Since this is probably Kobe's last season playing, I guess it's time to admit

[A.Boyd]

I don't really care about Kobe/Lebron debates in 2015. I just found it hilarious that the guy added Shaqs age but totally ignored the guys in Kobe's list.

I didn't include the rest of those players because it was my choice.

I know you don't actually believe Lebron playing with young, poor players is better than Kobe playing with over-the-hill veterans, many with NBA Finals and championship experience.

Do you?

 

[A.Boyd]

Lmao, 97-05 Kobe had better teammates than Lebron? Can you think of maybe why that might have been? Think hard.

Enlighten me.

As I previously stated, I'm not comparing Lebron's gm skills to the legendary Mitch Kupchak's skills, because that's not fair.

 

[KOBE]

I'm glad you disagree with my analysis, but the blatant disrespect expressed near the end of your post is ignorant, and presents one who lacks the ability to make a point without belittling others' perspectives.

In other words, grow up.

Now, take a look the teammate history of both these players again.
Disregard the obvious advantage in skill level Kobe's mates had; what stands out?

You got it, the very thing most posters cite as the reason Kobe is better: championships.

Kobe played with more champions, period.
That means he had better teammates. Period.
And don't try to skirt around the fact that LeBron has never played with another player that was clearly better than him, ever.
That means Kobe had better teammates.
Can you follow this logic? Or nah?

let me ask you question, is kobe bryant right now one of the best teammates in the league because he's a CHAMPION? he's just 37 and washed like the guys you were bringing up, but MAN he's a CHAMPION.

 

[A.Boyd]

So even if LeBron doesn't win another ring you think he's better than Kobe?

Nah.... LeBron definitely needs to win a ring in Cleveland before you can put him ahead of Kobe

I what you're saying, but are we to overlook all the stats that Lebron clearly outrank Kobe in?

Scoring output?
Rebounding?
Better, more versatile defender?

Do these things not mean anything?
You do realize these numbers hold up in the playoffs also, right?

 

[A.Boyd]

let me ask you question, is kobe bryant right now one of the best teammates in the league because he's a CHAMPION? he's just 37 and washed like the guys you were bringing up, but MAN he's a CHAMPION.

You don't think Kobe at 37 is better teammate than say, Ricky Rubio?

 

[A.Boyd]

I've never believed that team accomplishments are a reliable measure of individual greatness.

How often is the best player on the championship team actually thought of as the best player in the league that year? It aligns sometimes, but even then its not necessarily a cause/effect relationship.

Absolutely agree; just

Realistically unless LeBron wins more titles he'll stay behind kobe. Same reason Bird is permanently behind Magic.

I would argue that Magic indeed was better than Bird, but not because of the number of championships.

If I calculate two points for every assist, then add it to points per game, over the course of a career, here's how basic stats those two breakdown:

Points responsible for - 43/37
Rebounds - 7/10
Steals - 1.9/1.7
FG % - 52/50
3 pt % - 30/37.6

The first set of numbers is Magic, and the second is Bird.

We can see one was a superior shooter, but the other still produced more points while on the court.

 

[A.Boyd]

Thought this was a thread acknowledging Tim Duncan as the quintessential player of his era but hey...you got to start somewhere and acknowledging that Lebron is better than Kobe is a start...

I don't get how Duncan is the quintessential player when he wasn't as dominant as Shaq and he was no where near as popular as Shaq off the court.

Duncan didn't even have a shoe worth copping.

Looking at career averages, Duncan and Shaq have near identical stats in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. And I do mean nearly identical.

But, Shaq was more efficient, 58% fg. to Duncan's 50% shooting, and Shaq was more productive, 23.7 ppg to 19.4.

So aside from Duncan's 5x championships to Shaq's 4x, how is he better, or more representative of an era than Shaq?

 

[A.Boyd]

"5>2" isn't a crazy argument its a fact, and "Shaq" can be countered wit "Wade & Bosh"LeBron had to go to Miami to win and Kobe won without Shaq but LeBron hasn't won without Wade & Bosh. And@ doesn't have more rings because he's better at basketball, this is the dumbest post I ever seen on this subject.

