Scientists Say A Terrifying Population Correction Is Coming Soon

Claudex

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This is an overly simplistic analysis.

Liveable space has never been the issue. It's management of systems within a liveable and logistically efficient space. Waste, environmental, pathogenic, social order, etc...

Most food that gets thrown away largely gets thrown away because it expires before it can be consumed. It can't be consumed by more needy people because the logistical, societal, and industrial systems aren't built up in large parts of the world to support the movement of food to those places. We can argue WHY those systems aren't in place, but it's not due in large part to misallocation of resources by the elite.

These arguments don't make any sense unless you're trying to throw a religious connotation over it, and if that's your argument then I guess we have nothing further to talk about. Corporations DON'T want to throw food out, they would love to find a market to sell unused stock even if it was at a STEEP discount, because it's a loss at that point (it doesn't totally get written off a tax write-off). I know this because I used to work in logistics and supply chain losses for one of the biggest food companies in the world.

Furthermore, capitalism is a system based on perpetual growth so it would be antithetical to purposely kill off large parts of the consumer base because then the system would collapse on itself. We see this happening in China where built too many houses and now the country is starting to experience deflation.

The world eventually can support more people, but we currently don't have the technology, infrastructure, or societal cohesion in place to support more people.
Don't worry breh, religion is not at all a part of my argument. Nor do I pretend to bring it into this. :mjlol:

I acquiesce your response to my rebuttal that it is an overly simplistic analysis. Which it most certainly is, however it is so precisely because I believe it is unethical to talk about overpopulation without providing clear data stating how, what can be AND in fact is produced does not match the 8+ billion we've got now. Until a study is done across all sectors regarding the basic needs of the populace showing no waste and maximum possible output, that statement cannot be ethically made.

You make a very fair point regarding logistics, and it doesn't take much to see how that can be a major thorn in allocation of resources. It isn't something I thought about when making my point, so thanks for the heads up! :obama:But breh...we're building spaceships to Mars, spending billions on production of goods available to only a few, instead of improving the technology, infrastructure, or societal cohesion for a better distribution of resources. Globally.

Amazon came through clutch in allocation of products between continents, but what products are marketed there? How do they make the life of the unfortunate better? Yet the existence of amazon is proof of the ability we have to make a sick ass logistics systems, worldwide.

As for your statement regarding capitalism...to me capitalism and communism both suffer from exactly the same phenomena that the second amendment suffers in the US. They do not account for human corruption and greed for more. And thus these concepts become corrupted, meaning real life capitalism is not about equitable growth, so the opposite of growth happens. My point is simple, when a businessman is faced with two options:

1. Destroying his products so as to not saturate the market and keep control of costumers.
2. Sacrificing time (and thus the business) to find a better solution for distribution and sales, running a high risk of having very very slow growth and poor returns.

He'll always choose option number one. I don't knock it, I'm not afraid to say that if I were a businessman I would 10/10 choose the first option too. Because a businessman does not operate unilaterally, he's got competitors that stand to gain (and kill his business, no mercy) by being more shrewd and getting loyalty and adulation of the clients to boot.

That's why the role of government is far more important than it appears to be if one were to take a look at the world. But competition prioritizes profits (results) more than efficiency at a societal level every time.
 

Complexion

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Gloxina

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I love how the "experts" and these articles always point the finger at the common individual. Our consumerism. Our fossil fuel use. How we have ravaged the environment. :ufdup:



But they never want to speak on social engineering and the people at the top with agendas. Nikka I didn't ask for them to tear down the rainforest to grow palm oil and the nikkas that buy palm oil probably didn't either.

Anything to keep the spotlight off of the truly greedy profiteers at the top who don't care about sustainability or even their customers, but only revenue.


Also, why can't the "experts" agree? Are we headed for a population collapse due to lack of reproduction? Or are we overpopulated?

OR are we just too populated with the kinds of people that the experts don't like? :patrice:

Cause that's what I gather. They need the cacs to get more action but they need the Indians to go.
Exactly! Consumerism was manufactured and fueled by the ones making a mint off of it!

We have a bunch of shyt we never would’ve desired if it wasn’t pumped in our faces.
 
