Replace Harden with AD are rockets still No 1 Seed?

[King Jove]

If Harden is average defensively, who da hell is below average?

All those things that you say Harden does degrade during the playoffs. While AD has looked even better in the playoffs.

This is Harden's playoff history:

2010: Averages 7ppg on 39% shooting in a first-round loss to the Lakers, stumbling to just 2 points on 1-3 shooting in the deciding Game 6.

2011: Actually plays well in getting the Thunder to the WCF and shows out decent against the Mavs in a WCF loss. This will be his career playoff high point.

2012: Chokes terribly in the Finals, averaging 12ppg on 37% shooting and looking like the weak point in the Thunder offense for that series.

2013: Loses in the first round to a Westbrook-less OKC team. Harden goes 7-22 with 4 turnovers in the deciding game with the Thunder guards lighting him up left and right.

2014: Loses in the first round to a Portland team that hadn't won a playoff series since 2000.

2015: In Game 6 of the 2nd round, goes 5-20 with only 2 rebounds and 3 assists while getting lit up left and right by CP3 in what should be the deciding game, only to be bailed out by Josh Smith and company in a massive 4th-quarter comeback while Harden rode the pine. Follows it up by going down to the Warriors in one of the worst deciding games in NBA playoff history, shooting 2-11 while committing a playoff-record 12 turnovers and 5 personal fouls.

2016: Goes down weakly to the Warriors in the 1st round, blown out by 33 in the deciding game.

2017: Loses to a Kawhi-less Spurs in the 2nd round in another WOAT deciding game, going 2-11 with 6 turnovers before fouling out while letting the starting guard combo of Patty Mills and Jonathan Simmons abuse him all night long. Loses by 40 to a team that had Patty and Simmons as the 2nd and 3rd options on offense.

2018: CP3 shows that he can do what Harden can't, helping carry the Rockets to a 1st-round win despite Harden going 8-21 in the deciding game, then carrying them to a 2nd-round win over the Jazz in a series where Harden went 8-22 and 7-22 in the last two games. CP3 incredibly stakes Houston to a 3-2 lead in the WCF despite Harden going 5-21 with 6 turnovers in Game 5, but when CP3 goes down the Rockets fold too, with Harden shooting 41% and committing 14 turnovers in the final two games.


Harden ALWAYS chokes in the playoffs because his game isn't good enough for the playoffs. He racks up stats in the regular season with teams that are built ideally for him to rack up stats, but they are empty. Whenever the defense locks down and the refs drop the number of bs fouls they're willing to call, Harden begins looking hopeless.

Seriously, NO ONE in playoff history has choked as badly, as consistently, in big games as Harden has.

can you not read?

the thread is

Replace Harden with AD are rockets still No 1 Seed?

you're bringing up playoffs when that has nothing to do with the thread and even then harden has more WCF appearances than Davis, has made it out the first round more than Davis, has never missed the playoffs as a number 1 like Davis, and has never been swept in the playoffs like Davis.

if harden has choked in the playoffs then NO ONE has choked more in the regular season than Anthony Davis.

0 50 win season as a superstar

you replace AD with harden, the rockets are a worse offensive team, worse shooting team, will have no bench once you start gordon, no guards after cp3 and gordon, and are not that much of a better defensive team.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

can you not read?

the thread is

Replace Harden with AD are rockets still No 1 Seed?

you're bringing up playoffs when that has nothing to do with the thread and even then harden has more WCF appearances than Davis, has made it out the first round more than Davis, has never missed the playoffs as a number 1 like Davis, and has never been swept in the playoffs like Davis.

if harden has choked in the playoffs then NO ONE has choked more in the regular season than Anthony Davis.

0 50 win season as a superstar

Even Kobe wasn't winning 50 games as the lone star on a bad team. Come on now.

How can AD be "choking" during the regular season when he was 1st-team All-NBA in his last three healthy seasons?

The Rockets win regular season games because of good schemes and good personnel that fit together. Since Harden joined they've gone 15-7 in games where he didn't play. (not counting the last game of the season when they throw on purpose). If they 15-7 in the regular season without him, how you gonna give him all the credit for their wins? They would be just as good or better with AD in the regular season, and far better in the playoffs.

