"Our Genitals Don't Actually Determine Our Gender" - Professor at Babylon University

[MischievousMonkey]

to match their physical appearance with what they feel internally is the usual cited reason. but a lot of them seem to be unsuccessful, either leading to complications (especially if poor) or just not achieving the desired result because changing your sex isn't a cure for gender dysphoria.

the one documentary I've watched related to this is of people born with both genitals who were recommended to have sex reassignment surgery. Called intersexion on youtube. All of them regret it, most have some sort of medical issue as a result.

Got it. Interesting. I'm not surprised.

Do you agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

 

[Consumed]

Got it. Interesting. I'm not surprised.

Do you agree that gender dysphoria is a mental illness?

Yeah I do. it works in tandem with other mental issues like severe depression and anxiety. I think anyone who is experiencing gender dysphoria needs to seek the help of a therapist.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

This is false the reason Jesus birthday is celebrated the 25th is because many pagan gods had the same birthday and was easier to convert the people.

Name them and list your sources of information.​

Zeus and Tammuz were both born December 25th a quick Google search will tell you that. Many other pagan Gods also share that same birthday.

Zeus wasn't born on Dec. 25th. Neither was Tammuz. Google won't tell you anything except 'someone said it'.

That someone was either Gerald Massey, Godfrey Higgins, or Alexander Hislop (and their 'Christ Myth' adherents)....all of which were used as 'sources' for Zeitgeist and all totally wrong.

​

 

[13473]

because gender is an expression of masculine/feminine values that change according to the environment, whereas sex is a universal constant unless born intersexed. gender is active. sex is a birthright.

shouldn't say they aren't linked socially - sex is usually used to determine gender expression. but when a person chooses to present themselves as the opposite gender, they are expressing themselves as that gender.

so this would claim tomboys are transgenders?

 

[SunZoo]

iono dawg gender and sex just seems like semantics to me

I never had an issue with trans anything but since I don't deal with the issues they deal with I never really cared to try to understand it til it was laid out to me in the a way that I could get it

There is nothing that biologically dictates that boys wear blue and girls wear pink, or you gotta have this type of name, this type of hairstyle, behave this way, live this type of life because you were born with this body part (your sex). Those are social constructs that not everybody fits into. Masculine females and effeminate males have always been around, people are just getting more vocal/pro-active about being able to be themselves without shame.

Why do transgenders go through sex "change"? Why do they take hormones etc?

Because they are trying to (erroneously IMO) to reconcile the difference between what body parts they have and their natural disposition so they can feel valid in their body. Just like some women going to get surgery to be more curvy...they want to feel more feminine. On the flip side, a female who's more masculine would tape down their breasts or remove them.

A part of the agenda as it were, is getting people who aren't trans to let people rock without as much ridicule.

Now I don't see a necessity to make it a staple in sex education in schools. Kids don't find this shyt nearly as confusing as adults do. If anything it's the parents that need educating so that when/if their kid starts to express themselves differently than they're expected to, they don't freak out, shame them and send them into hiding or into suicide attempts.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Wikipedia

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honour of the god Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for their slavesas it was seen as a time of liberty for both slaves and freedmen alike.[1] A common custom was the election of a "King of the Saturnalia", who would give orders to people, which were to be followed and preside over the merrymaking. The gifts exchanged were usually gag gifts or small figurines made of wax or pottery known as sigillaria. The poet Catullus called it "the best of days"

The problem with this is that EVERY month had a Roman holiday in it, so regardless of whatever day Christians celebrated it, you'd pull some other holiday out of thin air and proclaim that it was the origin of Christmas. Unfortunately, for you, Christians had been celebrating Christmas BEFORE it was even legal to do so. This is not some assertion I pulled out of my ass, this is historical fact. What that means is that your assertion that they co-opted the holiday to get more people to join makes NO sense.......
​

Christian in 120 CE: Hey, pagan dude. Come and join our festival. It's just like Saturnalia.
Pagan dude: FOH!!! You must got me fukked up, son. Centurions ain't killin' my ass like that Jesus character just because you want to give presents to each other.​

​

 

[Consumed]

so this would claim tomboys are transgenders?

depends if they identify themselves as girls or not. the difference in appearance is usually dramatic between a girl who thinks they're a guy and another who likes doing guy stuff, but knows they're a girl.

seems like a hard thing to always know upon first glance though. tricky topic.

 

[MischievousMonkey]

Yeah I do. it works in tandem with other mental issues like severe depression and anxiety. I think anyone who is experiencing gender dysphoria needs to seek the help of a therapist.

Again I fully agree.

Now let me say this. It seems that we agree on what gender and sex are, and on how gender dysphoria operate.