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Vandelay

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Don't worry breh, religion is not at all a part of my argument. Nor do I pretend to bring it into this. :mjlol:

I acquiesce your response to my rebuttal that it is an overly simplistic analysis. Which it most certainly is, however it is so precisely because I believe it is unethical to talk about overpopulation without providing clear data stating how, what can be AND in fact is produced does not match the 8+ billion we've got now. Until a study is done across all sectors regarding the basic needs of the populace showing no waste and maximum possible output, that statement cannot be ethically made.

You make a very fair point regarding logistics, and it doesn't take much to see how that can be a major thorn in allocation of resources. It isn't something I thought about when making my point, so thanks for the heads up! :obama:But breh...we're building spaceships to Mars, spending billions on production of goods available to only a few, instead of improving the technology, infrastructure, or societal cohesion for a better distribution of resources. Globally.

Amazon came through clutch in allocation of products between continents, but what products are marketed there? How do they make the life of the unfortunate better? Yet the existence of amazon is proof of the ability we have to make a sick ass logistics systems, worldwide.

As for your statement regarding capitalism...to me capitalism and communism both suffer from exactly the same phenomena that the second amendment suffers in the US. They do not account for human corruption and greed for more. And thus these concepts become corrupted, meaning real life capitalism is not about equitable growth, so the opposite of growth happens. My point is simple, when a businessman is faced with two options:

1. Destroying his products so as to not saturate the market and keep control of costumers.
2. Sacrificing time (and thus the business) to find a better solution for distribution and sales, running a high risk of having very very slow growth and poor returns.

He'll always choose option number one. I don't knock it, I'm not afraid to say that if I were a businessman I would 10/10 choose the first option too. Because a businessman does not operate unilaterally, he's got competitors that stand to gain (and kill his business, no mercy) by being more shrewd and getting loyalty and adulation of the clients to boot.

That's why the role of government is far more important than it appears to be if one were to take a look at the world. But competition prioritizes profits (results) more than efficiency at a societal level every time.
Thanks for not making it a religious argument and having nuanced rebuttal. Yeah, it gets a bit tricky in that producing food, or any commodity out of charity does essentially destroy the market for it.

You could nationalize food production, but they may end up wasting more because consumer demand usually dictates what's produced. If it was nationalized the government would try to anticipate this and potentially end up wasting far more; this is usually the argument from more well-intentioned economists for why Marxism/communism doesn't work.

I don't have a really good answer for how you balance taking care of the population so no one goes hungry versus wasting far more resources than the existing system already provides other than to maybe subsidize the production or the transportation of it.
 

Claudex

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Thanks for not making it a religious argument and having nuanced rebuttal. Yeah, it gets a bit tricky in that producing food, or any commodity out of charity does essentially destroy the market for it.

You could nationalize food production, but they may end up wasting more because consumer demand usually dictates what's produced. If it was nationalized the government would try to anticipate this and potentially end up wasting far more; this is usually the argument from more well-intentioned economists for why Marxism/communism doesn't work.

I don't have a really good answer for how you balance taking care of the population so no one goes hungry versus wasting far more resources than the existing system already provides other than to maybe subsidize the production or the transportation of it.
That's you and me both breh. :wow:
This topic would have to be several books deep to be fully covered. There are so many factors!

But every time I see the average man complain about overpopulation it just irks me because I've never really seen a proper case made for it. Malthus came up with the theory back in 1798 and when he died the calculation for world population was at about 1 billion.

I'm not saying he was a complete idiot, and scarcity of resources do increase with an increase in population. I'm just not quite convinced we're at that point yet...moreover I believe we will most certainly reach a point where it will feel like overpopulation is the main issue (perhaps at 14+ billion) and we'll just ignore the issue of bad logistics and cause genocides when, if we tightened up ourselves as a species and curbed greed, maybe the world could work with up to 20 billion people.

I can 100% see a future (maybe year 3000) where humans look back and say, "they didn't need to take the measures they took back in 2200, but they were primitive so :manny: ".
 

Mowgli

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More like population can't be controlled by their respective empires si they have to shave people off to maintain control
 
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