Raekwon kicks it at The Breakfast Club (2/27/14)

[up in here]

I don't know how anyone can justify each member not getting a piece of wu wear. The music is what made the wu name and logo popular. No music, no clothing. Sure the brand has taken on a life of its own to the point where people rock it with no knowledge of the music behind it but surely some money can be set aside at least for odb's children/grand children. Just because Power was able to create the brand due to the artist popularity doesn't make it right and mean the artist behind the brand shouldn't get a piece. One of you legal heads come in here and let us know if the members have a case against wu wear. Are they at least paid something for marketing and promoting of the wu logo?

It seems like Rza, His brother and Power have had a business mind from day one and have exploited the group for their own means. If they was some white jewish heads hip hop would be up in arms about this but since it's not it's all good.

All this talk about we family, that's my brother, "god" is just that, talk.

Nah, the Wu tang brand would have existed with or without each member outside Rza. He created that. He chose each member and supplied each beat. There was other MCs present in the 36 chambers sessions, but Rza chose who made it and who didnt. It was a hierarchy from the beginning. Like you said, the music was what made the name and the brand popular. Well, no Rza, no music. They didnt sit around and come up with the Wu Tang idea together or come to Rza with the idea, Rza came with the idea and chose who he wanted in it. And yeah, some of em shined brighter than others and their natural talent helped them go far, but like Rae said, in the beginning artists gotta play the role of a soldier before they can become Generals.

It would be exploitation if Power, Divine and Rza was eating off someone elses idea, like if Rae and Ghost came up with the idea of Wu-Tang and Power just signed em and stole their idea, or if the record deal prevented them from having solo careers. But you cant call it exploitation if they are following Rza's vision and repping for Rza's idea. They repped Wu cause it benifited them. they could have left at any time and started their own movements and their own brands. that was the nature of the Wu deal. They were free to have their own careers. There was no other deal in rap music like theirs. If they chose to rep Wu, it was for their own benefit.

 

[mson]

if you ever see the movie "black and white" which stars robert downey jr, brooke shields, power grant, elijah wood, allan houston, mike tyson and others, power plays a fictionalized version of himself, and even on there he was gettin gangsta.

Powers pawg game in that movie was

 

[Reign X]

why should rae get wu wear bread? if those 4 didnt put up the money, rae wouldnt have the career he has.

You really think Rae and the other Wu members should get nothing for Wu wear?

That's like NBA players getting nothing for jersey sales or tv revenue. I'll use your own logic. If owners didn't put up money for teams, players wouldn't have the career they have. But players do get a percentage of all that, it's how I believe the nba cap is set up. A percentage of revenue.

The rappers in Wu aren't really replaceable. You can't just go out and get 9 rappers, slap them with the brand and expect people to support it. It's not a regular job where they can easily replace someone. This is important because it gives the Wu members leverage in negotiating. Anyone with any business courses/education wouldn't be happy with getting screwed out of money like that. I would refuse to help Wu until they paid me fairly.

 

[mortuus est]

You really think Rae and the other Wu members should get nothing for Wu wear?

That's like NBA players getting nothing for jersey sales or tv revenue. I'll use your own logic. If owners didn't put up money for teams, players wouldn't have the career they have. But players do get a percentage of all that, it's how I believe the nba cap is set up. A percentage of revenue.

The rappers in Wu aren't really replaceable. You can't just go out and get 9 rappers, slap them with the brand and expect people to support it. It's not a regular job where they can easily replace someone. This is important because it gives the Wu members leverage in negotiating. Anyone with any business courses/education wouldn't be happy with getting screwed out of money like that. I would refuse to help Wu until they paid me fairly.

its different i say, no one knows if they were eating off it when it started, they probably was, but i dont think it should all be equal, if you aint involved in it fully than sit back and chill

 

[Reign X]

Nah, the Wu tang brand would have existed with or without each member outside Rza. He created that. He chose each member and supplied each beat. There was other MCs present in the 36 chambers sessions, but Rza chose who made it and who didnt. It was a hierarchy from the beginning. Like you said, the music was what made the name and the brand popular. Well, no Rza, no music. They didnt sit around and come up with the Wu Tang idea together or come to Rza with the idea, Rza came with the idea and chose who he wanted in it. And yeah, some of em shined brighter than others and their natural talent helped them go far, but like Rae said, in the beginning artists gotta play the role of a soldier before they can become Generals.

