Rick Ross - Mastermind ethered AGAIN by another review, this time by Needle Drop

[WEKetchum]

I don't think he understands street hip hop though. A lot of hip hop fans don't really understand street music. Some people can appreciate the visceral, raw aspect such as the dudes who review the stuff at Pitchfork.

I think he shows decent understanding of it in this review of Oxymoron, though.



I think it's worth mentioning that Mastermind is a pretty divisive album. Some people think it's Ross' best album ever, some people were extremely disappointed with it. It isn't a project that's universally praised like Teflon Don or Rich Forever. I think Fantano's opinion is just one of many of those that are circulating.

 

[OG Talk]

I think you've outlined the argument better than some other people in this thread, so . But I still don't completely agree.

I agree that empathy, environment and life experience can mold expertise. But musical knowledge can mold expertise, too. I don't think musical expertise should be ignored in situations like this, because that's still a legitimate audience. After all, we aren't grading Rick Ross' actual street activity - we're grading his music. I would value the opinions from the people you suggested, but I don't think that means that Anthony Fantano's opinion doesn't have any value as well. I think both have something valuable to contribute to the conversation. IMO, there's room from feedback from anyone who has some sort of substantial context behind their opinions - whether that context is also being in the streets, or if that context is from being a passionate/well-studied music fan. I'm only going to disqualify an opinion once I hear it and it actually sounds uninformed.

When I listen to Fantano's review he has very little criticism about Ross sonically.. It's usually about content...

Besides...It takes a lifetime to become well studied in ONE form of music..How does this guy become an expert on everything from Bad Brains, to Taylor Swift to Chief Keef?



The trained ear that can recognize good metal isn't necessarily the same that can recognize good hip hop.. Hip hop itself has so many different sub genres that its difficult to even consider yourself an expert on "good hip hop"...Thats vague...Because Suave House isn't attempting to do the same thing as Marley Marl...So you can't attack it with the same sensibilities...

 

[WEKetchum]

When I listen to Fantano's review he has very little criticism about Ross sonically.. It's usually about content...

Besides...It takes a lifetime to become well studied in ONE form of music..How does this guy become an expert on everything from Bad Brains, to Taylor Swift to Chief Keef?



The trained ear that can recognize good metal isn't necessarily the same that can recognize good hip hop.. Hip hop itself has so many different sub genres that its difficult to even consider yourself an expert on "good hip hop"...Thats vague...Because Suave House isn't attempting to do the same thing as Marley Marl...So you can't attack it with the same sensibilities...

Between "God Forgives, I Don't" and "Mastermind," Fantano has said the following:

-That Ross' production is hit or miss.
-That Mastermind hurts because it's just the same old Rick Ross, and that he doesn't do anything new. That the most interesting part of it is the features.
-IMO, his best critique is that Ross' narrative doesn't have enough tension//friction; that whenever he does bring up friction, that they're only footnotes and he doesn't offer detail. As an analogy, he said to imagine the movie Scarface, but edited down to only be the scenes of Tony Montana being rich, getting women, partying and snorting coke.

"In my opinion, Rick Ross is the least interesting rapper to be approaching gangsta rap at this angle. According to the pictures and the stories that he paints, being a drug lord is incredibly boring. That's because Ross' descriptions and his stories never have any tension, progression or depth. ... If you subtract all the moments where Al Pacino is coming to power and falling off his throne, you get a boring movie and a boring character. When you repeat the strategy here, you get a boring album. On this album, Ross has nothing to talk about except for how on top he is. And he does it so lazily, you wonder how he got on top in the first place."

That's content-based, but it's musical critique. And even though I'm a Ross fan, it's valid.

And like I said, even if he isn't the de facto hip-hop expert, I still think he has valuable things to say about rap. I don't take everything he says as gold; I disagree with some of his points, and I agree with others. But I don't think his opinion should be completely invalidated.

 

[RTF]

I think he shows decent understanding of it in this review of Oxymoron, though.



