night, his jumper is no longer falling, big centers are too much for him defensively and he's averaging over a TO per game in less than 14 minutes over the last 10. Gibson finished with 4 points, 1 assist and 0 boards in 12 minutes from the center position. He had no chance against Gobert.
Frank: Well the hard part is over and now I get to gush about a rare quality performance. Frank Ntilikina showed up to play last night, evidenced by immediately finishing an and-one drive to start his game. Frank was aggressive off the bounce and looked for his pull-up jumper from midrange enough to open up space on drives as the game wore on. He had some shining moments on defense although Clarkson and Mudiay hit some tough jumpers over him at times (still has to get stronger). While most guys struggled shooting, the French Prince passed the ball really well but wasn't always rewarded. He also forgot he was playing with Portis and not Mitch at one point, throwing a lob that wound up being free throws instead of a dunk which made me laugh.
Ntilikina only got 19 minutes but led the Knicks in scoring with 16 points, 3 assists to 0 TO's and 4 rebounds on 6/10 shooting and 1/3 from three. He got to the line 3 times and cashed all of his free throws, both getting to line and making it have been aspects Frank is showing an uptick on this season. The team was a +10 when he played and he didn't even get garbage time to cheat his numbers up, that went to Kadeem Allen. Point blank, he was the best New York Knick last night and it's a damned shame he didn't get more time to show it off. Everything we wanted out of the kid was on display last night.
Dot: The other true brightspot of the night, as in the only other guy that had positive impacts outside of garbage time, was Damyean Dotson. Over 22 minutes, Dot put up 11 points and 4 boards on 5/9 shooting and 1/2 from three. Dotson brought solid defense, good ball movement and plenty of hustle to the floor during his minutes. This is a guy who has gotten pushed aside some while Bullock and Ellington reintegrate into the line-up. His jumper hasn't been as good as the first two seasons, but he's doing more off the dribble than ever before. It feels like any time Frank and Dot are paired, other guys look better too. Wayne Ellington has been awful as a shooter this year but with Frank and Dot around him, the vet found his three ball for a change.
Long story short, clear the SG logjam a bit and make some space for Dot. He's earned his minutes moreso than the vets who are eating his minutes.
Ellington: Sometimes a statline doesn't tell the whole story, I constantly try to get that across in these recaps. Case in point, a lot of Wayne Ellington's production came when the game was out of hand and during a short burst rather than across his whole 22 minute stint. There are two ways to interpret this though. It could be that he just feasted on garbage time and as the only vet in an otherwise young line-up, a chance to be more of the focal point. The other way to look at it is that a rusty player returned from injury and shook off his cobwebs late...fingers crossed this is the case.
Ellington put up 11 points, 2 assists to one (awful) TO and 3 boards on 4/6 from the field and 3/5 from three. Nothing would be more helpful to this team than for Ellington to rediscover his three ball. In close games, teams have switched to a zone and the Knicks haven't had the shooting to always respond. The most potent spacing on the Knicks would rely on Ellington and Bullock as wings and hitting their expected numbers rather than what Ellington has posted so far. So it's been a bit frustrating to watch Wayne this season but finding his jumper could really open up some options for the offense.
Knox: Well it's gonna be hard to defend the kid off of this one. Kevin Knox went 2/10 from the field and 0/5 from three which is horrifying when you consider that his only truly valuable tool thus far has been shooting. Knox has seemed to be locked up in his own head and unable to breakout. Defensively, he had a few brightspots but far more lapses and mistakes. His flashes of awareness and passing on offense are gone as he presses to drive or get his shot going. So the young lottery pick put up 6 points and 6 boards in 29 minutes of play, not nearly the production the Knicks needed with their two top forwards absent.
