Should Billionaires Exist?

MMS

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would you look at that @Rhakim

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down - Healthy Food House

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down

Fortnite is a game created by Tim Sweeney, and has become one of the biggest games of this decade. Its creator has been working for decades and managed to develop various interactive and intricate realms in the digital world for players.

In the 1990’s, he founded Epic Games, a video and 3-D software company, that produced various popular games, including Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and Fortnite. Tim soon became a billionaire, but this made him a bigger philanthropist, who tried his best to protect the beautiful western Carolina mountains.

In the last decade, he spent millions of dollars to support conservation projects in North Carolina, in order to save its forest. He bought 40,000 acres of land, and donated money to various conservation parcel projects, like an expansion of 1,500 acres to Mount Mitchell State Park.

In November 2016, he donated $15 million for a conservation project in order to protect 7,000 acres of the Box Creek Wilderness. This forest is located in the historic foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Being untouched, a large corporation wanted to carve up the land and use it to run power lines to other places. Additionally, Sweeney protected hundreds of endangered animal and plant species in the area by protecting it.

According to the biologist Kevin Caldwell:

“Ecologists documented more than 130 rare and watch-list plant and wildlife species, and several new-to‐science wildlife and plant species, including three moths and a new spiderwort species.”

Sweeney added:

“It’s one of the most diverse areas in North Carolina. It has such rare plant and wildlife species, it seemed a perfect fit with the Fish and Wildlife Service. This is a first step – there will be other places protected. The goal is to connect South Mountains State Park to Chimney Rock. This is one piece of the puzzle.”

Moreover, a year later, the man bought 193 acres in Alamance County for $1.973 million, and after securing the land, Jose Kellher, who is a representative of Sweeney, guaranteed that the land would not be developed. Last year, he bought a 1,500 acre place called Stone Hills, and protected it from being turned into a golf resort community.

Sweeney maintains:

“I bought this land because it has a nice longleaf pine forest and was available for a reasonable price. I’ll be holding it until I find a permanent nature conservation home for it, which will take years or decades.”

When he was asked about his short term plans for the land, he replied:

“I just plan to hike it and do some tree thinning and burning for ecosystem restoration until I find a permanent conservancy or state home for it.”

The Mind Unleashed wrote:

“Sweeney’s conservation efforts come at a time when protecting our nation’s forests has become increasingly important. A study led by North Carolina State University professor Nick Haddad and conducted by 24 scientists, found that there are only 2 truly intact forests left on Earth.

When the study’s authors examined the effects of human involvement on forests, they found habitat fragmentation leads to 13 to 75 percent decrease in plant and animal diversity, reduces the ability of animals and plants to survive and can even distort the food chain, as smaller patches of forest tend to have an increase in predator population.

Thankfully, as science continues to learn more about the importance of undeveloped forest land, billionaire philanthropists are noticing and taking action. China’s wealthiest man has also taken note of the importance of conservation. In 2015, Jack Ma, the billionaire behind online retail giant Alibaba, purchased 28,000 acres of land in the Adirondack mountains of upstate NY. His first action taken after purchasing the land was to halt logging operations.”

Let’s hope that actions of this kind will inspire other people who have the needed wealth, power, and influence, to do good, save the environment, and help the community.

Source: themindunleashed.com
 

MMS

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Why do some of you think it's evil to profit off of other human beings? :patrice:

IMO this is the fundamental difference. Cause resources gonna be used regardless, the only thing that can change that is a public change in sentiment about goods created from those resources.
 

EndDomination

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But is there a functioning example of an exploitation free economy demonstrating its compatibility with human nature?:ld:
There are far better sects within the economy with far-less exploitation; everything from Mondragon as it functions, to the short-lived an-comm settlements through the 19th and 20th centuries; and smaller group settlements throughout South America, Africa, and the Middle East.

You're well-aware of the mass-interference from Western nations and international organizations throughout these projects, revolts, and revolutions though.
 

EndDomination

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Why do some of you think it's evil to profit off of other human beings? :patrice:

IMO this is the fundamental difference. Cause resources gonna be used regardless, the only thing that can change that is a public change in sentiment about goods created from those resources.
Why don't you think it is?

There is no reason to exploit other human beings, at the expense of their personal autonomy.
 

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would you look at that @Rhakim

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down - Healthy Food House

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down

Fortnite is a game created by Tim Sweeney, and has become one of the biggest games of this decade. Its creator has been working for decades and managed to develop various interactive and intricate realms in the digital world for players.

In the 1990’s, he founded Epic Games, a video and 3-D software company, that produced various popular games, including Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and Fortnite. Tim soon became a billionaire, but this made him a bigger philanthropist, who tried his best to protect the beautiful western Carolina mountains.

