Retired NbA player goes on anti-analytics rant , say nerds were jealous of real athletes

[triplehate]

Yeah I think for the stars if they are great at anything you build around that strength. I forgot who said it but basically they were saying stars are going to be stars, analytics is used to determine the types of players to surround those stars with.

I think the problem is the Rockets. Where people look at their high win totals and just attribute it to to the system so they try to copy the methodology of shooting as many threes as possible. For talent deficient teams it gives them a fighting chance in each game.




The problem with both of those teams isn't that they were built around the post, it's that they didn't have enough shooting around those post/mid-range players to take advantage of the attention that those players can draw. If you're going to have two inside players like that you need knockdown shooters from deep to give those players room to work.

Maybe it's just because it's the Grizzlies but you're never gonna get those shooters.

 

[badboys11]

Eddie Johnson is a hall of famer??? He is???? Learn something new everyday

 

[THE K-MAN]

Eddie always been good in my book

Gene Peterson

 

[El Coupeacabra]

It’s not a good example. The point is that teams can not duplicate the Warriors. The Warriors have literally two of the 3 or 4 best shooters of All-TIME on their team. Teams are seeing shooting as this skill that every one can just do. They can’t. You can’t shoot like Steph. You can’t shoot like Klay. Them dudes are next level. They same way everybody can’t be Shaq , or Kobe or Mike.

Why couldn't the 76ers keep pace with the Raptors last year?

Why couldn't Indiana keep pace with Miami in 2013/14?

What caused 2015-16 OKC to eventually fall to Golden State?

You CAN NOT beat a capable 3 point shooting team by trying to slow the game to a grind and match their 3's with 2's in today's NBA UNLESS you have a very athletic 4/5 who is a B2Basket beast and can guard stretch 4/5's.

The "top of the key iso, screen a shooting big, dump it to said big or hit the corner for a 3" might be the single most efficient play in the history of the sport. No post up play is touching that set.

You have to shoot 60% (!!!) from the field on post ups to match a 40% 3 point shooter.

How do Joel Embiid and Al Horford match the output of 3 38% 3 point shooters?? They don't. They lose.

 

[The Connoisseurs]

Sixers should go all in on their height advantage. Have Embiid, Horford and Simmons take turns in the post. fukk it.
They have the perimeter defenders to defend the 3 too. If you can get high percentage chances at the rim while effectively defending lower % 3 pointers I feel like the numbers would be in your favor

Sixers would only have “5 seconds” to operate in the key and teams can pack it up in there if you don’t have the shooters to put some respect on it. Ben can’t maximize his potential because he can’t shoot so he would entry pass set screens and try to cut form the weak side to the basket which would be hard if the paint is clogged.

* Brett brown did asst coach for the spurs so the twin tower system can either work or burn

 

[mastermind]

Stop dodging the point the 52nd leading scorer in league history should be in the hall period this ain't baseball bruh.

First, it’s usually 20,000 points gets you in the hall of fame.

Even with that, do you think Antawn Jamison should be in the hall of fame? He scored more points than Eddie Johnson and is over 20,000. Tom Chambers was a much better player than Johnson and had a better peak. Nowhere close. He also scored more than Johnson and had higher averages, as did Jamison.

Joe Johnson? Cliff Robinson? Walter Davis? Terry Cummings?

Research before you hit submit, bredrin. Eddie Johnson never even made an all-nba team yet you want him in the hall of fame.

Also Eddie Johnson is the 55th highest scorer in nba history. Reggie Theus is a hundred points behind him, should he be in the hall of fame?

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Football has always been about numbers/stats/analytics to some extent going back to the days of Gil Brandt and the Cowboys wayyy back.

Running the football was always considered paramount due to the inherent risk of throwing the ball. As the rules relaxed for the passing game, people started to throw more using analytics to support the change in strategy. In a game that revolves around team dynamics, every little piece of data matters.

Basketball has always been about great individual stars more than teams. Star players are harder to quantify with stats/analytics and sometimes they're able to succeed even when shyt doesn't make sense (A.I. comes to mind as dat dude despite being a weak/streaky shooter at best). Outside of stars however, average Joe's are much more effective with these numbers. If you know Bob Smith is a very efficient 3-pt shooter (makes 39.5% of his 3's no matter where he is behind the arc) but is when he has to create his own shot off the dribble and shoot contested mid-range jumpers............you should have Bob shoot the damn 3. Now for someone like LeBron or Kawhi, analytics might help "some" but those dudes, you're better off letting them do their thing. They can make plays that people should not be able to make in high leverage situations. That's not always easy to account for.