Now let me try to go glass is half full for a minute. Knox tried to drive more to get his game going. He turned the ball over at one point, came back down and made another slashing move that ended in a finish. There wsa determination hidden behind that second drive. His 6 boards were the second most on the team and every rebound is a struggle against this tough Utah team with Gobert lurking in the lanes. The drives and ability to grab those boards against a long team are signs of Knox's under-the-radar athleticism that pairs well with his size. Look, nothing's really gone right for the kid and he got a chance to play through it but struggled again. I wouldn't be mad at a G-League stint but I want to say without a doubt it's not the time to give up on this young man.
Mitch: Speaking of struggles, the West Coast has not been kind to Mitchell Robinson. He had one of his most disappointing defensive quarters in the first and got benched pretty hard in the second quarter then deep into the third. The accountability here may have been a bit much though while Portis was awful defensively and everyone else was overwhelmed by Gobert. More importantly, Mitch closed out this road trip on a positive spurt of play. He finished some looks inside and had his spring back by the end of things, another glass is half full development. Mitch finished with 6 points, 4 boards and 1 assist in 22 minutes...nothing to get hype about but by the end of the game he made sure to remind us why he's such an exciting prospect.
Allen: Kadeem Allen got five minutes and not much of that with the ball but he still did some nice things. He found Mitch and made a nice baby jumper. Allen went 1/2 for 2 points and 2 assists. A nice five minute reminder that he's not bad to have at the end of your bench.
Iggy: Ignas Brazdeikis had almost the same stats as Allen. He played five minutes and went for 3 points, 2 assists on 1/2 shooting and a free throw made. But in that brief stint, he looked a lot like the guy we saw in Summer League when Knicks fans started to hype this second round pick. Iggy is shockingly patient with the ball in hand and has great awareness for a rookie forward. You catch him using his size to post up and survey the floor with athleticism and strength to either finish or make a smart pass. If I sound way too hype about his five minutes of play, it's because we've gotten this same player in the summer league and the G-league so far. This was just the first time it's translated to any real production in an NBA game. On a night where a lot went wrong, we could use that sort of pick me up.
Miller: The Knicks are relying pretty heavily on vets right now and it's hard to say if that's coach or front office. We're at the stage of the year when trades start to take shape and trade rumors have popped up for a number of Knicks players. Was the 29 minute Portis run an attempt to sell him amid rumors of interest from other teams? Maybe...maybe not. What about Ellington getting burn that Dot could use? Same answer. Even with Knox for 29, I'm not sure if this is showcase, trying to help the kid bust out of a slump or just a bad decision when another young prospect like Iggy could use a look. What's clear is that the offensive system is better. The defense last night was more an issue of being stuck relying on Portis and Knox too much than anything else in my opinion. That means the answer to those showcase questions become more important. Time will tell, but the reliance on vets while the team dwells in the cellar will wear thin with the fanbase. So something will have to give or we'll be back to boo's at the Garden in no time...maybe the "fire" chants will be directed at Mills and Perry this time though.
Payton: Let's not mince words here, Elfrid Payton's stats don't really shine the light on what a tough night this was for him. I say that because he got dogged by everyone he guarded from Donovan Mitchell to Emmanuel Mudiay, the PG that he ostensibly replaced. Payton did come in aggressive and provided some extra scoring, but it came at the expense of his playmaking disappearing entirely. So here was Elfrid Payton using his limited scoring ability to the max while sacrificing his defense and passing for 24 minutes in which the Knicks were outscored by 33 points. Payton put up 13 points, 0 assists to 1 TO and 2 boards on 6/13 from the field. His savvy for finishing is the only positive that we got in this one.
Barrett: Poor RJ Barrett came into this one as the obvious best scorer left from the Knicks' typical starting unit but was relegated to an afterthought as Elfrid Payton and Bobby Portis let everything fly. RJ's touches came sporadically and so he never caught much rhythm. What's worse, his drive heavy style was met by Rudy Gobert consistently which meant even on his opportunities to attack the results were a struggle. It would have been nice to have him work through that similar to how he handled the Lakers game, being the only guy to show up in the second half. But that never happened and his role with the starters meant that while the other young guys got to take chances at stepping up, he got to watch Bobby Portis shoot.
