Peak for Peak who was the better defender: Lebron or Kobe

[fifth column]

Lebron in Miami could lock up 1-4 positions with ease. That versatility with his strength and IQ was overwhelming. What he did to prime Derrick Rose in those 4th quarters was insane to witness.

The only defenders I could think of with that ability are Kawhi and Draymond

Besides DRose for 1 play which other elite player did Lebron consistently lock up?

 

[Braman]

Where is the video evidence of these occurrences consistently taking place?

See, thats the problem with Kobe fans. It’s always ‘eye test’ or something else subjective. Forget video, let’s go to stats: All 5 of those dudes increased their scoring from reg season to playoffs vs LA

34 year old Reggie from 18 to 24ppg
Jalen rose from 18 to 22ppg
Chauncey from 17 to 21
Rip from 17 to 21
Bibby from 13 to 23

That’s not normal a few times, let alone every time. Add in 32 year old Ray Allen from 17 to 20 We won’t even count Paul pierce bc hey, he couldn’t guard him. Guards/wings were throwin a party when it was time to play LA

 

[TaxCollector13459]

Lmao LeBron, easily.

To Kobe’s credit he had more ‘want to’ than bron to put in the effort. But that’s bc Bron had/has always been tasked with running a whole offense and couldn’t afford to lock up for whole games, whole seasons. As opposed to Kobe played off ball in the triangle and didn’t have that playmaking burden. Also to his credit was trying to match Mike’s defensive accolades

But when Bron could afford to exert defensive energy forget about it. If he didn’t want you to score he’s bigger faster stronger can jump higher than you your water is off. Ask Derrick Rose

Used to lock my dog Monta Ellis too

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Besides DRose for 1 play which other elite player did Lebron consistently lock up?

I play against D-Rose? Really?

Redirect Notice

He caused the same problems for Tony Parker

He locked up Carmelo Anthony in the playoffs:

Paul Pierce too.

2008 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 19-5-4 on 40/33
2008 Pierce against Odom/Kobe Lakers: 22-5-6 on 43/39

2010 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 13-5-4 on 35/31
2010 Pierce against Artest/Kobe Lakers: 18-5-3 on 44/40


Now you do Kobe's list.

 

[FukkaPaidEmail]

Both overrated in some aspects Kobe drifted mentally some times playing D and Lebron being able to guard 1-4 was largely a myth/smoke and mirrors but I went with Lebron because he was able to rim protect a level Kobe physically couldn’t ..

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lol - Pierce, Carmelo, PG13 are wondering what you're talking about. Even Rose and Steph for stretches.

Kobe, meanwhile.... if he's guarding the best players, why did they all the best players always get buckets on the Lakers?

Here are the 7 top perimeter scoring threats that the Lakers faced in competitive series from 2000-2004. Tell me which one Kobe shut down:


15ppg on 58 TS% - Steve Smith regular season
18ppg on 61 TS% - Steve Smith against Lakers


18ppg on 60 TS% - Reggie Miller regular season
24ppg on 59 TS% - Reggie Miller against Lakers


18ppg on 55 TS% - Jalen Rose regular season
23ppg on 56 TS% - Jalen Rose against Lakers


31ppg on 52 TS% - Allen Iverson regular season
36ppg on 49 TS% - Allen Iverson against Lakers


14ppg on 51 TS% - Mike Bibby regular season
23ppg on 53 TS% - Mike Bibby against Lakers


18ppg on 52 TS% - Rip Hamilton regular season
21ppg on 50 TS% - Rip Hamilton against Lakers


17 ppg on 55 TS% - Chauncey Billups regular season
21ppg on 70 TS% - Chauncey Billups against Lakers



Outside of Iverson and Reggie, those aren't even 1st-tier scorers, yet they ALL got buckets against the Lakers. If Kobe was better on defense than Lebron, what the hell happened? It's not like he was defending the rim to make up for it.

Where is the video evidence of these occurrences consistently taking place?

lol, this whole thread is repeatedly claiming that Kobe's "advantage" is that he guards the other team's best perimeter player with no switches. So when I show the actual facts of the other team's best perimeter players consistently killing the Lakers, you need proof that Kobe wasn't getting hidden on someone else?

