Ron Harper: 1997 Bulls Would Sweep the Warriors

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

That's because the Warriors allowed him to put up shots at will. It was by design. He took 33 shots to get 36 points.

I can play the if game too - if the Warriors role players actually made their open shots at a decent clip all throughout the series, it would've gone five games at the most.

You give Mike 33 shots, he's going for 50.Guaranteed.

Bron's not the most mentally tough basketball player out there.

Mike's a whole different animal.

There's also a human element involved in this.It's easier to feel confident going up against an injured Cavs team with a fragile psyche Lebron.

Seeing Mike, Pip, and Rodman out there might have dudes like Klay, Barbosa, and Iguadala a lil shook.

And once Mike give lite bright Curry that fierce Shaka Zulu stare

The ball might start suddenly feeling a lil heavy.

 

[ghostwriterx]

That's because the Warriors allowed him to put up shots at will. It was by design. He took 33 shots to get 36 points.

I can play the if game too - if the Warriors role players actually made their open shots at a decent clip all throughout the series, it would've gone five games at the most.

You do realize Delly, JR and Shump all shot 30% or worse for the series right?
Nobody on the Warriors shot under 37% and Barnes and Iggy were both over 40% from 3.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Yeah but that would only have relevance if the Cavs were as good as the Bulls. You aren't suggesting that are you? .

What I'm suggesting is that it's irrational to work on what could've happened. You'd look at this Warriors team differently if your case was the other way around. The Warriors role players couldn't hit shyt in those first few games - you really can't translate that over to any other hypothetical series.

If you can come within a shot of going down 3-0 to that depleted, broke shooting ass squad, I don't see how its' a stretch to suggest that you would get swept by a squad that is better than that squad in every aspect of the game.

But see that's only telling half the story, like I said above, the Warriors role players had open shot after open shot in the Finals. Who's to say that if that series was re-run with the same players that those role players don't get hot right from the jump and dead that series before it's even begun? You'd have a point if it were a case of the Cavs from actively contesting and putting pressure on them, but the Cavs didn't.

Point is, with the change in rules and defending the best offensive scheme they've come up against, it's simply not reasonable to suggest the Bulls would sweep them. They're far too many factors that they would first need to work out on court before they could actually defend this Warriors team with any success. Not to mention how long would it take them to realize that trading 2-pt shots for 3-pts would more often than not lead to them losing?

At the very least there would be ONE game where the Warriors would get hot from behind the 3-pt line and the Bulls simply wouldn't be able to match the same production.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You do realize Delly, JR and Shump all shot 30% or worse for the series right?
Nobody on the Warriors shot under 37% and Barnes and Iggy were both over 40% from 3.

You do realize that I said "all throughout the series"? Meaning if they actually hit open shots in Games 2 and 3, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[FTBS]

What I'm suggesting is that it's irrational to work on what could've happened. You'd look at this Warriors team differently if your case was the other way around. The Warriors role players couldn't hit shyt in those first few games - you really can't translate that over to any other hypothetical series.

But see that's only telling half the story, like I said above, the Warriors role players had open shot after open shot in the Finals. Who's to say that if that series was re-run with the same players that those role players don't get hot right from the jump and dead that series before it's even begun? You'd have a point if it were a case of the Cavs from actively contesting and putting pressure on them, but the Cavs didn't.

Point is, with the change in rules and defending the best offensive scheme they've come up against, it's simply not reasonable to suggest the Bulls would sweep them. They're far too many factors that they would first need to work out on court before they could actually defend this Warriors team with any success. Not to mention how long would it take them to realize that trading 2-pt shots for 3-pts would more often than not lead to them losing?

At the very least there would be ONE game where the Warriors would get hot from behind the 3-pt line and the Bulls simply wouldn't be able to match the same production.

I look at it for what it is period. There is a reason the Warriors players struggled in shooting like they did, it wasn't just happenstance. The moment was too much for them and the Cavs did do a good job of slowing the game down and keeping them out of transition. The moment would be equally as big (if not bigger since we are violating the rules of time and space for this matchup ) against the Bulls (which is why I said what I said in the first post you quoted about this years Warriors putting up a better fight due to having that experience) and the Bulls were even better than the Cavs on defense, controlling the pace, and offensive execution. And since this is hypothetical who is to say we are playing by today's rules anyway?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I look at it for what it is period. There is a reason the Warriors players struggled in shooting like they did, it wasn't just happenstance. The moment was too much for them and the Cavs did do a good job of slowing the game down and keeping them out of transition.

