Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[Ty-Fife]

Smh

They hire Thibs then developing youth is out the window, we're gonna go star hunting and bring in older dudes to take over.

I'm done if we do that shyt since it means we literally gave up KP for nothing except to do the SAME shyt we always do. We were promised long term sustainability by trying to actually develop our guys and not swinging for the fence anymore . Hopefully this is just the media throwing shyt at the wall.

 

[GhostoftheMan]

THIBS? knicks finna waste another year

 

[Kitsch]

Windhorst said Thibs could also consider the Nets.

 

[Kitsch]

Okay, I've kind of sold myself on Thibs. Narrative: This might be his last opportunity as a Head Coach in the league. He's learnt from the mistakes he made in Chicago and Minnesota. This is a young and malleable team with a lot of flexibility in terms of $ and draft capital.


Caveats:
There isn't a Superstar mandate and we build properly through the draft.

He's the Head Coach and only that (FO make the personnel decisions).

 

[Ironman]

If they sign Thibs

 

[storyteller]

Can someone with a subscription please post the full article?

No charts, but results in order from highest to lowest. This is the team related part

Spoiler

Do you approve or disapprove of the job James Dolan has done as owner?
There is somewhat of baseline for this question. When we asked in October whether you thought Dolan had done a good job as the team’s owner, just 6 percent said yes and 91.8 percent said no. In the time since, Knicks fans have become even less approving of his stewardship, with 95.8 percent of respondents this time saying they don’t approve of the job Dolan has done as owner. This might not be that surprising. There have been a number of indicators that Knicks are not happy with Dolan — the loud “Sell the team” chant at Madison Square Garden in late January is just one.

What is your outlook for the Knicks’ future?
Pessimistic - 41.2%
Unsure - 32.9%
Optimistic - 25.9
Considering how much upheaval the Knicks have had in the last few months, this could’ve gone either way. As of now, a plurality of Knicks fans are pessimistic about the Knicks future. Maybe that’s because of seven straight losing seasons and the upheaval mentioned before. There’s also a large segment that isn’t sure of how to feel about the future of the Knicks, which is also understandable with a new team president without any track record in the position.

What was your reaction to the Knicks hiring Leon Rose as team president?
Unsure - 56.9%
Liked it. Good hire. - 30.1%
Didn't Like it. - 13%
What happens when the Knicks hire someone with no experience as a team president or in a front office to that position? Knicks fans seem uncertain how to feel about that move. Roughly 57 percent of people we surveyed don’t have a distinct positive or negative opinion about Rose’s hire — which is rare, since Knicks fans have an opinion on everything. Of the people who do have an opinion, they liked the hire by more than a two-to-one margin.

Should Mike Miller remain the Knicks head coach next season?
No - 56.8%
Yes - 43.2%
Miller has done a good job since taking over as the Knicks interim coach. The former career college coach has gone 17-27 as Knicks coach, leading them to the 10th-best record in the East in that time. His job, however, is not assured for next season. While a significant portion of Knicks fans who responded think he should remain the head coach for the 2020-21 season, the majority say the Knicks need someone else.

If Mike Miller isn’t the Knicks coach, who do you want as the next Knicks coach?
Kenny Atkinson - 57.9%
JVG - 11%
Becky Hammon - 8.9%
Mark Jackson - Not Shown
Other - Not Shown
Tom Thibodeau - Not Shown (these last three all have a similar chunk of the pie)
J Kidd - Not Shown (smallest result by far)
Rose may have a short or long search for the next coach if he doesn’t keep Miller, but he could also just ask the one-party search committee that is the Knicks fan base. Those who responded to our survey are pretty united on who the next Knicks coach should be: Kenny Atkinson. Despite seven options, about 58 percent said the former Nets coach (as of a month ago) should be next guy on the sidelines for the Knicks. It’s a pretty reasonable thought. Atkinson earned praise for his player development and culture-building in Brooklyn, and the Knicks needs that in droves. Former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy was the next most popular choice, then Spurs assistant Becky Hammon. Surprisingly, there doesn’t seem to be much desire for Tom Thibodeau, despite his track record.

