"Pusha T is not a top 50 rapper of all-time" - Jim Jones

[Long Live The Kane]

Pusha t the only rapper with "classic" albums that somehow have no classic songs. Ask a pusha t fan to name the classic songs from those albums that hit the culture and it's crickets

Actually we shouldn’t even be discussing this wack ass list. There are quite a few that should be on that list before Push. He for some reason gets overrated on these list….likely because of Ye affiliation

Clipse been darlings with hipster complex/pitchfork journalist types since their 2nd and 3rd albums which extended to push after he linked with Kanye when those same hipster journo types were acting like Ye was some kind of messianic genius level artise before he went full retard…So there’s a disconnect between them that treat Daytona like some kind of Chronic-level super classic…and the rest of the hip hop populace that treats it like the 18 minute long collection of song skippets that was forgotten two weeks after it dropped

 

[JustCKing]

Dunno why


It's not really misleading when "Grindin'" was 20 years ago and his latest album hit #1 on Billboard.

And it's disingenuous to compare him to Twista/Com when both were rapping and building a fanbase 10 years before Clipse even came out.

And I'm saying all this as someone that doesn't think he's top 50.

Fred.

It's misleading because he wasn't consistently making an impact for much of those 20 years though. A lot of Push's success is recent.

Twista built a name for himself in the 90's, but when he teamed with Kanye, his career went through the roof. That's not even an argument.

Common peaked with Like Water For Chocolate, but people wrote him off after Electric Circus. Then when he linked with Kanye for BE, it was both a critical and commercial comeback for Common.

 

[Shadow King]

I think it's misleading to say Push has been thriving for 20 years. Clipse as a group spent years in record label Hell, which wasn't necessarily their fault, but it was industry politics. The Re-Up Gang tapes kept fans fed in the interim. They had critical acclaim for both Lord Willin' and Hell Hath No Fury, but even the most die hard Clipse fans felt Til The Casket Drops was a step down. We all know Malice and Pusha went their separate ways after that. Push has dropped three critically acclaimed albums and two diss records. Great career overall, but when we look at Push, could you truly say this was one of the greatest runs in Hip Hop. I don't think so especially considering as dominant as The Neptunes were when Lord Willn' dropped, that album didn't really see The Clipse dominate. When Push got with Kanye, we didn't see it either. Again, we saw The Neptunes give #1 records to established artists and completely redefine a career like Snoop's. Didn't see them have that level of success of newer artists. We saw Kanye take Twista and Common and elevate both of them, but when it came to Push, we didn't see similar results.

By this logic Push shouldn't have had this career he's had then.

 

[JustCKing]

By this logic Push shouldn't have had this career he's had then.

How so?

There's MC's that are written off once they've peaked commercially. T.I.'s been in the game 20+ years, but if I was out here saying he's been thriving the whole 20 years, there would be 100 posts of people bringing up sales and what not to say how he hasn't been thriving.

 

[Shadow King]

How so?

There's MC's that are written off once they've peaked commercially. T.I.'s been in the game 20+ years, but if I was out here saying he's been thriving the whole 20 years, there would be 100 posts of people bringing up sales and what not to say how he hasn't been thriving.

If the people that put them on couldn't break new acts into stardom that well, then how is he still here? Thriving 20 years is a talking point to contend with the other breh, I didn't say all that, but he's here. And you yourself said the peak of his success, at least solo, is recent. So it essentially is independent of the Neptunes. You can attribute it to Kanye if you like, but how is that any different from Common or Twista who you also cited.

There's dozens and dozens of rappers who get attached to superstar producers or rappers and don't see any success. Look at 2000s Aftermath.

Can you explain why you think your argument points towards Pusha T being relevant 20 years later and peaking late in spite of the production team who opened the door for him being unable to break new acts, as an occurrence that is more usual than unusual?

 

[JustCKing]

If the people that put them on couldn't break new acts into stardom that well, then how is he still here? Thriving 20 years is a talking point to contend with the other breh, I didn't say all that, but he's here. And you yourself said the peak of his success, at least solo, is recent. So it essentially is independent of the Neptunes. You can attribute it to Kanye if you like, but how is that any different from Common or Twista who you also cited.

There's dozens and dozens of rappers who get attached to superstar producers or rappers and don't see any success. Look at 2000s Aftermath.