So which was it? Was Kobe getting lit up by Steve Smith, Mike Bibby, and Chauncey Billions, or was he getting hidden on old Pippen, Doug Christie, and Tayshun Prince?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Both overrated in some aspects Kobe drifted mentally some times playing D and Lebron being able to guard 1-4 was largely a myth/smoke and mirrors but I went with Lebron because he was able to rim protect a level Kobe physically couldn’t ..

2013 postseason alone he defended Monta Ellis (2), Mike Dunleavy (3), Jimmy Butler (3), Carlos Boozer (4), Paul George (3), David West (4), Kawhi Leonard (3), and Tony Parker (1). I wanna say he defended Lance (2) and Manu (2) as well but I can't remember for sure. And of course he would have guarded Rose (1) again if he had been healthy.

Hell, this article from the first round said that Bron was shutting down literally everyone.

It Takes James to Stop a Village (Published 2013)

LeBron James may soon receive his fourth Most Valuable Player award, largely for his offensive prowess, but his defensive skills may be unmatched.

www.nytimes.com

I agree with your other point though - even though I think Bron would be ahead of Kobe anyway (due to similar perimeter defense with more versatility and better defensive leadership), the biggest difference in their impact is that Bron's rim protection affects the other team's entire squad. Kobe on defense never changed the whole floor like that.

2016, you could see by Game 7 that Golden State was shook as fukk to drive to the rim to the point they weren't even trying anymore and when they did get there they usually missed (8-20 shooting at the rim for the game). That was cause of LBJ. Lebron's 16 blocks in the series were the most of ANY player in a Finals between 2011 and 2021 - no one else had more than 12.

Steph's body language after every Bron block was straight defeated.

 

[FukkaPaidEmail]

2013 postseason alone he defended Monta Ellis (2), Mike Dunleavy (3), Jimmy Butler (3), Carlos Boozer (4), Paul George (3), David West (4), Kawhi Leonard (3), and Tony Parker (1). I wanna say he defended Lance (2) and Manu (2) as well but I can't remember for sure. And of course he would have guarded Rose (1) again if he had been healthy.

Hell, this article from the first round said that Bron was shutting down literally everyone.

It Takes James to Stop a Village (Published 2013)

LeBron James may soon receive his fourth Most Valuable Player award, largely for his offensive prowess, but his defensive skills may be unmatched.

www.nytimes.com

I agree with your other point though - even though I think Bron would be ahead of Kobe anyway (due to similar perimeter defense with more versatility and better defensive leadership), the biggest difference in their impact is that Bron's rim protection affects the other team's entire squad. Kobe on defense never changed the whole floor like that.

2016, you could see by Game 7 that Golden State was shook as fukk to drive to the rim to the point they weren't even trying anymore and when they did get there they usually missed (8-20 shooting at the rim for the game). That was cause of LBJ. Lebron's 16 blocks in the series were the most of ANY player in a Finals between 2011 and 2021 - no one else had more than 12.

Steph's body language after every Bron block was straight defeated.

David West had Lebron in hell when he matched up with him in the playoffs,he physically couldn’t deal with him . That’s when the guarding 4s myth was exposed. He could guard face up 4s without issue but 4s that wanted to bang in the post would eat,which is why he didn’t match up with those types consistently. It was match up based .

 

[Professor Emeritus]

David West had Lebron in hell when he matched up with him in the playoffs,he physically couldn’t deal with him . That’s when the guarding 4s myth was exposed. He could guard face up 4s without issue but 4s that wanted to bang in the post would eat,which is why he didn’t match up with those types consistently. It was match up based .

No one shuts down every matchup at every position. Iverson put Kobe in hell, does that mean Kobe can't guard the 2?

Yes, David West was a tough matchup for Lebron and forced him to exert a ton of effort. But he guarded him in 2012, he guarded him in 2013, and he was still guarding him in 2014. If Lebron couldn't guard the 4, then you would think by the third straight year they would have stopped doing it, but there are still articles like this showing that Lebron was the primary defender on West even though it was a struggle.