And they learned from that, as does every team who wins their first title. Harper wasn't talking about that team (who were still trying to work through their first postseason run under Kerr/first Finals run) though - he's talking about them right now. A battle-tested, mentally-seasoned group of players who have been there and done that. Draymond right now is more likely to take those threes he past up in the Finals, as is every other Warriors player in situations they were hesitant in doing so.

The Warriors as a squad are now more prepared to deal with a similar defensive scheme, should they play one this season in the playoffs.

The moment would be equally as big (if not bigger since we are violating the rules of time and space for this matchup ) against the Bulls (which is why I said what I said in the first post you quoted about this years Warriors putting up a better fight due to having that experience) and the Bulls were even better than the Cavs on defense, controlling the pace, and offensive execution. And since this is hypothetical who is to say we are playing by today's rules anyway?

Exactly. I mentioned before the outcome of this matchup would be influenced by what rules they'd play under - quite possibly the difference between winning and losing the series.

 

[the kid]

Bruh, I can't wait til the Spurs dispatch of this Warriors team so this nonsense gets deaded. Spurs beat this team 2 outta 3 times last year. Kawhi owned them fools last year and has only gotten better.

 

[FTBS]

And they learned from that, as does every team who wins their first title. Harper wasn't talking about that team (who were still trying to work through their first postseason run under Kerr/first Finals run) though - he's talking about them right now. A battle-tested, mentally-seasoned group of players who have been there and done that. Draymond right now is more likely to take those threes he past up in the Finals, as is every other Warriors player in situations they were hesitant in doing so.

The Warriors as a squad are now more prepared to deal with a similar defensive scheme, should they play one this season in the playoffs.

Exactly. I mentioned before the outcome of this matchup would be influenced by what rules they'd play under - quite possibly the difference between winning and losing the series.

So why didn't you say that in the first place? You been going back and forth talking about last years team. I pointed to that difference between this year and last in the OG post you quoted.

The Bulls were better equipped to deal with today's rules than the Warriors are to deal with the 90s rules. Honestly though, if you can ball you can ball. The rules shouldn't have that much impact unless you are doing something drastic like taking 3s away or some shyt.

 

[Regular_P]

What I'm suggesting is that it's irrational to work on what could've happened. You'd look at this Warriors team differently if your case was the other way around. The Warriors role players couldn't hit shyt in those first few games - you really can't translate that over to any other hypothetical series.

But see that's only telling half the story, like I said above, the Warriors role players had open shot after open shot in the Finals. Who's to say that if that series was re-run with the same players that those role players don't get hot right from the jump and dead that series before it's even begun? You'd have a point if it were a case of the Cavs from actively contesting and putting pressure on them, but the Cavs didn't.

Point is, with the change in rules and defending the best offensive scheme they've come up against, it's simply not reasonable to suggest the Bulls would sweep them. They're far too many factors that they would first need to work out on court before they could actually defend this Warriors team with any success. Not to mention how long would it take them to realize that trading 2-pt shots for 3-pts would more often than not lead to them losing?

At the very least there would be ONE game where the Warriors would get hot from behind the 3-pt line and the Bulls simply wouldn't be able to match the same production.

Everyone ignores that aspect of last season's Finals. Curry had them playing 4-on-3 every game, but they were TIGHT. Once their shots finally started falling and they got their confidence back, GS handled Cleveland with ease. This year's Warriors team is not gonna have that problem and you can see it from how they've come out the gate.

@Jplaya2023 is in here trying to lock down #WPOY2015 off one thread.

 

[Regular_P]

Bruh, I can't wait til the Spurs dispatch of this Warriors team so this nonsense gets deaded. Spurs beat this team 2 outta 3 times last year. Kawhi owned them fools last year and has only gotten better.

San Antonio's starters do not match up with Golden State's. I think your boys are in for a rude awakening when they meet. The Spurs' bench is the unit that matches up.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

So why didn't you say that in the first place? You been going back and forth talking about last years team. I pointed to that difference between this year and last in the OG post you quoted.