I think it's worth mentioning that Mastermind is a pretty divisive album. Some people think it's Ross' best album ever, some people were extremely disappointed with it. It isn't a project that's universally praised like Teflon Don or Rich Forever. I think Fantano's opinion is just one of many of those that are circulating.

Schoolboy Q & TDE in general are popular among hipsters though. You go to a Kendrick or SBQ concert there's going to be a lot of hipster (& white) people. SBQ & Ross don't appeal to the same demographic. SBQ is a more street Asap Rocky or Kendrick but he's not in that lane where he could do songs with Young Scooter & Guwop.

I'm not basing my opinion on one review. I've peeped his stuff for 2 years at least. I'm at the stage where I can predict what he won't like based on name alone. It's not that he doesn't like Mastermind. Its' not that he doesn't like Rick Ross (he doesn't fwiw). He doesn't like music that aims to appeal to the streets and black women.

Same thing with those Dead End Hip Hop guys. They shouldn't bother reviewing commercial hip hop or street based hip-hop. They won't like it.

At this stage, very few people can talk knowledgeably on all hip-hop. It's too diverse. And if you can talk knowledgeably on all hip-hop, even fewer will be able to do the same for indie music & dance music etc.

I've been to predominantly indie festivals. I've been to Coachella/hipster festivals. I've been to big and small hip hop shows. I' ve been to hip hop club shows. Jazz shows. If there's a person to can knowledgeably talk on all of the above. it's not Needle Drop.

 

[RTF]

Fully agree with @gatorking. It's so difficult to even be an authority on all hip hop.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

Dudes I know IRL like the album and so do I

 

[OG Talk]

Between "God Forgives, I Don't" and "Mastermind," Fantano has said the following:

-That Ross' production is hit or miss.
-That Mastermind hurts because it's just the same old Rick Ross, and that he doesn't do anything new. That the most interesting part of it is the features.
-IMO, his best critique is that Ross' narrative doesn't have enough tension//friction; that whenever he does bring up friction, that they're only footnotes and he doesn't offer detail. As an analogy, he said to imagine the movie Scarface, but edited down to only be the scenes of Tony Montana being rich, getting women, partying and snorting coke.

"In my opinion, Rick Ross is the least interesting rapper to be approaching gangsta rap at this angle. According to the pictures and the stories that he paints, being a drug lord is incredibly boring. That's because Ross' descriptions and his stories never have any tension, progression or depth. ... If you subtract all the moments where Al Pacino is coming to power and falling off his throne, you get a boring movie and a boring character. When you repeat the strategy here, you get a boring album. On this album, Ross has nothing to talk about except for how on top he is. And he does it so lazily, you wonder how he got on top in the first place."

That's content-based, but it's musical critique. And even though I'm a Ross fan, it's valid.

And like I said, even if he isn't the de facto hip-hop expert, I still think he has valuable things to say about rap. I don't take everything he says as gold; I disagree with some of his points, and I agree with others. But I don't think his opinion should be completely invalidated.

I disagree with his assesment of God Forgives I Don't being all about the triumph and party life of the drug dealer..

I mean did he even listen to the words of Ashamed, Hold Me Back and Triple Beam Dreams?


He even called Andre's verse on Sixteen "underwhelming" and dismissed it with no further commentary..

I don't think dude isn't good at dissecting Black art because he's white.. It's because he's lazy, arrogant and out of touch...

But if you like your rap albums to be broken down by Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons then I'm sure he has some redeeming qualities..

 

[sun raw]

I don't know about authenticity but if Fantano's got good ideas, he'd be much better off writing them down because I don't have the patience to watch him talk for almost 10 minutes. This review actually benefits because it's less than 4 minutes.

 

[WEKetchum]

I disagree with his assesment of God Forgives I Don't being all about the triumph and party life of the drug dealer..

I mean did he even listen to the words of Ashamed, Hold Me Back and Triple Beam Dreams?


He even called Andre's verse on Sixteen "underwhelming" and dismissed it with no further commentary..

I don't think dude isn't good at dissecting Black art because he's white.. It's because he's lazy, arrogant and out of touch...