It would be exploitation if Power, Divine and Rza was eating off someone elses idea, like if Rae and Ghost came up with the idea of Wu-Tang and Power just signed em and stole their idea, or if the record deal prevented them from having solo careers. But you cant call it exploitation if they are following Rza's vision and repping for Rza's idea. They repped Wu cause it benifited them. they could have left at any time and started their own movements and their own brands. that was the nature of the Wu deal. They were free to have their own careers. There was no other deal in rap music like theirs. If they chose to rep Wu, it was for their own benefit.

The wu brand would not of existed without each member (a few of them sure, but others were a big part). No method man and they are way less marketable. Take away Rae and Ghost, the music wouldn't of been the same. Meth, Rae and Ghost could all leave now and no one would care about Wu. They should stick together and force a more fair deal. They have played their parts as soldiers way too long. 20 years and still getting jerked on Wu Wear? Method should of got his piece after he blew up and forced their hand.


- It's funny seeing people on coli side with owners and not the artists. It's very easy to see artists have been taken advantage of plenty in hip hop. A lot of them were poor and from the streets, not hard targets to take advantage of. Puff screwed the Lox for over a decade, Eazy E jerked NWA and Cube finally realized and left, and there's so many other examples

 

[mortuus est]

I don't know how anyone can justify each member not getting a piece of wu wear. The music is what made the wu name and logo popular. No music, no clothing. Sure the brand has taken on a life of its own to the point where people rock it with no knowledge of the music behind it but surely some money can be set aside at least for odb's children/grand children. Just because Power was able to create the brand due to the artist popularity doesn't make it right and mean the artist behind the brand shouldn't get a piece. One of you legal heads come in here and let us know if the members have a case against wu wear. Are they at least paid something for marketing and promoting of the wu logo?

It seems like Rza, His brother and Power have had a business mind from day one and have exploited the group for their own means. If they was some white jewish heads hip hop would be up in arms about this but since it's not it's all good.

All this talk about we family, that's my brother, "god" is just that, talk.

fuk it, no one is equal in the bizz world

 

[up in here]

The wu brand would not of existed without each member (a few of them sure, but others were a big part). No method man and they are way less marketable. Take away Rae and Ghost, the music wouldn't of been the same. Meth, Rae and Ghost could all leave now and no one would care about Wu. They should stick together and force a more fair deal. They have played their parts as soldiers way too long. 20 years and still getting jerked on Wu Wear? Method should of got his piece after he blew up and forced their hand.


- It's funny seeing people on coli side with owners and not the artists. It's very easy to see artists have been taken advantage of plenty in hip hop. A lot of them were poor and from the streets, not hard targets to take advantage of. Puff screwed the Lox for over a decade, Eazy E jerked NWA and Cube finally realized and left, and there's so many other examples

Nah, you're way off base. The fact that you compare Rza to Puffy and Eazy shows that you really dont know what you are talking about.

The Wu Tang deal was extremely unique in the industry. it was an umbrella that each artist could leave and go solo at any time. That's why the Wu deal was so notable. It gave them the freedom to do their own thing if they wanted, or they could choose to rep Wu or both. It wasn't regular record company slave deal shyt. Rae even said in this same interview that everybody had a cut, even Dirt when he was locked up.

And I don't know why you hung up on them not getting Wu-wear money. That was never the issue. Ghost and U-God ain't sue Rza for Wu-Wear money, it was about album royalties. But they settled that shyt years ago. And Rae didn't even comment on Wu Wear in this interview because he knows that Wu Wear isn't his. Yes they invested in the Wu Wear store in NY and i think the Wu Nails Salon and they ate off the store, but they didn't own the brand. What you said about the NBA players getting points for jersy's and TV revenue is more akin to album royalties. Do players get also get paid for hats and t shirts with the team logo but no player specific info? Do they eat off every dollar associated with the team? Nobody is getting jerked on Wu Wear, it dont belong to the wu members, that ain't the issue. Rae's beef is about album money.

The reason Wu members got money issues with Rza, Power and Divine is for two reasons, 1. Rza gets more money and 2. cause when the lawyers look at it they are going by traditional record company deals. In regards to the first point, Rza was getting more as both the producer and an artist on the first round of solo and group albums. Whether or not that was fair was up to the artists involved. In regards to the second point, they have always said the pie was divided to ensure all the Wu members were eating all the time of each project, that way no one had to hit the streets. Rae confirmed this point when he spoke on ODB getting his cut when he wasnt even there and I guarantee it also benifited Rae for that long period between OB4CL and OB4CL2. That's not traditional at all and may have been unfair when some artists had more draw than the others, but that's part of the reason Wu has had it's longevity.