 

[threattonature]

Maybe it's just because it's the Grizzlies but you're never gonna get those shooters.

I agree, but to me it's crazy to dismiss a style of play based on a team that wasn't built properly to take advantage of that style of play. For how many years did people say that teams couldn't win a title with an offense based around great shooting until the Warriors (and really the Spurs before) won. NBA and its analysts are all about copying whatever is currently working which actually plays into the hands of the teams best at that style. Warriors only had 2 and later 3 players once they got KD that was shooting a high volume of three point shots. No other team has those great shooters or a James Harden so it's crazy to try and emulate that style instead of finding a style to counter that.

 

[Consumed]

If every team had a Shaq or a Kemp, or a Robinson or a Duncan or an actual player that can post up then they wouldn't be saying the post up is dead. Don't say it's dead because your player is shyt at it.

Kemp and D rob weren't dominant post up players though. if you put them into todays league they'd thrive as P&R and transition scorers more so than as isolationists. Notice how badly D Rob struggled in the playoffs as a scorer relative to the regular season? It was because he didn't have great b2b fundamentals. Embiid is actually better than him in that way (not saying he's better overall though).

this is part of the problem. there really haven't been that many dominant post up bigs in league history, but people assume that if a big from back in the day scored a lot of points he must have done so through back to basket offense.

 

[IsThatBrothaMouzone?]

Of course, bashing analytics too much makes these brehs sound anti-intellectual. "We don't need no school on the court. Fukk all this 'rithmetic." Analytics should not drive every decision made but it has its place.

 

[SchoolboyC]

This subforum should love DeRozan and LMA the way y'all talk

They both play like it's still the 90s yet they don't get any love on here.

Spurs & Pacers are the two teams that play closest to the style of play they hype yet get paid dust

 

[threattonature]

First, it’s usually 20,000 points gets you in the hall of fame.

Even with that, do you think Antawn Jamison should be in the hall of fame? He scored more points than Eddie Johnson and is over 20,000. Tom Chambers was a much better player than Johnson and had a better peak. Nowhere close. He also scored more than Johnson and had higher averages, as did Jamison.

Joe Johnson? Cliff Robinson? Walter Davis? Terry Cummings?

Research before you hit submit, bredrin. Eddie Johnson never even made an all-nba team yet you want him in the hall of fame.

Also Eddie Johnson is the 55th highest scorer in nba history. Reggie Theus is a hundred points behind him, should he be in the hall of fame?

fukk you, Hang Time was a classic. Reggie should be in the hall as a contributor just based off that lol.

 

[Illin Degenerate]

its the unintended consequence of the 3pt shot which is why it should be eliminated. obviously wont happen but i wish it would to see how players and teams would adjust to a more natural game that isnt so driven by 3>2.

 

[mastermind]

fukk you, Hang Time was a classic. Reggie should be in the hall as a contributor just based off that lol.

He was definitely a better coach than Coach Katowinski.

 

[MrFantastic]

Why couldn't the 76ers keep pace with the Raptors last year?

Why couldn't Indiana keep pace with Miami in 2013/14?

What caused 2015-16 OKC to eventually fall to Golden State?

You CAN NOT beat a capable 3 point shooting team by trying to slow the game to a grind and match their 3's with 2's in today's NBA UNLESS you have a very athletic 4/5 who is a B2Basket beast and can guard stretch 4/5's.

The "top of the key iso, screen a shooting big, dump it to said big or hit the corner for a 3" might be the single most efficient play in the history of the sport. No post up play is touching that set.

You have to shoot 60% (!!!) from the field on post ups to match a 40% 3 point shooter.

How do Joel Embiid and Al Horford match the output of 3 38% 3 point shooters?? They don't. They lose.

breh, as a sixers Fan, the sixers lost on a last second once in a lifetime shot. They didn’t lose bc of three point shooting. . The lost bc BB is ass of a coach. Without legit scoring a basket for the last 4 mins we still almost won. Nothing to do with shooting

Pacers were simply not as good as the Heat

OKC losing to the Warriors?? Come in bro OKC choked that series away.

You falling into the same trap. Not every player is shooting 40% from three.