But if you like your rap albums to be broken down by Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons then I'm sure he has some redeeming qualities..

For "Ashamed" he said, "you get some friction in this track, and in other tracks, whether it's against other drug dealers, or against Rick Ross' past where he talks about being poorer, or against some kind of inner remorse, but all this stuff that could be really important to Rick Ross' character are treated like minor footnotes that don't really matter, and that no one's reading into anyway." I think that applies to "Hold Me Back," too: he really only gives half of the first verse to talk about his own struggles, but the rest of the song trails off into more stunt raps - it's easy to forget that he even mentioned the struggle in the first place by the time the song is over. Song is also really repetitive, gets old really fast.

I personally don't hate Ross' lack of depth - I've said that Jeezy is the music to get ready for the playoffs, and that Ross makes the music during the championship parade. I don't necessarily need depth from Ross, but what he's doing definitely gets repetitive

I completely disagree with his take on Andre's verse on Sixteen, I think that was totally off-base.

But if you like your rap albums to be broken down by Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons then I'm sure he has some redeeming qualities..

 

[Ronnie Lott]

Sway doesn't listen to country. Fantano listens to rap. Stick to weightlifting.

Sway doesn't listen to country. Fantano listens to rap. Stick to weightlifting.

shut your old ass up man.

 

[mobbinfms]

I mentioned this exact point in what I just posted..My opinion isn't worthless.. But it's WORTH-LESS then a 65 year old Italian guy that was in the enviornment from which these screenwriters create a "good" mob film.. I'm not gonna be so arrogant that I'm gonna pretend I know more than he does..

Thats what these hipster reviewers do...I also honestly think music is so nuanced that you can't just be a general music reviewer (pop, metal, country, hip hop) You have to have specific experitize in a certain genre and a resume on how that expertize was formed..

It reminds me of these AM sports talk show hosts are jack of all trades but masters of none.. How you gonna be an expert on football, basketball, hockey, nascar, boxing AND soccer? Fukk outta here Thats how I view these "general music reviewers"...If I want to know about boxing then I go to Max Kellerman, if I wanna know MMA, I'll check Joe Rogan, if its basketball I'll look for Chad Lowe, if its hockey then I'll search out Barry Melrose...

You just can't say "I know sports" or " I know music" because chances are you are just a casual observer and are only scratching the surface...

Assuming the mob guy knows nothing about film, then his review would be limited strictly to issues of authenticity in how the mob world is presented in the film. He would serve the same function for a shytty mob movie as he would a classic one. He might think a shytty movie (for reasons of plot, acting and direction) is better than Godfather bc there were a few nuances in godfather that didn't ring true. That's why this whole idea that you must be a street dude to critique street music falls apart.

 

[WEKetchum]

Assuming the mob guy knows nothing about film, then his review would be limited strictly to issues of authenticity in how the mob world is presented in the film. He would serve the same function for a shytty mob movie as he would a classic one. He might think a shytty movie (for reasons of plot, acting and direction) is better than Godfather bc there were a few nuances in godfather that didn't ring true. That's why this whole idea that you must be a street dude to critique street music falls apart.

 

[Ronnie Lott]

bottom line is i hold no value on this dudes opinion of hip hop. he is in no position to tell me whats good or not. but some of yall can feel free to defend this nerds opinion

 

[blackslash]

19 pages??

ARguing whether this hipster ass cracka has the authority to review a rick ross album??

Maan if this site aint filled with whitewashed blacks

This man's opinions on rap should hold no weight

His critiques on hip hop should hold no weight

He is a surburban hipster cac whois completely disconnected experience wise, from this culture


And there are actual ppl tryna defend this cracka


Man u hipster ass cracka c00n nikkaz make me sick

 

[Ronnie Lott]

This is getting into that territory where you have to live a certain lifestyle to have a worthwhile opinion on music/movies. Do you agree that your opinion on a mafia movie is worthless?

my opinion on mafia movies is somewhat worthless compared to the people who actually grew up in that shyt.