Which is the next season the Knicks will reach the playoffs?
2022-2023 - 35%
2021-2022 - 28.8%
2024-2025 - 17.8%
2023-2024 - 16%
2021-2022 - Not shown too small
This is where it gets interesting. We have no idea what Rose is planning for the Knicks as the new head of basketball ops. Maybe he wants to take it slow. Maybe he wants to compete for the playoffs next season. Insert shrug emoji here. The plurality of Knicks fans surveyed here think the playoffs aren’t happening until the spring of 2023, which would mean that the franchise’s postseason-less streak extends to nine before playing playoff basketball again. One out of every 40 Knicks fan we asked (2.4 percent) thinks the Knicks will be a playoff team next season. About 18 percent of voters don’t expect the playoffs until the 2024-25 season, which is very far away.

 

[Kitsch]

No charts, but results in order from highest to lowest. This is the team related part

Spoiler

Do you approve or disapprove of the job James Dolan has done as owner?
There is somewhat of baseline for this question. When we asked in October whether you thought Dolan had done a good job as the team’s owner, just 6 percent said yes and 91.8 percent said no. In the time since, Knicks fans have become even less approving of his stewardship, with 95.8 percent of respondents this time saying they don’t approve of the job Dolan has done as owner. This might not be that surprising. There have been a number of indicators that Knicks are not happy with Dolan — the loud “Sell the team” chant at Madison Square Garden in late January is just one.

What is your outlook for the Knicks’ future?
Pessimistic - 41.2%
Unsure - 32.9%
Optimistic - 25.9
Considering how much upheaval the Knicks have had in the last few months, this could’ve gone either way. As of now, a plurality of Knicks fans are pessimistic about the Knicks future. Maybe that’s because of seven straight losing seasons and the upheaval mentioned before. There’s also a large segment that isn’t sure of how to feel about the future of the Knicks, which is also understandable with a new team president without any track record in the position.

What was your reaction to the Knicks hiring Leon Rose as team president?
Unsure - 56.9%
Liked it. Good hire. - 30.1%
Didn't Like it. - 13%
What happens when the Knicks hire someone with no experience as a team president or in a front office to that position? Knicks fans seem uncertain how to feel about that move. Roughly 57 percent of people we surveyed don’t have a distinct positive or negative opinion about Rose’s hire — which is rare, since Knicks fans have an opinion on everything. Of the people who do have an opinion, they liked the hire by more than a two-to-one margin.

Should Mike Miller remain the Knicks head coach next season?
No - 56.8%
Yes - 43.2%
Miller has done a good job since taking over as the Knicks interim coach. The former career college coach has gone 17-27 as Knicks coach, leading them to the 10th-best record in the East in that time. His job, however, is not assured for next season. While a significant portion of Knicks fans who responded think he should remain the head coach for the 2020-21 season, the majority say the Knicks need someone else.

If Mike Miller isn’t the Knicks coach, who do you want as the next Knicks coach?
Kenny Atkinson - 57.9%
JVG - 11%
Becky Hammon - 8.9%
Mark Jackson - Not Shown
Other - Not Shown
Tom Thibodeau - Not Shown (these last three all have a similar chunk of the pie)
J Kidd - Not Shown (smallest result by far)
Rose may have a short or long search for the next coach if he doesn’t keep Miller, but he could also just ask the one-party search committee that is the Knicks fan base. Those who responded to our survey are pretty united on who the next Knicks coach should be: Kenny Atkinson. Despite seven options, about 58 percent said the former Nets coach (as of a month ago) should be next guy on the sidelines for the Knicks. It’s a pretty reasonable thought. Atkinson earned praise for his player development and culture-building in Brooklyn, and the Knicks needs that in droves. Former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy was the next most popular choice, then Spurs assistant Becky Hammon. Surprisingly, there doesn’t seem to be much desire for Tom Thibodeau, despite his track record.

Which is the next season the Knicks will reach the playoffs?
2022-2023 - 35%
2021-2022 - 28.8%
2024-2025 - 17.8%
2023-2024 - 16%
2021-2022 - Not shown too small
This is where it gets interesting. We have no idea what Rose is planning for the Knicks as the new head of basketball ops. Maybe he wants to take it slow. Maybe he wants to compete for the playoffs next season. Insert shrug emoji here. The plurality of Knicks fans surveyed here think the playoffs aren’t happening until the spring of 2023, which would mean that the franchise’s postseason-less streak extends to nine before playing playoff basketball again. One out of every 40 Knicks fan we asked (2.4 percent) thinks the Knicks will be a playoff team next season. About 18 percent of voters don’t expect the playoffs until the 2024-25 season, which is very far away.

I don't understand the infatuation with Atkinson.