If Wu had a traditional slave record deal like NWA or The Lox, they would have all been signed to Loud Records and would have had to either try get a solo album out on Loud or bought their way out of the group. Either one of those points would have prevented them from getting a lot of paper and made it much harder establishing their own solo careers. Im not saying it was the perfect deal for everybody and perhaps they do need to reevaluate the payment process for this last album but comparisons to Puffy and Eazy are way way off base.

 

[mortuus est]

Rza deserved to get more, to much stress dealing with to many people who dont understand stuff

 

[Reign X]

Do players get also get paid for hats and t shirts with the team logo but no player specific info? Do they eat off every dollar associated with the team? Nobody is getting jerked on Wu Wear, it dont belong to the wu members, that ain't the issue. Rae's beef is about album money.


If Wu had a traditional slave record deal like NWA or The Lox, they would have all been signed to Loud Records and would have had to either try get a solo album out on Loud or bought their way out of the group. Either one of those points would have prevented them from getting a lot of paper and made it much harder establishing their own solo careers. Im not saying it was the perfect deal for everybody and perhaps they do need to reevaluate the payment process for this last album but comparisons to Puffy and Eazy are way way off base.

Players get a share of ALL revenue, so even the t-shirts and hats without their name on it, and that's exactly how it should be. I'm just using Wu Wear as it was outlined in the interview. If they aren't getting money off that, which they 100% clearly should be, I wouldn't be surprised of them getting jerked elsewhere.

I didn't mean they got a record deal as bad as what Puff and Eazy gave out, but more using that as an example that there is a long history of artists getting screwed. You are right about the original deal being creative and it doesn't seem like RZA was trying to screw them at all.

Overall, we don't know the specifics. I just found it funny how everyone seemed to jump on Rae. If he says the business side isn't right, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on him for it. Hopefully, they get a fair deal as possible done and a good album with everyone comes out.

- I know they don't own the brand, but they are the brand. Meaning Wu can't just go on without them or replace them. Members like Meth, Ghost and Rae aren't replaceable. Those 3 should easily be able to leverage that to getting money from the brand.

 

[nieman]

Nah, you're way off base. The fact that you compare Rza to Puffy and Eazy shows that you really dont know what you are talking about.

The Wu Tang deal was extremely unique in the industry. it was an umbrella that each artist could leave and go solo at any time. That's why the Wu deal was so notable. It gave them the freedom to do their own thing if they wanted, or they could choose to rep Wu or both. It wasn't regular record company slave deal shyt. Rae even said in this same interview that everybody had a cut, even Dirt when he was locked up.

And I don't know why you hung up on them not getting Wu-wear money. That was never the issue. Ghost and U-God ain't sue Rza for Wu-Wear money, it was about album royalties. But they settled that shyt years ago. And Rae didn't even comment on Wu Wear in this interview because he knows that Wu Wear isn't his. Yes they invested in the Wu Wear store in NY and i think the Wu Nails Salon and they ate off the store, but they didn't own the brand. What you said about the NBA players getting points for jersy's and TV revenue is more akin to album royalties. Do players get also get paid for hats and t shirts with the team logo but no player specific info? Do they eat off every dollar associated with the team? Nobody is getting jerked on Wu Wear, it dont belong to the wu members, that ain't the issue. Rae's beef is about album money.

The reason Wu members got money issues with Rza, Power and Divine is for two reasons, 1. Rza gets more money and 2. cause when the lawyers look at it they are going by traditional record company deals. In regards to the first point, Rza was getting more as both the producer and an artist on the first round of solo and group albums. Whether or not that was fair was up to the artists involved. In regards to the second point, they have always said the pie was divided to ensure all the Wu members were eating all the time of each project, that way no one had to hit the streets. Rae confirmed this point when he spoke on ODB getting his cut when he wasnt even there and I guarantee it also benifited Rae for that long period between OB4CL and OB4CL2. That's not traditional at all and may have been unfair when some artists had more draw than the others, but that's part of the reason Wu has had it's longevity.

If Wu had a traditional slave record deal like NWA or The Lox, they would have all been signed to Loud Records and would have had to either try get a solo album out on Loud or bought their way out of the group. Either one of those points would have prevented them from getting a lot of paper and made it much harder establishing their own solo careers. Im not saying it was the perfect deal for everybody and perhaps they do need to reevaluate the payment process for this last album but comparisons to Puffy and Eazy are way way off base.