Can you explain why you think your argument points towards Pusha T being relevant 20 years later and peaking late in spite of the production team who opened the door for him being unable to break new acts, as an occurrence that is more usual than unusual?

Two things can be true at once. The Neptunes weren't good at breaking new acts.

Is Pusha T a star in 2023?

Pusha in 2023 isn't necessarily a peak either. What is he doing in 2023 that is on par or better than where he was at in 2002/2003? The only thing that's remained is the acclaim as The Clipse have been critical darlings as already stated.

 

[Shadow King]

Two things can be true at once. The Neptunes weren't good at breaking new acts.

Is Pusha T a star in 2023?

Pusha in 2023 isn't necessarily a peak either. What is he doing in 2023 that is on par or better than where he was at in 2002/2003? The only thing that's remained is the acclaim as The Clipse have been critical darlings as already stated.

Pusha being a star isn't really the argument. Him being relevant 20 years later with more success later than earlier, is.

What is the metric of star? Sales? It would be absolutely unreasonable to ask a 20 year vet to have the same sales throughout.

His album quality/critical acclaim is absolutely "on par on better" 20 years later. If you think he has made average albums, duo and/or solo, that have been wrongfully hyped, and think he doesn't deserve the acclaim, that's one thing. But you citing that yourself is answering your own question.

 

[JustCKing]

Pusha being a star isn't really the argument. Him being relevant 20 years later with more success later than earlier, is.

What is the metric of star? Sales? It would be absolutely unreasonable to ask a 20 year vet to have the same sales throughout.

His album quality/critical acclaim is absolutely "on par on better" 20 years later. If you think he has made average albums, duo and/or solo, that have been wrongfully hyped, and think he doesn't deserve the acclaim, that's one thing. But you citing that yourself is answering your own question.

I'm not expecting him to have the same sales throughout 20 years. Still, his bar is much lower considering The Clipse was a group that had one gold album and like three hits 20 years ago. That was their ceiling.

There's varying degrees of relevance. Push has a niche audience. In that realm he's relevant.

 

[Shadow King]

I'm not expecting him to have the same sales throughout 20 years. Still, his bar is much lower considering The Clipse was a group that had one gold album and like three hits 20 years ago. That was their ceiling.

There's varying degrees of relevance. Push has a niche audience. In that realm he's relevant.

His bar is much lower than what?

My point is that considering Neptune's inability to break new artists, Pusha shouldn't be musically relevant 20 years later. At all. Because history shows it doesn't work that way.

It seems as if you're debating something I'm not.

 

[JustCKing]

His bar is much lower than what?

My point is that considering Neptune's inability to break new artists, Pusha shouldn't be musically relevant 20 years later. At all. Because history shows it doesn't work that way.

It seems as if you're debating something I'm not.

The ceiling for them was gold and this was 20 years ago.

T.I. was a new artist who had a single produced by The Neptunes and he flopped. He found success outside of The Neptunes doing hustler/coke raps nonetheless. He was far more relevant years after the fact consecutive years and consistently. He had more success without The Neptunes than he did with them.

 

[Shadow King]

The ceiling for them was gold and this was 20 years ago.

T.I. was a new artist who had a single produced by The Neptunes and he flopped. He found success outside of The Neptunes doing hustler/coke raps nonetheless. He was far more relevant years after the fact consecutive years and consistently. He had more success without The Neptunes than he did with them.

TI wasn't "The Neptune's" artist, though. He was another artist in the early 200s who paid to hunt for a hit. That's not really a cosign or an attempt to break an artist as an extension of your creativity or brand, he was another check.

But, okay cool. TI.

TI and Push.

Still, by this logic, Push should not have had the career he's had. TI's success doesn't negate this.

Again you're having a debate that I'm not.

 

[bordeaux]

Bling bling was bigger than Keep It Thoro?

yes, cac.

man, you have some terrible, out of touch takes.

 

[Budda]

I'm not expecting him to have the same sales throughout 20 years. Still, his bar is much lower considering The Clipse was a group that had one gold album and like three hits 20 years ago. That was their ceiling.

There's varying degrees of relevance. Push has a niche audience. In that realm he's relevant.

You may be right but 14m views in a year is a hell of a 'niche' audience.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

You may be right but 14m views in a year is a hell of a 'niche' audience.

That has nothing at all to do with the megastar in sunglasses appearing in the video

 

[Will Ross]

he is a top 50 rappers.
If he was from New York he would be seen the same as jadakiss.