 

[King Jove]

Even Kobe wasn't winning 50 games as the lone star on a bad team. Come on now.

How can AD be "choking" during the regular season when he was 1st-team All-NBA in his last three healthy seasons?

The Rockets win regular season games because of good schemes and good personnel that fit together. Since Harden joined they've gone 15-7 in games where he didn't play. (not counting the last game of the season when they throw on purpose). If they 15-7 in the regular season without him, how you gonna give him all the credit for their wins? They would be just as good or better with AD in the regular season, and far better in the playoffs.

AD can't even win 50+ games with demarcus cousins playing 48 games.

harden won 56 games in 2014 with dwight only playing 41 games and cousins waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than dwight. those excuses can kick rocks

replace AD with harden the rockets are worse offensively and not that much better defensively.

who the fukk is gonna make up for over 265 made 3's? damn sure not gonnabe AD.

you start eric gordon then the rockets have NO BENCH.

they finish behind golden state in the standings and still lose to them in the playoffs (in less games too)

 

[Preach Jackson]

Idk it be promising if they still had ariza but with melo?! nah i ain’t feeling that roster

If Harden is average defensively, who da hell is below average?

All those things that you say Harden does degrade during the playoffs. While AD has looked even better in the playoffs.

This is Harden's playoff history:

2010: Averages 7ppg on 39% shooting in a first-round loss to the Lakers, stumbling to just 2 points on 1-3 shooting in the deciding Game 6.

2011: Actually plays well in getting the Thunder to the WCF and shows out decent against the Mavs in a WCF loss. This will be his career playoff high point.

2012: Chokes terribly in the Finals, averaging 12ppg on 37% shooting and looking like the weak point in the Thunder offense for that series.

2013: Loses in the first round to a Westbrook-less OKC team. Harden goes 7-22 with 4 turnovers in the deciding game with the Thunder guards lighting him up left and right.

2014: Loses in the first round to a Portland team that hadn't won a playoff series since 2000.

2015: In Game 6 of the 2nd round, goes 5-20 with only 2 rebounds and 3 assists while getting lit up left and right by CP3 in what should be the deciding game, only to be bailed out by Josh Smith and company in a massive 4th-quarter comeback while Harden rode the pine. Follows it up by going down to the Warriors in one of the worst deciding games in NBA playoff history, shooting 2-11 while committing a playoff-record 12 turnovers and 5 personal fouls.

2016: Goes down weakly to the Warriors in the 1st round, blown out by 33 in the deciding game.

2017: Loses to a Kawhi-less Spurs in the 2nd round in another WOAT deciding game, going 2-11 with 6 turnovers before fouling out while letting the starting guard combo of Patty Mills and Jonathan Simmons abuse him all night long. Loses by 40 to a team that had Patty and Simmons as the 2nd and 3rd options on offense.

2018: CP3 shows that he can do what Harden can't, helping carry the Rockets to a 1st-round win despite Harden going 8-21 in the deciding game, then carrying them to a 2nd-round win over the Jazz in a series where Harden went 8-22 and 7-22 in the last two games. CP3 incredibly stakes Houston to a 3-2 lead in the WCF despite Harden going 5-21 with 6 turnovers in Game 5, but when CP3 goes down the Rockets fold too, with Harden shooting 41% and committing 14 turnovers in the final two games.


Harden ALWAYS chokes in the playoffs because his game isn't good enough for the playoffs. He racks up stats in the regular season with teams that are built ideally for him to rack up stats, but they are empty. Whenever the defense locks down and the refs drop the number of bs fouls they're willing to call, Harden begins looking hopeless.

Seriously, NO ONE in playoff history has choked as badly, as consistently, in big games as Harden has.

THISSSS^^^

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

The Houston strip club community would be the biggest losers.

 

[GilSho]

This thread is proof of the greatness of Harden. Any team he plays on is always considered stacked after it's played out.

Dude hasn't played with an All-Star in his Rockets career but without fail, they'll hype up his supporting cast forgetting he's the one elevating them to that level.


Quick reminder that AD struggled to make the Playoffs with Ryan Anderson & Eric Gordon.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

AD can't even win 50+ games with demarcus cousins playing 48 games.

harden won 56 games in 2014 with dwight only playing 41 games and cousins waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than dwight. those excuses can kick rocks

You cherry picked those examples in the worst way.