 

[storyteller]

Part two - players

Spoiler

What level player will RJ Barrett become?
Allstar - 47.4%
Very good Starter - 35.1%
Starter - 9%
All-Nba - Not Shown
Rotation Player - Near non-existent
Nearly half of Knicks fans surveyed think that RJ Barrett will end up being an All-Star after watching him play as a rookie. Barrett averaged 14.3 points, 5.0 rebounds, 2.6 assists and one steal per game, while shooting 40 percent from the floor. He had an uneven but promising first year in the NBA. That was enough to impress the fans who watched him most after the team took him third overall in the draft last June. Another 35 percent think he’ll be a very good starter, and hardly anyone thinks Barrett will end up as just a rotation player.

What type of player will Mitchell Robinson be?
Very Good Starter - 41.9%
Allstar - 37.2%
All-Nba - 10%
Starter - 9.3%
Rotation - Near non-existent
Knicks fans don’t have quite the expectations for their 22-year-old center as they do Barrett, but they do think they have someone very good in their franchise already. Robinson averaged 2.2 blocks per game over his first two seasons, while playing 21.2 minutes a night in that time. He shot 74.2 percent from the floor this season, which would be a record. Those are gaudy numbers. That combination of rim protection and elite finishing has Knicks fans surveyed here thinking the franchise will have someone who is at the minimum a very good starter.

What type of player will Frank Ntilikina be?
Rotation Player - 50.8%
Starter - 30.9%
Very Good Starter - 11%
End of Bench - Not Shown
Allstar - Near non-existent
Knicks fans who responded aren’t as high, on the whole, on Ntilikina, a 2017 lottery pick. About half surveyed think he’ll peak as a rotation player. There are the Ntilikina believers (11 percent) who think he’ll become a very good and 2.2 percent of voters who think he’ll be an All-Star eventually. Ntilikina has long been the most divisive Knicks player, though it’s not quite as polar here.

What kind of player will Kevin Knox be?
Rotation Player - 52.7%
End of Bench - 24.6%
Starter -18%
Very Good Starter - Not Shown
Allstar - Near non-existent
Knox has struggled over his first two seasons with the Knicks after getting picked ninth overall in the 2018 draft. He’s shown promise as a scorer and as a shooter, and there have been some shot-blocking moments, but nothing has been consistent. Knicks fans who responded here have soured on him after being extremely hyped following his 2018 Summer League debut. About half surveyed think Knox will be a rotation player. Surprisingly, about a quarter of our voters think Knox will end up as an end-of-bench player.

The best Knicks player ever is …
Ewing - 50%
Walt - 38.8%
Willis - Not Shown
King - Not Shown
Melo - Not Shown
This became a two-player race in the end, but Ewing won comfortably. It’s hard to argue with Ewing, an 11-time All-Star who made seven All-NBA teams. He averaged 23.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and 2.7 blocks per game over his first 13 seasons, the length of his prime. Frazier averaged 19.3 points, 6.1 assists and 2.0 steals per game over his 10 seasons with the Knicks, which took him through his age-31 season. But Frazier also won two rings and had a monster 36-point, 19-assist night in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals. Either would’ve been a good choice, and that’s where most Knicks fans who responded landed. Willis Reed got 4.1 percent of the vote, Bernard King got 3.6 percent, and Carmelo Anthony received 3.4 percent.

Which player do you prefer the Knicks take in the 2020 NBA draft if they could choose from any of them?
LaMelo - 39.9%
Edwards - 24.3%
Anthony - 8.3%
Wiseman - 6.9%
Hayes - 6.9%
Toppin - 5.9%
Haliburton -3.9%
Avdija - 3.1%
Okoro - 0.5%
Maxey - 0.03%
The Knicks could go a number of ways in the 2020 draft, not just with who they pick but where they pick. The range is from No. 1 to No. 9. But let’s assume the Knicks could pick anyone, i.e. the No. 1 pick. Who do Knicks fans want then? The answer, resoundingly, is LaMelo Ball. The point guard is known for his savvy passing and being the next in line from the Ball family to become an NBA lottery pick. Anthony Edwards, the Georgia guard, is the second choice. That follows the draft board — Sam Vecenie has those players at Nos. 1 and 2 in his rankings. If those two are off the board, let’s say the Knicks pick third, then it gets cloudier who Knicks fans want. Here is the rest of the voting:

Who is your favorite Knicks player of the last 40 years?
Seems like a lot of Knicks fans surveyed might be happy if Rose engineers a reunion with Anthony, his former client, next season. Anthony, according to our survey, is the most popular Knicks player of the last 40 years, beating out Ewing by a hefty margin. Here are the top 10 vote-getters:

1. Carmelo Anthony (34.9 percent)
2. Patrick Ewing (20)
3. Someone else (7.5)
4. Jeremy Lin (6.5)
5. John Starks (4.5)
6. Charles Oakley (4.1)
7. Kristaps Porzingis (4)
8. Bernard King (3.7)
9. Latrell Sprewell (3.5)
10. Allan Houston (3.4)

Though it seemed this list of candidates was pretty exhaustive, a significant portion of voters had a favorite player not on the board. If you’re one of those, then let us know in the comments who your favorite player is.

Who is your favorite current Knicks player?
Mitch - 39.6%
Barrett - 32.1%
Frank - 24%
Someone Else - Not Shown
Randle - Not Shown
Knox - Not Shown
Not surprisingly, Robinson and Barrett are the two most popular Knicks on the team right now. Ntilikina has his fans despite his on-court struggles. Those three players account for about 96 percent of our voters’ favorite players. Julius Randle got one more vote than Knox (both had 0.9 percent of the vote) and 2.5 percent of voters have a player who wasn’t on the board.

 

[storyteller]

I don't understand the infatuation with Atkinson.

Honestly, off of that list I'd pick him or Other. I like Atkinson for player development and if late game execution is the hole in his game then I like keeping Miller as his top assistant.

 

[Wargames]

I don't understand the infatuation with Atkinson.

he develops youth.... we have youth who need to be developed



Thibs to me is a sign we are back to quick fix stupid shyt.

 

[Kitsch]

Honestly, off of that list I'd pick him or Other. I like Atkinson for player development and if late game execution is the hole in his game then I like keeping Miller as his top assistant.

he develops youth.... we have youth who need to be developed



Thibs to me is a sign we are back to quick fix stupid shyt.

Fair enough.

 

[storyteller]

he develops youth.... we have youth who need to be developed



Thibs to me is a sign we are back to quick fix stupid shyt.

I don't want to jump to conclusions based on one-off decisions but a Thibs choice would concern me. There are worse choices to me...but I said the same thing about Fizdale and he turned out to be worse than I'd expected by a wide margin.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

I don't want to jump to conclusions based on one-off decisions but a Thibs choice would concern me. There are worse choices to me...but I said the same thing about Fizdale and he turned out to be worse than I'd expected by a wide margin.

i'm already out
I expect more Scrambles ball and RJ to be traded for a star
this franchise doesn't have a clue

 

[Kirk Thuglass]

thibs is such a classic knicks move i would be surprised if it didnt happen. it really fits their MO to a tee- washed, not a fit, but great name recognition.



im payin attention to knicks rumors during this shyt for a nice distraction and theyre still pissin me off

 

[Ty-Fife]

Part two - players

Spoiler

What level player will RJ Barrett become?
Allstar - 47.4%
Very good Starter - 35.1%
Starter - 9%
All-Nba - Not Shown
Rotation Player - Near non-existent
Nearly half of Knicks fans surveyed think that RJ Barrett will end up being an All-Star after watching him play as a rookie. Barrett averaged 14.3 points, 5.0 rebounds, 2.6 assists and one steal per game, while shooting 40 percent from the floor. He had an uneven but promising first year in the NBA. That was enough to impress the fans who watched him most after the team took him third overall in the draft last June. Another 35 percent think he’ll be a very good starter, and hardly anyone thinks Barrett will end up as just a rotation player.

What type of player will Mitchell Robinson be?
Very Good Starter - 41.9%
Allstar - 37.2%
All-Nba - 10%
Starter - 9.3%
Rotation - Near non-existent
Knicks fans don’t have quite the expectations for their 22-year-old center as they do Barrett, but they do think they have someone very good in their franchise already. Robinson averaged 2.2 blocks per game over his first two seasons, while playing 21.2 minutes a night in that time. He shot 74.2 percent from the floor this season, which would be a record. Those are gaudy numbers. That combination of rim protection and elite finishing has Knicks fans surveyed here thinking the franchise will have someone who is at the minimum a very good starter.