In the last decade, he spent millions of dollars to support conservation projects in North Carolina, in order to save its forest. He bought 40,000 acres of land, and donated money to various conservation parcel projects, like an expansion of 1,500 acres to Mount Mitchell State Park.

In November 2016, he donated $15 million for a conservation project in order to protect 7,000 acres of the Box Creek Wilderness. This forest is located in the historic foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Being untouched, a large corporation wanted to carve up the land and use it to run power lines to other places. Additionally, Sweeney protected hundreds of endangered animal and plant species in the area by protecting it.

According to the biologist Kevin Caldwell:

“Ecologists documented more than 130 rare and watch-list plant and wildlife species, and several new-to‐science wildlife and plant species, including three moths and a new spiderwort species.”

Sweeney added:

“It’s one of the most diverse areas in North Carolina. It has such rare plant and wildlife species, it seemed a perfect fit with the Fish and Wildlife Service. This is a first step – there will be other places protected. The goal is to connect South Mountains State Park to Chimney Rock. This is one piece of the puzzle.”

Moreover, a year later, the man bought 193 acres in Alamance County for $1.973 million, and after securing the land, Jose Kellher, who is a representative of Sweeney, guaranteed that the land would not be developed. Last year, he bought a 1,500 acre place called Stone Hills, and protected it from being turned into a golf resort community.

Sweeney maintains:

“I bought this land because it has a nice longleaf pine forest and was available for a reasonable price. I’ll be holding it until I find a permanent nature conservation home for it, which will take years or decades.”

When he was asked about his short term plans for the land, he replied:

“I just plan to hike it and do some tree thinning and burning for ecosystem restoration until I find a permanent conservancy or state home for it.”

The Mind Unleashed wrote:

“Sweeney’s conservation efforts come at a time when protecting our nation’s forests has become increasingly important. A study led by North Carolina State University professor Nick Haddad and conducted by 24 scientists, found that there are only 2 truly intact forests left on Earth.

When the study’s authors examined the effects of human involvement on forests, they found habitat fragmentation leads to 13 to 75 percent decrease in plant and animal diversity, reduces the ability of animals and plants to survive and can even distort the food chain, as smaller patches of forest tend to have an increase in predator population.

Thankfully, as science continues to learn more about the importance of undeveloped forest land, billionaire philanthropists are noticing and taking action. China’s wealthiest man has also taken note of the importance of conservation. In 2015, Jack Ma, the billionaire behind online retail giant Alibaba, purchased 28,000 acres of land in the Adirondack mountains of upstate NY. His first action taken after purchasing the land was to halt logging operations.”

Let’s hope that actions of this kind will inspire other people who have the needed wealth, power, and influence, to do good, save the environment, and help the community.

Source: themindunleashed.com
The trees being cut down cheaply to sell to multi-national corporations that exploit water and human resources to sell an overpriced product worldwide while exacerbating global warming, deforestation, and issues with water systems? :unimpressed:
 

MMS

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Why don't you think it is?

There is no reason to exploit other human beings, at the expense of their personal autonomy.
look around you

you exploit life in general just to live

this is the way of nature :dahell:

all "economy" is is a way for people to get what they need without doing it all. People exchange something whether its currency/barter/services

its either that, or people simply taking it from each other and everyone should understand why that outcome is undesirable
 

DEAD7

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The number of people who actually engaged in the nasty shyt is a very small portion of the human species. The problem is that we have a global economic system that gives all the power to those people and all the incentives to trying to become like those people. The way the vast majority of members of the human species actually treat the majority of people they interact with (especially in relatively closed or smaller systems where the people in question know each other) shows that exploitation is not a required part of human nature.
I have a much more tragic view of mankind where we are all equally altruistic and exploitative... and believe it isn't the system but rather human nature that causes us to abdicate responsibility and power to others.
Capitalism in my opinion takes human nature and uses it to create wealth in the most efficient ways possible, and its our responsibility to see that this rising tide lifts all boats.


If there was a better system, it would be in place, and when one is developed we will use it.
 

DEAD7

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There are far better sects within the economy with far-less exploitation; everything from Mondragon as it functions, to the short-lived an-comm settlements through the 19th and 20th centuries; and smaller group settlements throughout South America, Africa, and the Middle East.

You're well-aware of the mass-interference from Western nations and international organizations throughout these projects, revolts, and revolutions though.
I don't follow, Are the examples you give what you would call acceptable levels of exploitation? :leostare:
Or are you trying to avoid admitting there's no empirical evidence supporting an exploitation free human economy?


In my experience socialist and progressives tend to fall into a trap where they are comparing the real world(capitalism) full of flesh and blood human beings against an idea in there head(socialism) made up of abstract people.
The real world never stacks up, and is always more exploitive, greedy, unfair, unjust, and evil than the idea in your mind.
 