Barrett finished with 10 points, 0 assists to 3 TO's and 2 boards on 3/10 from the field in 27 minutes. He did get to the line 4 times and made every free throw, a fleeting positive in an otherwise tough night. I might add that he's had more defensive lapses lately than he'd previously been having. I think this could be fatigue or frustration though, as it's not a consistent pattern and has creeped up moreso when he struggles offensively.
Bullock: The best way to describe Reggie Bullock thus far is that he is who he is. The Knicks haven't seen any big explosions but they also haven't seen his game fall off a cliff. He's not a stopper, but a solid defender; not a sharpshooter but can make some jumpers. Over 24 minutes of play, Bullock finished with 9 points, 3 boards and 1 assist on 4/9 shooting and 1/2 from three. Not bad...not great...just steady.
Portis: There are a ton of these recaps where I talk about the Bobby Portis sweetspot of 15-20 minutes a night. That's an amount of time where he can't kill you if he's bad but gets the opportunity to have one of those hot quarters where he'll fill it up. Last night, Bobby got 29 minutes and never came close to getting hot from the field. He did manage to leave Bogdanovic wide open from three on multiple occasions and pick up his second flagrant foul in two nights though. Frustratingly, you could tell this dude wanted to step up for the Knicks but it led to some forces, some missed open ones and some misplaced effort all over.
Portis finished 5/17 from the field, 2/4 from three and with some decent complimentary stats next to awful scoring. His put up 13 points, 13 boards and 6 assists over his time out there. The effort was never the problem, it was the decision making at times. This is even true of his disastrous defense, dude really wanted to help but didn't make the right choices when pressing. The three's he gave up were because he drifted too far to help on Gobert and the flagrant was a block attempt. Without Morris or Randle, there was no one to save him from himself.
Taj: I've always appreciated Taj Gibson for his veteran presence and effort. But it's time to start talking about his struggles. He barely breaks 10 minutes a night, his jumper is no longer falling, big centers are too much for him defensively and he's averaging over a TO per game in less than 14 minutes over the last 10. Gibson finished with 4 points, 1 assist and 0 boards in 12 minutes from the center position. He had no chance against Gobert.
Frank: Well the hard part is over and now I get to gush about a rare quality performance. Frank Ntilikina showed up to play last night, evidenced by immediately finishing an and-one drive to start his game. Frank was aggressive off the bounce and looked for his pull-up jumper from midrange enough to open up space on drives as the game wore on. He had some shining moments on defense although Clarkson and Mudiay hit some tough jumpers over him at times (still has to get stronger). While most guys struggled shooting, the French Prince passed the ball really well but wasn't always rewarded. He also forgot he was playing with Portis and not Mitch at one point, throwing a lob that wound up being free throws instead of a dunk which made me laugh.
Ntilikina only got 19 minutes but led the Knicks in scoring with 16 points, 3 assists to 0 TO's and 4 rebounds on 6/10 shooting and 1/3 from three. He got to the line 3 times and cashed all of his free throws, both getting to line and making it have been aspects Frank is showing an uptick on this season. The team was a +10 when he played and he didn't even get garbage time to cheat his numbers up, that went to Kadeem Allen. Point blank, he was the best New York Knick last night and it's a damned shame he didn't get more time to show it off. Everything we wanted out of the kid was on display last night.
Dot: The other true brightspot of the night, as in the only other guy that had positive impacts outside of garbage time, was Damyean Dotson. Over 22 minutes, Dot put up 11 points and 4 boards on 5/9 shooting and 1/2 from three. Dotson brought solid defense, good ball movement and plenty of hustle to the floor during his minutes. This is a guy who has gotten pushed aside some while Bullock and Ellington reintegrate into the line-up. His jumper hasn't been as good as the first two seasons, but he's doing more off the dribble than ever before. It feels like any time Frank and Dot are paired, other guys look better too. Wayne Ellington has been awful as a shooter this year but with Frank and Dot around him, the vet found his three ball for a change.