What type of player will Frank Ntilikina be?
Rotation Player - 50.8%
Starter - 30.9%
Very Good Starter - 11%
End of Bench - Not Shown
Allstar - Near non-existent
Knicks fans who responded aren’t as high, on the whole, on Ntilikina, a 2017 lottery pick. About half surveyed think he’ll peak as a rotation player. There are the Ntilikina believers (11 percent) who think he’ll become a very good and 2.2 percent of voters who think he’ll be an All-Star eventually. Ntilikina has long been the most divisive Knicks player, though it’s not quite as polar here.

What kind of player will Kevin Knox be?
Rotation Player - 52.7%
End of Bench - 24.6%
Starter -18%
Very Good Starter - Not Shown
Allstar - Near non-existent
Knox has struggled over his first two seasons with the Knicks after getting picked ninth overall in the 2018 draft. He’s shown promise as a scorer and as a shooter, and there have been some shot-blocking moments, but nothing has been consistent. Knicks fans who responded here have soured on him after being extremely hyped following his 2018 Summer League debut. About half surveyed think Knox will be a rotation player. Surprisingly, about a quarter of our voters think Knox will end up as an end-of-bench player.

The best Knicks player ever is …
Ewing - 50%
Walt - 38.8%
Willis - Not Shown
King - Not Shown
Melo - Not Shown
This became a two-player race in the end, but Ewing won comfortably. It’s hard to argue with Ewing, an 11-time All-Star who made seven All-NBA teams. He averaged 23.5 points, 10.4 rebounds and 2.7 blocks per game over his first 13 seasons, the length of his prime. Frazier averaged 19.3 points, 6.1 assists and 2.0 steals per game over his 10 seasons with the Knicks, which took him through his age-31 season. But Frazier also won two rings and had a monster 36-point, 19-assist night in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals. Either would’ve been a good choice, and that’s where most Knicks fans who responded landed. Willis Reed got 4.1 percent of the vote, Bernard King got 3.6 percent, and Carmelo Anthony received 3.4 percent.

Which player do you prefer the Knicks take in the 2020 NBA draft if they could choose from any of them?
LaMelo - 39.9%
Edwards - 24.3%
Anthony - 8.3%
Wiseman - 6.9%
Hayes - 6.9%
Toppin - 5.9%
Haliburton -3.9%
Avdija - 3.1%
Okoro - 0.5%
Maxey - 0.03%
The Knicks could go a number of ways in the 2020 draft, not just with who they pick but where they pick. The range is from No. 1 to No. 9. But let’s assume the Knicks could pick anyone, i.e. the No. 1 pick. Who do Knicks fans want then? The answer, resoundingly, is LaMelo Ball. The point guard is known for his savvy passing and being the next in line from the Ball family to become an NBA lottery pick. Anthony Edwards, the Georgia guard, is the second choice. That follows the draft board — Sam Vecenie has those players at Nos. 1 and 2 in his rankings. If those two are off the board, let’s say the Knicks pick third, then it gets cloudier who Knicks fans want. Here is the rest of the voting:

Who is your favorite Knicks player of the last 40 years?
Seems like a lot of Knicks fans surveyed might be happy if Rose engineers a reunion with Anthony, his former client, next season. Anthony, according to our survey, is the most popular Knicks player of the last 40 years, beating out Ewing by a hefty margin. Here are the top 10 vote-getters:

1. Carmelo Anthony (34.9 percent)
2. Patrick Ewing (20)
3. Someone else (7.5)
4. Jeremy Lin (6.5)
5. John Starks (4.5)
6. Charles Oakley (4.1)
7. Kristaps Porzingis (4)
8. Bernard King (3.7)
9. Latrell Sprewell (3.5)
10. Allan Houston (3.4)

Though it seemed this list of candidates was pretty exhaustive, a significant portion of voters had a favorite player not on the board. If you’re one of those, then let us know in the comments who your favorite player is.

Who is your favorite current Knicks player?
Mitch - 39.6%
Barrett - 32.1%
Frank - 24%
Someone Else - Not Shown
Randle - Not Shown
Knox - Not Shown
Not surprisingly, Robinson and Barrett are the two most popular Knicks on the team right now. Ntilikina has his fans despite his on-court struggles. Those three players account for about 96 percent of our voters’ favorite players. Julius Randle got one more vote than Knox (both had 0.9 percent of the vote) and 2.5 percent of voters have a player who wasn’t on the board.

How the hell does Jeremy Lin beat KP, King, Starks, Houston, Spree, Oak etc as a favorite over the last 40 years???