Question: Why Do Jamaican Side Dishes Mirror African American Side Dishes?

[Cadillac]

Black culture is still Black culture regardless of countries they're from.

No black culture is ADOS culture
Jamaican culture is Jamaican

 

[Grizzly]

Lowkey diaspora war thread but I'll answer....If a Jamaican restaurant is in a predominantly black area it's gonna serve shyt to cater to it's customers. It's not gonna be all Jamaicans coming in there. Growing up, my side dishes was shyt like octopus stew, ackee and saltfish, fried dumplin, breadfruit, chopped liver, mannish water, etc. the main course is probably oxtail, curry goat, curry chicken or baked fish. It's the same reason that Chinese food stores serve an Americanized version of Chinese food outside of the Chef's specials and half their menu is American dishes. You cater to your audience.

 

[invalid]

Lowkey diaspora war thread but I'll answer....If a Jamaican restaurant is in a predominantly black area it's gonna serve shyt to cater to it's customers. It's not gonna be all Jamaicans coming in there. Growing up, my side dishes was shyt like octopus stew, ackee and saltfish, fried dumplin, breadfruit, chopped liver, mannish water, etc. the main course is probably oxtail, curry goat, curry chicken or baked fish. It's the same reason that Chinese food stores serve an Americanized version of Chinese food outside of the Chef's specials and half their menu is American dishes. You cater to your audience.

Thank you. Never seen any of this in Jamaican restaurants around this way.

Thread wasn’t meant to be inflammatory.

However, there is a lot of contradictory information posted.

Some folks saying it is, some saying it isn’t.

So I’m still not sure at this point.

 

[Caca-faat]

Can you provide some recipes from other countries where the sweet potato is “candied” like in Soul Food and Jamaican cuisine?

Jamaicans don't candy their sweet potatoes on the island, they do that to cater to their audience in the US. I only knew what candied yams were when I became an adult. The sweet potatoes we have on the island are a different variety to your sweet potatoes with a pink skin and yellow/white flesh and can be quite stringy. It is usually boiled and served along side other "ground provisions" such as cho cho/ Christophine, pumpkin, yellow or white yam (not to be confused with your yams. Yellow yams can grow to the size of small child and are very starchy and not sweet at all) Yams come in soo many variations from dark purple like Ube, small dark and hairy like dasheen or coco (p.s not cocoa)
Too much to add but I'll stop there. They are also found in most soups that we make.

Would you say this is accurate from Wiki?

Side dishesEdit​

• Bok choy
• Breadfruit (boiled, fried or roasted)
• Callaloo
• Cooked rice
• Dumplings (boiled or fried)
• Festival
• Fried plantain
• Fried rice
• Green banana
• Ground provisions
• Macaroni pie
• Potato salad
• Rice and peas – Otherwise known as "Jamaican Coat of Arms".
• Seasoned rice - pumpkin or Callaloo plus spices
• Stir-fry or steamed vegetables
• Stew peas
• Turned cornmeal

So most of the side dishes served in restaurants: rice and beans (not rice and peas), candied sweet potatoes, greens, cabbage are for the American consumer?

Yes to the bolded except stew peas. Stew peas is a main dish and messing it up is a sackable offense, and is kinda big league.

We have a version of Fried cabbage which we call steamed cabbage, this can also have salted cod fish or smoked herring in it, if it doesn't its a side dish otherwise it would be a main dish served with sides of rice or ground provisions.

Isn't there a difference between a Yam and a Sweet Potato? Because a Sweet Potato is of the Americas.

Yes please see above

In Trinidad?

Yes they eat Macaroni and cheese across the Caribbean

I’ve been to about 20 jamaican restaurants over the years and they all offer the same sides - cabbage, greens, yams, Mac and cheese, red beans and rice, potato bread. The only sides that are not shared with AA cuisine are the plantains and beef patties.

Main dishes are another thing - Escovitch red snapper, oxtails, brown stew chicken, etc...

Red beans and rice are not the same thing as rice and peas. Rice and peas is an accompaniment to the meat like any side dish, the meat is the star. It appears your red beans are cooked with sausage and served WITH rice. Or rice and peas is rice cooked in a seasoned kidney bean broth/ stock that has coconut milk in it. This is cooked using the absorption method till the rice has absorbed the liquid and the grains are light and fluffy. Rice and peas can also be made with gungo/pigeon peas. I've never seen it done with black eyes peas on the island as part of the native cuisine unless someone sent a barell with non perishable items.