Long story short, clear the SG logjam a bit and make some space for Dot. He's earned his minutes moreso than the vets who are eating his minutes.
Ellington: Sometimes a statline doesn't tell the whole story, I constantly try to get that across in these recaps. Case in point, a lot of Wayne Ellington's production came when the game was out of hand and during a short burst rather than across his whole 22 minute stint. There are two ways to interpret this though. It could be that he just feasted on garbage time and as the only vet in an otherwise young line-up, a chance to be more of the focal point. The other way to look at it is that a rusty player returned from injury and shook off his cobwebs late...fingers crossed this is the case.
Ellington put up 11 points, 2 assists to one (awful) TO and 3 boards on 4/6 from the field and 3/5 from three. Nothing would be more helpful to this team than for Ellington to rediscover his three ball. In close games, teams have switched to a zone and the Knicks haven't had the shooting to always respond. The most potent spacing on the Knicks would rely on Ellington and Bullock as wings and hitting their expected numbers rather than what Ellington has posted so far. So it's been a bit frustrating to watch Wayne this season but finding his jumper could really open up some options for the offense.
Knox: Well it's gonna be hard to defend the kid off of this one. Kevin Knox went 2/10 from the field and 0/5 from three which is horrifying when you consider that his only truly valuable tool thus far has been shooting. Knox has seemed to be locked up in his own head and unable to breakout. Defensively, he had a few brightspots but far more lapses and mistakes. His flashes of awareness and passing on offense are gone as he presses to drive or get his shot going. So the young lottery pick put up 6 points and 6 boards in 29 minutes of play, not nearly the production the Knicks needed with their two top forwards absent.
Now let me try to go glass is half full for a minute. Knox tried to drive more to get his game going. He turned the ball over at one point, came back down and made another slashing move that ended in a finish. There wsa determination hidden behind that second drive. His 6 boards were the second most on the team and every rebound is a struggle against this tough Utah team with Gobert lurking in the lanes. The drives and ability to grab those boards against a long team are signs of Knox's under-the-radar athleticism that pairs well with his size. Look, nothing's really gone right for the kid and he got a chance to play through it but struggled again. I wouldn't be mad at a G-League stint but I want to say without a doubt it's not the time to give up on this young man.
Mitch: Speaking of struggles, the West Coast has not been kind to Mitchell Robinson. He had one of his most disappointing defensive quarters in the first and got benched pretty hard in the second quarter then deep into the third. The accountability here may have been a bit much though while Portis was awful defensively and everyone else was overwhelmed by Gobert. More importantly, Mitch closed out this road trip on a positive spurt of play. He finished some looks inside and had his spring back by the end of things, another glass is half full development. Mitch finished with 6 points, 4 boards and 1 assist in 22 minutes...nothing to get hype about but by the end of the game he made sure to remind us why he's such an exciting prospect.
Allen: Kadeem Allen got five minutes and not much of that with the ball but he still did some nice things. He found Mitch and made a nice baby jumper. Allen went 1/2 for 2 points and 2 assists. A nice five minute reminder that he's not bad to have at the end of your bench.
Iggy: Ignas Brazdeikis had almost the same stats as Allen. He played five minutes and went for 3 points, 2 assists on 1/2 shooting and a free throw made. But in that brief stint, he looked a lot like the guy we saw in Summer League when Knicks fans started to hype this second round pick. Iggy is shockingly patient with the ball in hand and has great awareness for a rookie forward. You catch him using his size to post up and survey the floor with athleticism and strength to either finish or make a smart pass. If I sound way too hype about his five minutes of play, it's because we've gotten this same player in the summer league and the G-league so far. This was just the first time it's translated to any real production in an NBA game. On a night where a lot went wrong, we could use that sort of pick me up.