What I noticed is that the transgender community and its advocates conveniently confuse the definitions of sex and gender when it is opportune to a particular narrative. Notably, the narrative that considers "sex change" as not only a scientifically possible thing, a remedy to gender dysphoria, but also a normal or benign thing to do.

Case in point, the usage of nouns such as "man" and "woman". These terms always designated sexes, not gender. Gender roles evolved and changed throughout history in Western society, but those terms never strayed away from the sexes they designated. However, from what I've seen, the transgender community appears to defend vehemently the position that "transwomen" are women, and not just men that have what society deems as traditionally feminine psychological attributes (same goes for "transmen").

Another example: the recent article someone posted on this forum that showed someone getting fired from their job for stating that "only women give birth" . Here again, I notice how biological realities and social constructs are all of sudden conflated by the same people who pretend to possess a clear understanding of what sex and gender are.

It stands to reason, at least to me, that this confusion is not only dangerous to teach to kids as we see in this video, but also inefficient as a way to fight the mental illness that is gender dysphoria, for the reasons you and I evoked.

Telling a boy he can be a girl is factually false and won't solve gender dysphoria. One could argue it could cause some.

Telling a boy gender roles are traditional conceptions that are not universal laws is factually true, and a much better and honest way to fight gender dysphoria.

I learned about the difference between sex and gender briefly in school at 11, then briefly in high-school at 16, albeit not in America. It was enough and perfectly clear to me that yes, I'm a man, but cooking is not forbidden to me and that I didn't have to enjoy cars or the color blue to be what I am. I wish these simple and transparent lessons could be taught to children without lacing them with lies designed to cater to unfortunately mentally ill "transgenders".

 

[MR. SNIFLES]

 

[13473]

because gender is an expression of masculine/feminine values that change according to the environment

when a person chooses to present themselves as the opposite gender, they are expressing themselves as that gender.

depends if they identify themselves as girls or not. .

that is not what you said earlier.

and there are plenty of tomboys/studs who look, dress & present themselves like men, their behavior is masculine but they are women and consider themselves so

 

[SunZoo]

so this would claim tomboys are transgenders?

depends if they identify themselves as girls or not. the difference in appearance is usually dramatic between a girl who thinks they're a guy and another who likes doing guy stuff, but knows they're a girl.

seems like a hard thing to always know upon first glance though. tricky topic.

There's an article in the NY times that addresses this, I was trying to find another link for it because you have to subscribe but it's pretty interesting and non-biased on the issue.

"My daughter wears track pants and T-shirts. She has shaggy short hair (the look she requested from the hairdresser was Luke Skywalker in Episode IV). Most, but not all, of her friends are boys. She is sporty and strong, incredibly sweet, and a girl.

And yet she is asked by the pediatrician, by her teachers, by people who have known her for many years, if she feels like, or wants to be called, or wants to be, a boy.

In many ways, this is wonderful: It shows a much-needed sensitivity to gender nonconformity and transgender issues. It is considerate of adults to ask her — in the beginning. But when they continue to question her gender identity — and are skeptical of her response — the message they send is that a girl cannot look and act like her and still be a girl.

Left alone, would boys really never wear pink? (That’s rhetorical — pink was for decades considered a masculine color.) Would girls naturally reject Matchbox cars? Of course not, but if they show preferences for these things, we label them. Somehow, as we have broadened our awareness of and support for gender nonconformity, we’ve narrowed what we think a boy or a girl can look like and do.

The kids get it. But the grown-ups do not. While celebrating the diversity of sexual and gender identities, we also need to celebrate tomboys and other girls who fall outside the narrow confines of gender roles. Don’t tell them that they’re not girls.

Opinion | My Daughter Is Not Transgender. She’s a Tomboy.

Like I said in my other post...the kids get it, the adults are the one who need the education.

 

[Caribbean lover]

Again I fully agree.

Now let me say this. It seems that we agree on what gender and sex are, and on how gender dysphoria operate.

What I noticed is that the transgender community and its advocates conveniently confuse the definitions of sex and gender when it is opportune to a particular narrative. Notably, the narrative that considers "sex change" as not only a scientifically possible thing, a remedy to gender dysphoria, but also a normal or benign thing to do.

Case in point, the usage of nouns such as "man" and "woman". These terms always designated sexes, not gender. Gender roles evolved and changed throughout history in Western society, but those terms never strayed away from the sexes they designated. However, from what I've seen, the transgender community appears to defend vehemently the position that "transwomen" are women, and not just men that have what society deems as traditional feminine psychological attributes (same goes for "transmen").

Another example: the recent article someone posted on this forum that showed someone getting fired from their job for stating that "only women give birth" . Here again, I notice how biological realities and social constructs are all of sudden conflated by the same people who pretend to possess a clear understanding of what sex and gender are.

It stands to reason, at least to me, that this confusion is not only dangerous to teach to kids as we see in this video, but also inefficient as a way to fight the mental illness that is gender dysphoria, for the reasons you and I evoked.