Also we have calaloo which is a relative of spinach and is not the same as turnip or Mustard greens. If you see any AA version of greens they are doing this for ya'll. Calaloo is a dark green leafy vegetable that is shredded and fried with onion, garlic, thyme, scotch bonnet etc then steamed in more or less its own juices.

Pasta is Italian and in England they’ve been eating variants of Mac and cheese for centuries. Jamaica was colonized by them.

Macaroni and cheese - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Jamaican restaurants do not cater to clientele what they serve is what they eat on the island

At the bolded for the most part yes, but from replies in this thread they clearly do.



For context, I was born and bred on the island and have no connection to the US outside of those family members that emigrated there. Still haven't visited.

 

[oGTRFG]

Pasta is Italian and in England they’ve been eating variants of Mac and cheese for centuries. Jamaica was colonized by them.

Macaroni and cheese - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Jamaican restaurants do not cater to clientele what they serve is what they eat on the island

Uhhhhh yeah they do, they also do a remix and fusion of American popular dishes

 

[invalid]

Uhhhhh yeah they do, they also do a remix and fusion of American popular dishes

This is true. Lots of Jamaican restaurants out here do jerk pasta alfredos, tacos, Quesadillas, egg rolls, etc.

 

[ISO]

Uhhhhh yeah they do, they also do a remix and fusion of American popular dishes

U don’t see this in NYC

 

[RareHunter]

This is my whole question while everyone is running in here to demonstrate they’re the biggest pan-Africans.

Are they catering to AA or are these authentic Jamaican dishes.

Catering to AA’s imo. I usually notice different side dishes, than 1:1 dishes.

 

[get these nets]

Jamaicans don't candy their sweet potatoes on the island, they do that to cater to their audience in the US. I only knew what candied yams were when I became an adult. The sweet potatoes we have on the island are a different variety to your sweet potatoes with a pink skin and yellow/white flesh and can be quite stringy. It is usually boiled and served along side other "ground provisions" such as cho cho/ Christophine, pumpkin, yellow or white yam (not to be confused with your yams. Yellow yams can grow to the size of small child and are very starchy and not sweet at all) Yams come in soo many variations from dark purple like Ube, small dark and hairy like dasheen or coco (p.s not cocoa)
Too much to add but I'll stop there. They are also found in most soups that we make.

Yes to the bolded except stew peas. Stew peas is a main dish and messing it up is a sackable offense, and is kinda big league.

We have a version of Fried cabbage which we call steamed cabbage, this can also have salted cod fish or smoked herring in it, if it doesn't its a side dish otherwise it would be a main dish served with sides of rice or ground provisions.

Yes please see above

Yes they eat Macaroni and cheese across the Caribbean

Red beans and rice are not the same thing as rice and peas. Rice and peas is an accompaniment to the meat like any side dish, the meat is the star. It appears your red beans are cooked with sausage and served WITH rice. Or rice and peas is rice cooked in a seasoned kidney bean broth/ stock that has coconut milk in it. This is cooked using the absorption method till the rice has absorbed the liquid and the grains are light and fluffy. Rice and peas can also be made with gungo/pigeon peas. I've never seen it done with black eyes peas on the island as part of the native cuisine unless someone sent a barbell with non perishable items.

Also we have calaloo which is a relative of spinach and is not the same as turnip or Mustard greens. If you see any AA version of greens they are doing this for ya'll. Calaloo is a dark green leafy vegetable that is shredded and fried with onion, garlic, thyme, scotch bonnet etc then steamed in more or less its own juices.

At the bolded for the most part yes, but from replies in this thread they clearly do.



For context, I was born and bred on the island and have no connection to the US outside of those family members that emigrated there. Still haven't visited.

This is a good post. I've always lived in metro areas with high concentration of Caribbean people,,so my default position was that JA restaurants are supported by their fellow Yardmen primarily, other Islanders, and those interested in their cuisine. Never seen them cater or alter menu for other clientele, so I assumed that most/all JA eateries around North America were like that.

Do you think that over the course of a century + of Jamaican immigration, that their diaspora's palette and diet has expanded to include similar foods that would be more accessible to them (and in season) in the countries they migrated to? You mentioned the difference between the locally grown yams and what would be available to them in US/Canada grocers.