NBA Playoffs: LeBron James suggests guarding David West wore him down

The Miami Heat aren't a team overstocked with size, though that's usually not an issue when your small forward is the size of most NBA power forw...

fansided.com

Regular season and playoffs, that was the 24th game between Lebron and West over the previous 3 seasons. Spolstra wouldn't have put Bron on West, supposedly his worst matchup, if the team's schemes weren't regularly expecting Bron to guard the 4. Yeah, they put Haslem on him the next game (for 18 minutes), but Bron was regularly guarding 4's game in and game out and the fact that he did it even against the worst matchup just proves that.

 

[fifth column]

I play against D-Rose? Really?

Redirect Notice

He caused the same problems for Tony Parker

He locked up Carmelo Anthony in the playoffs:

Paul Pierce too.

2008 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 19-5-4 on 40/33
2008 Pierce against Odom/Kobe Lakers: 22-5-6 on 43/39

2010 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 13-5-4 on 35/31
2010 Pierce against Artest/Kobe Lakers: 18-5-3 on 44/40


Now you do Kobe's list.

So he locked up Tony Parker for 1:30 minutes according to your trusted Lebron stan source lbjhistory I will go rewatch the Bron vs Pierce series in 2008 and 2010 and get back with you.

 

[fifth column]

lol, this whole thread is repeatedly claiming that Kobe's "advantage" is that he guards the other team's best perimeter player with no switches. So when I show the actual facts of the other team's best perimeter players consistently killing the Lakers, you need proof that Kobe wasn't getting hidden on someone else?

So which was it? Was Kobe getting lit up by Steve Smith, Mike Bibby, and Chauncey Billions, or was he getting hidden on old Pippen, Doug Christie, and Tayshun Prince?

Show some video evidence that Kobe was getting lit up by these players, your numbers only hold weight with blind witnesses such as yourself

 

[Professor Emeritus]

So he locked up Tony Parker for 1:30 minutes according to your trusted Lebron stan source lbjhistory I will go rewatch the Bron vs Pierce series in 2008 and 2010 and get back with you.

Goddamn, do you really know that little about basketball? When someone says 10:28 in the fourth, that's how much time is REMAINING in the fourth quarter, not how much time is gone by. Lebron guarded Tony Parker for the entire fourth (10:28 is when Parker entered the game) and held him to 0-2 shooting with a turnover.

Lebron had shut him down in Game 6 too, which a lot of those other posts refer to:

Show some video evidence that Kobe was getting lit up by these players, your numbers only hold weight with blind witnesses such as yourself

lol, so his whole thread has been claiming that Kobe always guarded the other team's best perimeter player, but that was just a lie? Why don't you provide evidence for THAT claim?

Lakers got routinely lit up by good perimeter players in their 2000-2004 run. So either:

A) Kobe didn't guard the other team's best perimeter player, or
B) Kobe guarded the other team's best player, but wasn't particularly effective


Who was guarding Steve Smith? Who was guarding Reggie Miller? Who was guarding Allen Iverson? Who was guarding Mike Bibby? Who was guarding Chauncey Billups? I really want to know.

 

[Copy Ninja]

@KingBenji @Regular_P

 

[etrofllenrod504]

He was legit in Steph head on the switch and on weak side rim protection

I remember Steph got away with a double dribble and got a bullshyt bucket on him

LeBron had arguably the greatest defensive play in history in this series

Playoff LeBron's defense was monstrous and in the RS he was a legit DPoY runner up

People are fukking retards how is Kobe winning this poll he wasn't capable of shyt like this

Cause he made Mamba faces

 

[etrofllenrod504]

I play against D-Rose? Really?

Redirect Notice

He caused the same problems for Tony Parker

He locked up Carmelo Anthony in the playoffs:

Paul Pierce too.

2008 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 19-5-4 on 40/33
2008 Pierce against Odom/Kobe Lakers: 22-5-6 on 43/39

2010 Pierce against Bron and the Cavs: 13-5-4 on 35/31
2010 Pierce against Artest/Kobe Lakers: 18-5-3 on 44/40


Now you do Kobe's list.

Sheesh