Miller: The Knicks are relying pretty heavily on vets right now and it's hard to say if that's coach or front office. We're at the stage of the year when trades start to take shape and trade rumors have popped up for a number of Knicks players. Was the 29 minute Portis run an attempt to sell him amid rumors of interest from other teams? Maybe...maybe not. What about Ellington getting burn that Dot could use? Same answer. Even with Knox for 29, I'm not sure if this is showcase, trying to help the kid bust out of a slump or just a bad decision when another young prospect like Iggy could use a look. What's clear is that the offensive system is better. The defense last night was more an issue of being stuck relying on Portis and Knox too much than anything else in my opinion. That means the answer to those showcase questions become more important. Time will tell, but the reliance on vets while the team dwells in the cellar will wear thin with the fanbase. So something will have to give or we'll be back to boo's at the Garden in no time...maybe the "fire" chants will be directed at Mills and Perry this time though.
He needs to workout with Livington in the offseason.When he gets a post up game
Frank is looking like a good backup.
storyteller
Veteran
I'd love for Billups to take him under his wing. Billups was such a crafty player to get around some of his athletic limitations and Frank has the savvy to absorb it. Chauncey had a post-up game too. Livingston would be a good choice as well though. Smart guys who produced around their athleticism rather than built on it.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
This game is embarrassing. Everything is.
Peter Popoff
PROTECT YA NECK!! 🖕🏽🇺🇲
I feel bad for Knox
Statistically he wasn't great last year either but from the eye test he looked so much better
Yamming it on Ben Simmons and taking jab step 3s
The transition game
WTF happened?
All of the Knicks young foundation has shown flashes e.g. RJ, Mitch, Frank as a defender, etc.
Knox showed mini flashes his rookie season and then poof
The regression is due to lack of confidence IMO
You can tell Knox lacks confidence
The only player/person on the team who instills Knox with confidence is RJ
I really want Frank, RJ, Knox to play together with cohesion but I'm losing patience. If you're gonna build them, hire vets with championship or playoff experience to train them. All these PF logjams are not helping. A PG/SG vet will elevate them to another level. Just 1. Mitch has Taj, we could keep Morris and dump the rest of these guys for 1 star.
Flex Luger
Job Is Finished
010101
C L O N E*0690//////
chat*
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
Forreal, I don’t understand why they don’t try to find some full time mentors for the young Knicks or pair them with these dudes over the summer. One that’s em always seemed like a good mentor for Frank was Clyde. I wonder why he’s never mentored a Knick.
You not the only one. A bunch of us here strictly for them and have been for the last 2 seasons at least but the FO is so against giving us that. As said time and again, fans will live and die with the young Knicks getting minutes regardless of results.
storyteller
Veteran
Yeah fam, Clyde makes all the sense in the world and even mentioned that Frank reminded him a bit of himself during one of the games. He's there, he's a lifelong Knick, that combo makes sense to me. I also understand the need for floor stretchers, but would have been totally fine passing on Ellington or Bullock for someone who really wouldn't demand minutes any more. Get us our own version of VC on the Hawks last year. My pick? Jamal Crawford. No longer the player that would eat into RJ's or Dot's or Zo's minutes; but a true veteran with feared range and enough handle to spell our inexperienced PG's a bit if they're getting pressed. I had a completely different view of how our plan B should have gone. We'd still have a similar record, maybe worse, but the kids would be the focal point plain and simple.
On another note, I've converted to the church of Tyrese Haliburton. He's in our range, maybe a bit further down if we get passed up and lose a spot or two in the draft. Another big PG who canscore and flat out create and has the college three locked down. Haliburton/RJ/Frank is a great three guard rotation with Dot in a complimentary role. If Frank keeps growing, he could slide into that group too. You either go Haliburton/RJ with Frank first off the bench and Dot next; or you go Haliburton/Frank/RJ depending on where Frank's shooting and overall development is after another offseason.
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