 

[get these nets]

Lowkey diaspora war thread but I'll answer....If a Jamaican restaurant is in a predominantly black area it's gonna serve shyt to cater to it's customers. It's not gonna be all Jamaicans coming in there. Growing up, my side dishes was shyt like octopus stew, ackee and saltfish, fried dumplin, breadfruit, chopped liver, mannish water, etc. the main course is probably oxtail, curry goat, curry chicken or baked fish. It's the same reason that Chinese food stores serve an Americanized version of Chinese food outside of the Chef's specials and half their menu is American dishes. You cater to your audience.

Good post, but wouldn't what restaurants serve also be determined by what items are most accessible also?
Octopus, saltfish, breadfruit would be plentiful on the island, not so much from the food distributors in America.

 

[Illuminatos]

Yams
Mac and Cheese
Cabbage
Greens
Red Beans and Rice

Typical side dishes you get at a Jamaican restaurant.

Are these actual authentic Jamaican side dishes or are they catering to American taste (especially if they’re in black neighborhoods)?

If these are authentic Jamaican side dishes, were they cultivated external from AA influence?

My 95 year old Jamaican grandmother has been making all these foods since I was a child. Nothing to do with catering to Americans.
And is red beans and rice supposed to be rice and peas or stew peas?

 

[Caca-faat]

This is a good post. I've always lived in metro areas with high concentration of Caribbean people,,so my default position was that JA restaurants are supported by their fellow Yardmen primarily, other Islanders, and those interested in their cuisine. Never seen them cater or alter menu for other clientele, so I assumed that most/all JA eateries around North America were like that.

Do you think that over the course of a century + of Jamaican immigration, that their diaspora's palette and diet has expanded to include similar foods that would be more accessible to them (and in season) in the countries they migrated to? You mentioned the difference between the locally grown yams and what would be available to them in US/Canada grocers.

Jamaicans of a certain age eat Jamaican food MAJORITY of the time. If they call KFC "KENTUCKY" they probably eat Jamaican food every day except Fridays.

Their children on the other hand are first generation Americans and get tired of eating dumplin and green banana every day so will eat what their peers eat. By the time that first generation has children, those second generation children would have grown up in a mixed cuisine household. E.G my dad - First Generation Jamaican; will primarily cook Jamaican food. Whilst I was born and bred in Jamaica I will cook mostly non Jamaican food, and only if I'm really craving it will I make Jamaican food and that's because I know daddy will make it.

I have never seen a Jamaican take away Restaurant in London serve non Jamaican food. But to be fair I don't buy from West Indian restaurants.

 

[oGTRFG]

U don’t see this in NYC

Breh I live in nyc. Have you been to Negril BK or kokomo?

Look at their menus. You think nikkas in the caribbbean eat chicken and waffles, oxtail pizza or tacos?

 

[get these nets]

Jamaicans of a certain age eat Jamaican food MAJORITY of the time. If they call KFC "KENTUCKY" they probably eat Jamaican food every day except Fridays.

Their children on the other hand are first generation Americans and get tired of eating dumplin and green banana every day so will eat what their peers eat. By the time that first generation has children, those second generation children would have grown up in a mixed cuisine household. E.G my dad - First Generation Jamaican; will primarily cook Jamaican food. Whilst I was born and bred in Jamaica I will cook mostly non Jamaican food, and only if I'm really craving it will I make Jamaican food and that's because I know daddy will make it.

I have never seen a Jamaican take away Restaurant in London serve non Jamaican food. But to be fair I don't buy from West Indian restaurants.

Thanks. I get the part about assimilation/acculturation at each generation. I'm Haitian American.

I was asking about whether the definition of what ethnic food is expands in diaspora communities, when their native grown foods aren't as accessible.,And they find variations or substitutes.

*Some of us still call KFC Gino's, hehehehe

 

[Caca-faat]

Thanks. I get the part about assimilation/acculturation at each generation. I'm Haitian American.

I was asking about whether the definition of what ethnic food is expands in diaspora communities, when their native grown foods aren't as accessible.,And they find variations or substitutes.

*Some of us still call KFC Gino's, hehehehe

Nah, Jamaicans are suuuper closed minded when it comes to food. They ain't substituting shyt. If they ain't got it, they ain't got it. I don't eat mangoes in the UK cos the varieties are trash and unripe. I'll wait till I go to Jamaica and that's what most Jamaicans do. It has to be more or less exactly the same for them to substitute.