Because it's a more appropriate sample size of teams and situations they played in, and I mean we can't really take what has happened in these first 10 games as backing against competition/teams the Bulls faced in 1997. Mentioning that they aren't the same team from last team, is focussing more on them from a mental aspect.

I quoted your post because of 'the Cavs could've gone up 3-0 in the series' comment more than anything else, and that his statement was ridiculous because he was talking about the Warriors squad as they currently stand (not last season's team).

The Bulls were better equipped to deal with today's rules than the Warriors are to deal with the 90s rules.

How could this possibly be since the only thing that's changed which would have any notable effect on either team, is zone defense? The Bulls would have to deal with 'illegal' defense, whereas the Warriors would have to deal with hand-checking........

Honestly though, if you can ball you can ball. The rules shouldn't have that much impact unless you are doing something drastic like taking 3s away or some shyt.

You're sadly mistaken if you think players digging down on typical weakside 1v1 situations (a large part of 90s play), helping off picks/breakdowns or running defenders across the lane wouldn't have an impact on the Bulls offense.

 

[FTBS]

Because it's a more appropriate sample size of teams and situations they played in, and I mean we can't really take what has happened in these first 10 games as backing against competition/teams the Bulls faced in 1997. Mentioning that they aren't the same team from last team, is focussing more on them from a mental aspect.

I quoted your post because of 'the Cavs could've gone up 3-0 in the series' comment more than anything else, and that his statement was ridiculous because he was talking about the Warriors squad as they currently stand (not last season's team).



How could this possibly be since the only thing that's changed which would have any notable effect on either team, is zone defense? The Bulls would have to deal with 'illegal' defense, whereas the Warriors would have to deal with hand-checking........



You're sadly mistaken if you think players digging down on typical weakside 1v1 situations or helping off picks/breakdowns wouldn't have an impact on the Bulls offense.

Because they had shooters and intelligent, versatile, and experienced players and an ATG coach ie things that beat zone defense. A finesse team is gonna have a harder time adjusting to more physical play than a smart, seasoned team is gonna have adjusting to a different defensive wrinkle. What do the Warriors have that combats physical defense AND excellent execution on the other end? You yourself have tried to use physicality as a plea for the Warriors lackluster start to the Finals.

 

[fifth column]

MJ is not better than Lebron.
TT and Rodman are not similar. Rodman is an elite defender who was undersize and could defend SF/PF while TT is a PF with great size who rebounds extremely well. I swear I hate MJ stans.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Because they had shooters and intelligent, versatile, and experienced players and an ATG coach ie things that beat zone defense.

No 90s team could adapt with a flick of a switch to a series setting during this current day. That includes the mid/late-90s Bulls squads. It would take time. Jordan wouldn't be used to having all those lanes cut off to the paint, he wouldn't be used to dealing with not having his patented strongside ISO play as the foundation to his production, the Bulls as a team wouldn't be used to going from trying to beat man-to-man defense to having players rotating and helping at every point on the floor.

A finesse team is gonna have a harder time adjusting to more physical play. What do the Warriors have that combats physical defense AND excellent execution on the other end?

Ball movement and player movement. Hand-checking wouldn't affect the Warriors offense because they don't work through ISO actions.

You yourself have tried to use physicality as a plea for the Warriors lackluster start to the Finals.

It was less about the physicality aspect, and more the type of defense in which the Cavs were playing. Swarming Curry and shutting down his options by leaving their matchup unguarded and staying within the closed points of the perimeter - defense which was illegal in the 90s.

 

[fifth column]

No 90s team could adapt with a flick of a switch to a series setting during this current day. That includes the mid/late-90s Bulls squads. It would take time. Jordan wouldn't be used to having all those lanes cut off to the paint, he wouldn't be used to dealing with not having his patented strongside ISO play as the foundation to his production, the Bulls as a team wouldn't be used to going from trying to beat man-to-man defense to having players rotating and helping at every point on the floor.

Ball movement and player movement. Hand-checking wouldn't affect the Warriors offense because they don't work through ISO actions.

It was less about the physicality aspect, and more the type of defense in which the Cavs were playing. Swarming Curry and shutting down his options by leaving their matchup unguarded and staying within the closed points of the perimeter - defense which was illegal in the 90s.

This romanticizing of the Warriors. The 97 Bulls would put them in a body bag. Steph is that dude right now but Nobody stoping Jeffery from dominating