Professor Emeritus

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would you look at that @Rhakim

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down - Healthy Food House

Fortnite Creator is Buying Entire Forests to Prevent Them From Being Chopped Down

Fortnite is a game created by Tim Sweeney, and has become one of the biggest games of this decade. Its creator has been working for decades and managed to develop various interactive and intricate realms in the digital world for players.

In the 1990’s, he founded Epic Games, a video and 3-D software company, that produced various popular games, including Gears of War, Unreal Tournament, and Fortnite. Tim soon became a billionaire, but this made him a bigger philanthropist, who tried his best to protect the beautiful western Carolina mountains.

In the last decade, he spent millions of dollars to support conservation projects in North Carolina, in order to save its forest. He bought 40,000 acres of land, and donated money to various conservation parcel projects, like an expansion of 1,500 acres to Mount Mitchell State Park.

In November 2016, he donated $15 million for a conservation project in order to protect 7,000 acres of the Box Creek Wilderness. This forest is located in the historic foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains.

Being untouched, a large corporation wanted to carve up the land and use it to run power lines to other places. Additionally, Sweeney protected hundreds of endangered animal and plant species in the area by protecting it.

According to the biologist Kevin Caldwell:

“Ecologists documented more than 130 rare and watch-list plant and wildlife species, and several new-to‐science wildlife and plant species, including three moths and a new spiderwort species.”

Sweeney added:

“It’s one of the most diverse areas in North Carolina. It has such rare plant and wildlife species, it seemed a perfect fit with the Fish and Wildlife Service. This is a first step – there will be other places protected. The goal is to connect South Mountains State Park to Chimney Rock. This is one piece of the puzzle.”

Moreover, a year later, the man bought 193 acres in Alamance County for $1.973 million, and after securing the land, Jose Kellher, who is a representative of Sweeney, guaranteed that the land would not be developed. Last year, he bought a 1,500 acre place called Stone Hills, and protected it from being turned into a golf resort community.

Sweeney maintains:

“I bought this land because it has a nice longleaf pine forest and was available for a reasonable price. I’ll be holding it until I find a permanent nature conservation home for it, which will take years or decades.”

When he was asked about his short term plans for the land, he replied:

“I just plan to hike it and do some tree thinning and burning for ecosystem restoration until I find a permanent conservancy or state home for it.”

The Mind Unleashed wrote:

“Sweeney’s conservation efforts come at a time when protecting our nation’s forests has become increasingly important. A study led by North Carolina State University professor Nick Haddad and conducted by 24 scientists, found that there are only 2 truly intact forests left on Earth.

When the study’s authors examined the effects of human involvement on forests, they found habitat fragmentation leads to 13 to 75 percent decrease in plant and animal diversity, reduces the ability of animals and plants to survive and can even distort the food chain, as smaller patches of forest tend to have an increase in predator population.

Thankfully, as science continues to learn more about the importance of undeveloped forest land, billionaire philanthropists are noticing and taking action. China’s wealthiest man has also taken note of the importance of conservation. In 2015, Jack Ma, the billionaire behind online retail giant Alibaba, purchased 28,000 acres of land in the Adirondack mountains of upstate NY. His first action taken after purchasing the land was to halt logging operations.”

Let’s hope that actions of this kind will inspire other people who have the needed wealth, power, and influence, to do good, save the environment, and help the community.

Source: themindunleashed.com
Those are conservation easements - land that was already under certain status and only required a government easement in order to make conservation status permanent. That's not the same situation as when you're competing directly with a multinational for desirable land they wish to heavily exploit.

And even then, look at the numbers involved. One of those is $2 million for just 200 acres of land? You realize how unsustainable that is on any significant level? It doesn't scale for shyt and that's even with getting a NICE deal on an easement.

It's like you pointing out some rich fool buying turkey dinners on Thanksgiving as evidence that random acts of charity will solve world hunger. That shyt is NOTHING on a global scale, and can't be due to the natural economic restraints I already pointed out to you.




I have a much more tragic view of mankind where we are all equally altruistic and exploitative... and believe it isn't the system but rather human nature that causes us to abdicate responsibility and power to others.
Capitalism in my opinion takes human nature and uses it to create wealth in the most efficient ways possible, and its our responsibility to see that this rising tide lifts all boats.

If there was a better system, it would be in place, and when one is developed we will use it.
Most efficient by what measure? Better for who?

Our current systems are in place because the power holders and wealthy desire for them to be in place, and the purpose is natural to maintain the most power and wealth in the hands of such people. That seems so obvious to me that it shouldn't need to be said.

