Should Rick Carlisle have been on that Top 15 GOAT Coaches list?

Art Barr

Art Barr

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LV Koopa said:
Yea you crazy. Spo might have a top 3 resume of All Time. Won with stars and with bums. Did it with treadmill teams and injured stars. No one outside Don Nelson and Larry Brown can even argue they've taken so many random rosters far into the playoffs multiple times.
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Spo = Riley avatar tho.

Where it is obvious.
Spo is parroting riley

Maybe in the future.
if spo leaves miami and recreates Championship to final round success. Yet spo is riley's avatar.
Nellie weak ass hell.
living off the coaching decision of russell as a player coach.

Plus this list cap.

As bill russell not on there.

Art Barr
 
JesusFOREVER

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Gil Scott-Heroin said:
Because of this -

None of that is because of Spo.

Pat worked that into the fabric of all the coaching personnel (trainers, scouts, development cadre etc) over the years. Teams don't have someone that maniacal and driven to establish something like that (let alone keep it going). Head coaches aren't scouting and developing players like that, sure, they have some part in it, but it's largely an inconsequential one.

What the Heat have acheived over the last 15+ years has been something much bigger than Spo. It extends way past him. That doesn't mean to say he isn't a good coach, but it's hard to judge exactly how much of that is his own doing and what is everything else around him.
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Why use Pat “sparing” Spoelstra from LeBron as some sort of indictment? We all know LeBron hates being coached and if anything it shows that Pat knew he was going to be great- he fired Van Gundy with no hesitation

You also said Spo came in with a silver spoon in his mouth but he inherited a pretty bad Heat team that was still recovering from overloading on old guys for that finals run and having no real young talent- Beasley was not a fit for “Heat Culture” (which Pat somehow didn’t recognize) and Wade’s injuries and lack of help made them a middling team- LeBron refused to buy into his system which resulted in the Heatles underachieving and still he was able to get 2 chips off Bron Ball which is a feat within itself

2 composed g league rosters to the NBA finals- rebuilt the Heat rather quickly after LeBron left but Bosh succumbed to blood clots- what golden spoon exactly? You wouldn’t say this for your boy Kerr so I’m suspecting you have legit bias against Spo because you rarely have anything good to say about him
 
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JesusFOREVER said:
Why use Pat “sparing” Spoelstra from LeBron as some sort of indictment? We all know LeBron hates being coached and if anything it shows that Pat knew he was going to be great- he fired Van Gundy with no hesitation

You also said Spo came in with a silver spoon in his mouth but he inherited a pretty bad Heat team that was still recovering from overloading on old guys for that finals run and having no real young talent- Beasley was not a fit for “Heat Culture” (which Pat somehow didn’t recognize) and Wade’s injuries and lack of help made them a middling team- LeBron refused to buy into his system which resulted in the Heatles underachieving and still he was able to get 2 chips off Bron Ball which is a feat within itself

2 composed g league rosters to the NBA finals- rebuilt the Heat rather quickly after LeBron left but Bosh succumbed to blood clots- what golden spoon exactly? You wouldn’t say this for your boy Kerr so I’m suspecting you have legit bias against Spo because you rarely have anything good to say about him
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:salute: Cook that casual

That man walked into a 50-win team, but Spo is the one with the "silver spoon"

Then again, if Spo had Kerr's complexion, he'd be slobbering all over him too
 
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Gil Scott-Heroin

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JesusFOREVER said:
Why use Pat “sparing” Spoelstra from LeBron as some sort of indictment? We all know LeBron hates being coached and if anything it shows that Pat knew he was going to be great- he fired Van Gundy with no hesitation
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Less of an indictment and more a reflection of Spo being in an advantageous position where he had someone who wouldn't be strong-armed by Bron. We've seen it play out recently in similar fashion with Jimmy, where Pat wouldn't concede to a player. It wouldn't have mattered what Pat thought of Spo back then, he wouldn't have fired him to appease Bron.

If Pat wasn't in that position, the person in his place would've likely conceded to Bron and Spo would've been gone (regardless if he deserved to keep his job or not).
JesusFOREVER said:
You also said Spo came in with a silver spoon in his mouth but he inherited a pretty bad Heat team that was still recovering from overloading on old guys for that finals run and having no real young talent
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Look at all the players Miami have managed to scout and develop and you tell me that isn't someone who hasn't been fed with a silver spoon. The Heat Culture isn't something that Spo created - he was birthed into it.
JesusFOREVER said:
LeBron refused to buy into his system which resulted in the Heatles underachieving and still he was able to get 2 chips off Bron Ball which is a feat within itself
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I find it hilarious how you think I'm biased against Spo, when here you are trying to attribute those two chips to Spo as if he had to win in spite of arguably the greatest player at the peak of his powers. You really out here trying to claim it was a "feat within itself" to win with that version of Bron, who did everything and anything to carry Miami to those titles in 2012 and 2013.

Who knew all along Spo was being held back by Bron all those years.

:wow:
 
JesusFOREVER

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Gil Scott-Heroin said:
Less of an indictment and more a reflection of Spo being in an advantageous position where he had someone who wouldn't be strong-armed by Bron. We've seen it play out recently in similar fashion with Jimmy, where Pat wouldn't concede to a player. It wouldn't have mattered what Pat thought of Spo back then, he wouldn't have fired him to appease Bron.

If Pat wasn't in that position, the person in his place would've likely conceded to Bron and Spo would've been gone (regardless if he deserved to keep his job or not).

Look at all the players Miami have managed to scout and develop and you tell me that isn't someone who hasn't been fed with a silver spoon. The Heat Culture isn't something that Spo created - he was birthed into it.

I find it hilarious how you think I'm biased against Spo, when here you are trying to attribute those two chips to Spo as if he had to win in spite of arguably the greatest player at the peak of his powers. You really out here trying to claim it was a "feat within itself" to win with that version of Bron, who did everything and anything to carry Miami to those titles in 2012 and 2013.

Who knew all along Spo was being held back by Bron all those years.

:wow:
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I mean let’s be honest- Pat Riley is grossly overrated as a GM- he relies on cheap or old and desperate signings supercharged by a great coach and elite superstar player- not bad- but he’s not some grand architect- the majority of the players he drafts or sign flame out of the league quickly once they leave Miami- the development end is all Spo- he brings the best out of players with his system- man had a PG rotation of Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole and went to 4 straight Finals- Chris Andersen Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony were the froncourt assistance for Bosh- they had Shane Battier playing the 4- you can say Pat’s strict regime sets the foundation but it literally means nothing without Spo- you either have it or you don’t-

And come on now you of all people know Bron is a gross underachiever who gets in his own way cause he refuses to operate in a real team system :mjlol:- having peak LeBron is a plus due to his raw talent but you’re constantly going to be taken to the limit against teams you shouldn’t due to the inherently selfish nature of his play

If you wanna say Spo is overrated- fine- but giving all the credit to Pat is wild because he’s just as overrated if not more as a GM than Spo is as a coach- just look at that 2023 roster and tell me who deserves more credit
 
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