AD went 20-8 to finish this season, then swept Portland and took a game off Golden State without Cousins playing a single one of those games.

Harden won 41 games in 2016 with dwight playing 71 of them.

Both of my examples come AFTER your examples. So apparently AD with no Cousins at all is better than Harden with Dwight.

Or maybe basketball isn't a two-man game and anyone trying to cherry-pick two random seasons with no context outside of one teammate need to learn something about basketball.

This thread is proof of the greatness of Harden. Any team he plays on is always considered stacked after it's played out.

Dude hasn't played with an All-Star in his Rockets career but without fail, they'll hype up his supporting cast forgetting he's the one elevating them to that level.

Since Harden joined, Rockets have gone 15-7 in games where he didn't play (not counting thrown 82nd games). So obviously they got a squad even without him.

If the Rockets considered stacked, then why is it that they've lost in the first round 3 times since Harden joined, and would have gone out earlier in 2015 and 2018 if his teammates didn't elevate the team to wins in key games without any help from him?

And you're wrong, Dwight was an All-Star in his first year with the Rockets.

And this squad last year was fantastic - Clint Capela was 1st in the NBA in FG%, 2nd in blocks, and 7th in offensive rebounds. CP3 averaged 19 and 8 with bulldog defense, Eric Gordon averaged 18ppg and was top-10 in the NBA in made threes, and Trevor Ariza/P.J. Tucker were both three-and-D guys. It's just stupid to reduce the team to who the "all-star" teammates were, otherwise people would claim that squads like the 2004 Pistons and 2011 Mavs were crap (just 1 all-star each) when both of those teams were elite.

Quick reminder that AD struggled to make the Playoffs with Ryan Anderson & Eric Gordon.

Did you just dredge up AD's record back when he was only 21 and missed 14 games while Anderson and Gordon missed 20+ games each?

And they STILL won 45 games that season.

Quick reminder that Harden only won 41 games with him, Dwight, Capela, Ariza, and Beverly playing the whole season.

 

[King Jove]

You cherry picked those examples in the worst way.

AD went 20-8 to finish this season, then swept Portland and took a game off Golden State without Cousins playing a single one of those games.

Harden won 41 games in 2016 with dwight playing 71 of them.

Both of my examples come AFTER your examples. So apparently AD with no Cousins at all is better than Harden with Dwight.

Or maybe basketball isn't a two-man game and anyone trying to cherry-pick two random seasons with no context outside of one teammate need to learn something about basketball.

like you cherry picking playoff games and playoff series where harden lost without even being the favorite.


don't like it when i use your same tactics against you.

anthony davis won only 34 games in 2016 playing while 75 games.

even harden at his worst surpasses that.

quick reminder, harden still hasn't not lead a team to the playoffs as the man or gotten swept like AD.

no 50 win season.

2 playoff appearances in 6 years.


anthony davis the regular season CHOKER.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

like you cherry picking playoff games and playoff series where harden lost without even being the favorite.


don't like it when i use your same tactics against you.

Cherry picking? I listed every damn postseason in Harden's career.

Other than 2012 he ended the playoffs looking terrible every. damn. year.



2010: Averages 7ppg on 39% shooting in a first-round loss to the Lakers, stumbling to just 2 points on 1-3 shooting in the deciding Game 6.

2011: Actually plays well in getting the Thunder to the WCF and shows out decent against the Mavs in a WCF loss. This will be his career playoff high point.

2012: Chokes terribly in the Finals, averaging 12ppg on 37% shooting and looking like the weak point in the Thunder offense for that series.

2013: Loses in the first round to a Westbrook-less OKC team. Harden goes 7-22 with 4 turnovers in the deciding game with the Thunder guards lighting him up left and right.

2014: Loses in the first round to a Portland team that hadn't won a playoff series since 2000.

2015: In Game 6 of the 2nd round, goes 5-20 with only 2 rebounds and 3 assists while getting lit up left and right by CP3 in what should be the deciding game, only to be bailed out by Josh Smith and company in a massive 4th-quarter comeback while Harden rode the pine. Follows it up by going down to the Warriors in one of the worst deciding games in NBA playoff history, shooting 2-11 while committing a playoff-record 12 turnovers and 5 personal fouls.