Telling a boy he can be a girl is factually false and won't solve gender dysphoria. One could argue it could cause some.

Telling a boy gender roles are traditional conceptions that are not universal laws is factually true, and a much better and honest way to fight gender dysphoria.

I learned about the difference between sex and gender briefly in school at 11, then briefly in high-school at 16, albeit not in America. It was enough and perfectly clear to me that yes, I'm a man, but cooking is not forbidden to me and that I didn't have to enjoy cars or the color blue to be what I am. I wish these simple and transparent lessons could be taught to children without lacing them with lies design to cater to unfortunately mentally ill "transgenders".

repped and dapped this is almost word for word how i feel about this but you expressed it far better than ever i could especially what i put in bold.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

These kids are too young for this. Sex Ed at that age should mostly concentrate on biology, protecting/respecting personal space.

Kids that age shouldn’t be thinking about actually having sex or romantic relationships.

I don’t have a problem with the stuff about gender. They are undoubtedly going to have friends/family that are non traditional gender.

 

[DJSmooth]

Name them and list your sources of information.​

Zeus wasn't born on Dec. 25th. Neither was Tammuz. Google won't tell you anything except 'someone said it'.

That someone was either Gerald Massey, Godfrey Higgins, or Alexander Hislop (and their 'Christ Myth' adherents)....all of which were used as 'sources' for Zeitgeist and all totally wrong.

​

Lmao you definitely lost the argument I'm done here.

 

[Consumed]

Again I fully agree.

Now let me say this. It seems that we agree on what gender and sex are, and on how gender dysphoria operate.

What I noticed is that the transgender community and its advocates conveniently confuse the definitions of sex and gender when it is opportune to a particular narrative. Notably, the narrative that considers "sex change" as not only a scientifically possible thing, a remedy to gender dysphoria, but also a normal or benign thing to do.

Case in point, the usage of nouns such as "man" and "woman". These terms always designated sexes, not gender. Gender roles evolved and changed throughout history in Western society, but those terms never strayed away from the sexes they designate. However, from what I've seen, the transgender community appears to defend vehemently the position that "transwomen" are women, and not just men that have what society deems as traditional feminine psychological attributes (same goes for "transmen").

Another example: the recent article someone posted on this forum that showed someone getting fired from their job for stating that "only women give birth" . Here again, I notice how biological realities and social constructs are all of sudden conflated by the same people who pretend to possess a clear understanding of what sex and gender are.

It stands to reason, at least to me, that this confusion not only dangerous to teach to kids as we see in this video, but also inefficient as a way to fight the mental illness that is gender dysphoria, for the reasons you and I evoked.

Telling a boy he can be a girl is factually false and won't solve gender dysphoria. One could argue it could cause some.

Telling a boy gender roles are traditional elements that are not universal laws is factually true, and a much better and honest way to fight gender dysphoria.

I learned about the difference between sex and gender briefly in school at 11, then briefly in high-school at 16, albeit not in America. It was enough and perfectly clear to me that yes, I'm a man, but cooking is not forbidden to me and that I didn't have to enjoy cars or blue to be what I am. I wish these simple and transparent lessons could be taught to children without lacing them with lies design to cater to unfortunately mentally ill "transgenders".

There's a lot of naive people in the LGBTQ community who speak as if they're educated enough to provide medical/mental health advice, thinking that being gay or trans qualifies them to give instruction on matters that have no simple solutions. Telling a person that reassignment surgery is a solution for gender dysphoria is horrible. but that's the kind of stuff you get when leaders are chosen for reasons outside of academic qualifications or outreach experience

I agree that it's pedantic for someone to harp on the designation of male and female in that way. It is not constructive to chastise a person for using sex to determine used pronouns. There's a similar issue now with gender neutral pronouns that you have absolutely no way of knowing by appearance, but are still expected to hold true to them.

A major concern I have with teaching children this, aside from the fact that they likely won't understand a thing that's being said and will emerge with more questions than answers that their parents may not be willing to entertain, is who the instructors could be and the harm they could do if not properly informed on the topic. It does them no good to say that it's okay to switch genders, or even worse have surgery, without explaining any of the social consequences that will await them.

the benefit from my gender studies courses is being aware of people who are suffering because of dysphoria, botched surgeries, feeling excluded even within the gay community (not as close as they'd like to suggest; racism still exists in these spaces), the potential harm of restricting the behavior of boys and girls to fit only within the roles of their gender, so and so forth. I'm now more knowledgeable of things that I was ignorant to prior. but there was nothing in those journals, textbooks I read that provided a solution beyond therapeutic help and building communities with others in similar circumstance. and when people go beyond that, or try to attack others for not abiding by a set of rules they've enforced, that it's a real problem.