Plus, RZA gave them dudes back their Wu production deals like a decade ago, so this is no longer binding. They only get paid for their work put in. At the same time, it allows ANYONE affiliated to make money off the "Wu" brand, however he sees fit. RZA don't owe them n!ggas a damn thing, and at that point, if they aren't making money off the "Wu", it's on them. The only time RZA now sees a coin off of each of them, is when he's directly involved.

 

[Piff Perkins]

All the Wu would have decent money today if they had saved some. These dudes had multiple WORLD tours, and an album that sold gangbusters. Even if we assume they didn't make a lot off the album, the tours alone guaranteed big money. RZA is a snake but you also gotta look at the rest of the group not getting their shyt together.

There's lots of wasted potential in the Wu. I look at Meth and can't help but think he could still be selling records today. He adapts to any beat, is charismatic, the bytches still love him, etc. He is doing movie roles and getting dough but he could be so much bigger, if he had just wanted to. But he didn't.

Then you got Rae constantly getting bitter over not being the smartest man in the room, b. He made one of the greatest hip hop albums of all time, then essentially quit the Wu to do his next album, in order to prove he didn't "need" RZA; the album after that did even worse. Instead of sticking with RZA and making a dope followup to Cuban Linx in the 90s, he wasted valuable time.

Ghost out here not being hungry either. Here's a dude who is generally viewed as one of the greatest rappers EVER. Like Nas, every producer wants to work with him. Yet he's not doing enough to buzz. Why not do an album with Alchemist breh. If Jay-Z calls you to get on Heaven, you gotta respond; MCHG went plat, Ghost would still be getting royalty checks. Instead he ignored the call and did...whatever.

The Wu could go on a world tour right now and make millions, yet they're too dumb. Wu plus Capa, no entourages, just pack up and tour. Maybe go with Mobb Deep or something to make it even bigger. Record an album while on the road with everyone sharing ideas. But no....

White people LOVE the Wu. You got Quentin Tarantino wearing Wu Wear to formal engagements, brehs. He wouldn't have hesitated to do a Wu documentary for the 20th anniversary if asked. They could have been on Jimmy Fallon's show multiple times. They could have had MTV, Revolt, Complex, etc doing big stories on them. Maybe pull some strings and get in on one of them weird Grammy performances where they have different artists from different genres perform together. There are plenty of white and Jewish dudes in the industry who would open them gates for the Wu, due to growing up as fans. Yet the Wu went into the 20th anniversary with no plan and left MILLIONS of dollars on the table, over some sucker shyt. They couldn't even put out a Wu remix for the Drake track. Even if you don't like the fukking song, do that shyt and introduce yourself to his fans brehs. shyt is disgusting to me. I'm a Wu stan to the death of me, but all them dudes is stupid. Except for RZA, the snake.

 

[Turbulent]

All the Wu would have decent money today if they had saved some. These dudes had multiple WORLD tours, and an album that sold gangbusters. Even if we assume they didn't make a lot off the album, the tours alone guaranteed big money. RZA is a snake but you also gotta look at the rest of the group not getting their shyt together.

There's lots of wasted potential in the Wu. I look at Meth and can't help but think he could still be selling records today. He adapts to any beat, is charismatic, the bytches still love him, etc. He is doing movie roles and getting dough but he could be so much bigger, if he had just wanted to. But he didn't.

Then you got Rae constantly getting bitter over not being the smartest man in the room, b. He made one of the greatest hip hop albums of all time, then essentially quit the Wu to do his next album, in order to prove he didn't "need" RZA; the album after that did even worse. Instead of sticking with RZA and making a dope followup to Cuban Linx in the 90s, he wasted valuable time.

Ghost out here not being hungry either. Here's a dude who is generally viewed as one of the greatest rappers EVER. Like Nas, every producer wants to work with him. Yet he's not doing enough to buzz. Why not do an album with Alchemist breh. If Jay-Z calls you to get on Heaven, you gotta respond; MCHG went plat, Ghost would still be getting royalty checks. Instead he ignored the call and did...whatever.

The Wu could go on a world tour right now and make millions, yet they're too dumb. Wu plus Capa, no entourages, just pack up and tour. Maybe go with Mobb Deep or something to make it even bigger. Record an album while on the road with everyone sharing ideas. But no....