2016: Goes down weakly to the Warriors in the 1st round, blown out by 33 in the deciding game.

2017: Loses to a Kawhi-less Spurs in the 2nd round in another WOAT deciding game, going 2-11 with 6 turnovers before fouling out while letting the starting guard combo of Patty Mills and Jonathan Simmons abuse him all night long. Loses by 40 to a team that had Patty and Simmons as the 2nd and 3rd options on offense.

2018: CP3 shows that he can do what Harden can't, helping carry the Rockets to a 1st-round win despite Harden going 8-21 in the deciding game, then carrying them to a 2nd-round win over the Jazz in a series where Harden went 8-22 and 7-22 in the last two games. CP3 incredibly stakes Houston to a 3-2 lead in the WCF despite Harden going 5-21 with 6 turnovers in Game 5, but when CP3 goes down the Rockets fold too, with Harden shooting 41% and committing 14 turnovers in the final two games.

 

[King Jove]

blah blah blah

if harden is a choker, AD is even more of massive choker because harden is more accomplished than him.

wake me when AD has 1 50 win season or leads a team to the WCF.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

if harden is a choker, AD is even more of massive choker because harden is more accomplished than him.

wake me when AD has 1 50 win season or leads a team to the WCF.

AD doesn't even have one choke-job that would make it onto Harden's top-ten list.

But I forgot that this is The Coli, where literally any argument about any quality of any player, ever, can be reduced to team wins as if it's not a 5-on-5 sport.

 

[King Jove]

AD doesn't even have one choke-job that would make it onto Harden's top-ten list.

But I forgot that this is The Coli, where literally any argument about any quality of any player, ever, can be reduced to team wins as if it's not a 5-on-5 sport.

Harden doesn't have as many regular season choke jobs as Anthony Davis.

and AD's even not close to how many dominate games harden has had in the playoffs



Harden has more 40 point playoff games than Davis has playoff wins.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You're losing this argument so bad.

35 and 14 shooting 14-26 with 4 blocks and 2 steals to beat the Blazers by 2 on Portland's home floor.

47 and 10 shooting 15-23 with 3 blocks to close out #3 seed Portland and send them packing in an upset series win.

33 and 18 shooting 15-27 with 4 steals to blow out the Warriors in a Game 3.


In 2018 alone those are three monster games from A.D. better than ANY game Harden has put up.

Even back in 2015 when he was still a youngun, A.D. averaged 32 and 11 on 54% shooting with 3 blocks/game against the Warriors. Harden has been on better teams, but A.D. has played better. Saying that Harden is a better playoff performer than A.D. would be like saying that Paul George is better than CP3.

Harden doesn't have as many regular season choke jobs as Anthony Davis.

and AD's even not close to how many dominate games harden has had in the playoffs

You're jumping from one awful talking point to another.

The standard is random 40-point games now? So I guess that Rick Barry is more dominant in the playoffs than Magic Johnson, Tim Duncan, and Larry Bird combined.

You're just throwing out point totals as the sole answer without any context whatsoever. I listed Harden choking in his 10 biggest games since he joined the Rockets (not even counting the terrible Finals with the Thunder), and your response is "but he scored 40 a few times!"

Exactly ZERO of those supposed "dominant games" by Harden came in an upset win. Three came in losses (one in an upset loss against Westbrook's terrible Thunder team) and the other two came in home wins against Minny and Utah.

 

[King Jove]

you're the master of jumping. you can't even stay on topic because you know anthony davis is a regular season CHOKER and this thread is about the REGULAR SEASON.

Exactly ZERO of those supposed "dominant games" by Harden came in an upset win.

now you're telling blatant lies.



45/9/5 in upset win to not get swept LIKE DAVIS DID AGAINST THE WARRIORS IN 2015

now you've been exposed as a blatant liar to try to prove a point. not going back and forth with someone who either blatantly lies or simply doesn't know what the fukk they're talking about.

 

[who_better_than_me]

AD and CP3 pick and roll/pop

But what about the half the games cp3 missed.