Our systems are not designed to preserve our environment most efficiently. They are not designed to help the poor most efficiently. They're not designed to provide the best future for our children. They're not designed to maximize human potential. Those have NEVER been the goals of the economic system, because the people who prioritize such things have never had final decision-making power over the systems.
 

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first ask yourself this question. Why do we speak about the government as if it's some AI or Robot or some being outside of us? Why do we talk about the government as if the government isnt a bunch of Us' in suits and pants suits? As if we dont Vote for a bunch of suits to write up bills, pass bills on our behalf?

People say but corporations and rich people control everything. only because You keep voting for the same idiots they put in your face.

Which one of you idiots are pushing bloomberg up in the polls? There isnt enough rich people to pull that off. He can buy all the ads in the world. And any pollster that asks me "how do you feel about bloomberg" would get the same answer from me every time. "Who...that rich clown trying to buy the election. Mr stop and frisk? tell that clown to get out of the race."

Which one of you are voting for crazy a... biden?

Thats your own fault,

Which one of you idiots voted for trump?

Thats your own fault


What group of idiots keeps voting in mitch mcconnell?

on and on and on.

You keep doing this to yourselves. So we will keep getting the same result.

So knowing the above ask the question again. i'll do it for you.
In what world will the american voter become savvy enough to vote for his/her own interest?


You vote for a bunch of Squad members and Bernies as presidents and congress people and you will get whatever tax laws you think is ethically correct. If you keep voting for do the corporate dance dems and corporate loving repubs. you will keep getting a lack of tax laws for the corporations and the ultra rich. its not rocket science. you dont need Neil de Grasse Tyson to help you on this one.
Just do a few simple google searches and watch about 5 to 10 20 min youtube shows. and you will know everything you need to know about every single candidate in every single race. there is no excuse anymore. we have the internet. its easy now. CHOOSE wisely or dont.


You are right but you underestimate how ideas are inserted into a national spectrum then re-enforced as a belief

All you have to do is tie into and amplify a loose emotion - then offer relief through your solution/candidate

It works with advertising consumer products very very very very well.

This stuff is calculated and tested and funded over time and both sides indulge in it.
 
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Cynic

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Assuming that the population and its annual production remain exactly the same during that next year, what do you think had to happen? Remember, that 11th round was never created. Therefore, bottom line, one of each 11 families will have to lose all its rounds, even if everybody managed their affairs well, in order to provide the 11th round to 10 others.
and what if there is population growth and increased productivity ?

With a few unfortunate exceptions, the system worked fine for a while. The villagers grew their flocks fast enough to obtain the additional rounds they needed to pay back the man in the hat. Some, for whatever reason-ill fortune or ineptitude-did indeed go bankrupt, and their more fortunate, more efficient neighbors took over their farms and hired them as labor. Overall, though, the flocks grew at 10 percent a year along with the money supply. The village and its flocks had grown so large that the man in the hat was joined by many others like him, all busily cutting out new rounds and issuing them to anyone with a good plan to breed more chickens.

From time to time, problems arose. For one, it became apparent that no one really needed all those chickens. “We’re getting sick of eggs,” the children complained. “Every room in the house has a feather bed now,” complained the housewives. In order to keep consumption of chicken products growing, the villagers invented all kinds of devices. It became fashionable to buy a new feather mattress every month, and bigger houses to keep them in, and to have yards and yards full of chickens. Disputes arose with other villages that were settled with huge egg-throwing battles. “We must create demand for more chickens!” shouted the mayor, who was the brother-in-law of the man in the hat. “That way we will all continue to grow rich.”

What happened to all the goods they exchanged for chicken prior to the banker ?

Everyone converted into a chicken farmer ? The banker didn't assign value to cattle
because he's a poultry loyalist ?

This story is chock full of holes ... :laff:
 
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DEAD7

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Our current systems are in place because the power holders and wealthy desire for them to be in place, and the purpose is natural to maintain the most power and wealth in the hands of such people. That seems so obvious to me that it shouldn't need to be said.
The systems in place are in place because they are the systems that have produced the best results. Many systems have been tried yet here we are with every nation practicing or drifting towards some form of capitalism. I don't think its a conspiracy by "the rich"... but rather the system that simply offers the best tradeoffs.

Our systems are not designed to preserve our environment most efficiently. They are not designed to help the poor most efficiently. They're not designed to provide the best future for our children. They're not designed to maximize human potential. Those have NEVER been the goals of the economic system, because the people who prioritize such things have never had final decision-making power over the systems.
Sounds like you have a beef with human nature...
We are greedy and short sighted... and free of coercion we will democratically elect someone promising us riches over someone promising us environmental protections.
This isn't because of the system or some illuminati.


Most efficient by what measure? Better for who?
monetary cost/monetary gain.
Better for everyone If a taxation/redistribution system is in place.
 
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