White people LOVE the Wu. You got Quentin Tarantino wearing Wu Wear to formal engagements, brehs. He wouldn't have hesitated to do a Wu documentary for the 20th anniversary if asked. They could have been on Jimmy Fallon's show multiple times. They could have had MTV, Revolt, Complex, etc doing big stories on them. Maybe pull some strings and get in on one of them weird Grammy performances where they have different artists from different genres perform together. There are plenty of white and Jewish dudes in the industry who would open them gates for the Wu, due to growing up as fans. Yet the Wu went into the 20th anniversary with no plan and left MILLIONS of dollars on the table, over some sucker shyt. They couldn't even put out a Wu remix for the Drake track. Even if you don't like the fukking song, do that shyt and introduce yourself to his fans brehs. shyt is disgusting to me. I'm a Wu stan to the death of me, but all them dudes is stupid. Except for RZA, the snake.

there are things more important in life than money, fame and mass appeal.

Meth seems like he's happy overall. why should he have done things different and maybe be miserable?

Rae always seemed like a bitter dude but again if he feels like he was getting jerked, who are we to tell him not to try to get what he thinks he deserves?

Ghost put in a lot of work and did his thing. Maybe Ghost doesn't like Jay that much and didn't feel like doing the track with him. Maybe he's happy the way he is too.

I understand you feeling like they wasted opportunities and i feel the same way as a fan but on the other hand, i understand it as a man. If all the members did stuff they didn't feel like the drake song, albums they feel they are getting jerked on, etc wouldn't that take away from the authenticity? You have to let people do what they feel will bring them closer to happiness. If they make mistakes, they make mistakes. I just don't feel like mistakes should be measured strictly on how much money "they missed out" on. The most important variables are peace of mind and happiness, not money.

Spoiler

that dude made a lot of money too but doesn't seem too happy...

 

[mson]

 

[No1]

there are things more important in life than money, fame and mass appeal.

Meth seems like he's happy overall. why should he have done things different and maybe be miserable?

Rae always seemed like a bitter dude but again if he feels like he was getting jerked, who are we to tell him not to try to get what he thinks he deserves?

Ghost put in a lot of work and did his thing. Maybe Ghost doesn't like Jay that much and didn't feel like doing the track with him. Maybe he's happy the way he is too.

I understand you feeling like they wasted opportunities and i feel the same way as a fan but on the other hand, i understand it as a man. If all the members did stuff they didn't feel like the drake song, albums they feel they are getting jerked on, etc wouldn't that take away from the authenticity? You have to let people do what they feel will bring them closer to happiness. If they make mistakes, they make mistakes. I just don't feel like mistakes should be measured strictly on how much money "they missed out" on. The most important variables are peace of mind and happiness, not money.

Spoiler

that dude made a lot of money too but doesn't seem too happy...

There's something to do this, but guys like Pharell and Jay make a bunch of money and seem happy. Money allows them to do whatever they want and they stay within themselves. Look at superstars like Timberlake who can disappear whenever they want. It was only a few years ago that Method Man felt some type of way about being overlooked and Joe Budden saying he would tear his head off. These guys care about perception. I find it hard to believe that Ghost has a problem with Jay when he was in the Fade to Black documentary and the last time he had an album that got good promotion was when Jay was President of Def Jam. Ghost just does whatever he wants. Raekwon is looking at like "I'm in my 40s" and you have to strike while the iron is hot to put yourself and your family in the best position for the future. I can't fault him for that.

 

[up in here]

There's something to do this, but guys like Pharell and Jay make a bunch of money and seem happy. Money allows them to do whatever they want and they stay within themselves. Look at superstars like Timberlake who can disappear whenever they want. It was only a few years ago that Method Man felt some type of way about being overlooked and Joe Budden saying he would tear his head off. These guys care about perception. I find it hard to believe that Ghost has a problem with Jay when he was in the Fade to Black documentary and the last time he had an album that got good promotion was when Jay was President of Def Jam. Ghost just does whatever he wants. Raekwon is looking at like "I'm in my 40s" and you have to strike while the iron is hot to put yourself and your family in the best position for the future. I can't fault him for that.

In regards to Mef, he stepped back from the music for a while cause his lady was had cancer and with everything they were going through he didn't want his business out there in the spotlight at that time. You gotta remember that as much as artists love music, they also got shyt going on in their personal lives just like anybody else.