I agree 5 is greater than 2, but Shaq cannot be countered with Bosh and Wade because that's TWO players.

Or do you not understand 2 is greater than 1?

I could argue Pau and Odom is equal to Bosh and Wade, but you'll probably act like you don't understand that.

As far as rings go, I believe Chamberlain was more dominant and a better player than Russell despite Russell having more championships due to having better teammates.

But your simpleton behind probably can't comprehend that concept, huh m

 

[A.Boyd]

Hold this neg

1. Kobe winnin 2 without Shaq > LeBron not winnin without Wade/Bosh
2. LeBron doesn't shoot score or win better than Kobe and you can't disprove that

1. LeBron has had literally 1 season to win post-Bosh/Wade, and even then he helped carry a battered team to the Finals.
Please use context.

2. LeBron for his career shoots a better percentage from 3, inside the line, and averages more points, how is Kobe a better shooter or scorer?
Please don't compare shooting form.

 

[A.Boyd]

You the one takin Ls

1. Again Kobe won without Shaq, LeBron hasn't won without Wade/Bosh so your argument is invalid
2. Everyone knows Kobe's a better shooter LeBron still doesn't have a consistent jumpshot, compare LeBron's highest scorin game to Kobe's 81 then come back to me
3. Greats like Jordan and Kobe lead their teams to wins, fans of inferior players make excuses

2. This is the type of statement Kobe stans pull out their ass, but it's been proven in this thread several times that Kobe does NOT shoot better than LeBron. It may look better, but it doesn't go in more, understand?

 

[Primetime21]

1. I didn't compare the two; I was stating facts.

But it does seem as though people around here don't understand the Lakers' championships have more to do with ALL the players and, at the time, one of the best run front offices.

2. How many championships do Rodman, Harper, and Grant have combined?

Would you agree that Eddie Jones was better than Kobe when they played together?
LeBron has not had the pleasure to past with a single player better than him.

Kobe has played with multiple players at different positions during different seasons; it wasn't just Shaq.

Wade was the best player on the team in the 2011 finals.

 

[Stack Money]

@Consumed

Stop the spinnin anyone on here would clown you for writin multiple novels to cape for another man you don't even know thats the epitome of what a stan woulde do, you beyond obsessed wit bytchin at me about this cause YOU'RE butthurt thats why you keep respondin wit novels everyday cause you can't let it go that I won't co-sign your LeBron love and made you catch massive feelins by tellin you the truth about your boy. You ain't givin no logic your posts are just bytchfests especially this one which I knew would happen, I intentionally put venom in my post cause you an annoyin fukk boy so I insult people like you as much as I can cause I know it will make you get in your feelins again and just like I predicted here you are wit your emotions. Look at you cryin like a bytch again cause I hurt your little sissified feelins :triplehusad:"WAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Those mean words you said to me were too venomous WAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! I was just trying to drag you into a debate so I could show you my LeBron slurppin skills no need to be mean.", get over it cac cause the more bytchmade you behave the more I'm gonna call you out on it. I called YOU an autistic fukk cause its what you are your homotional reaction to it just proves I was right, you autistic which explains why you obsessed wit numbers and have to respond to a simple paragraph wit a essay and can't stop postin dissertations in here. I'm gonna continue to hit YOU wit even more u mad memes cause you genuinely furious over this, and I copy & paste the bullshyt you say and apply it to you cause like I told you I ain't puttin as much time and effort as you are into my responses but also cause you're such a hypocrite most of the things you say about me and Kobe apply to you and LeBron.

Alot of people came to agree wit the shyt Skip said about LeBron thruout the years cause even tho they were fans and stans they had common sense and couldn't ignore the truth, LeBron's failures and him runnin to Miami immediately disqualified him in most people's eyes as bein on Jordan's level. And many even said it disqualified him from bein on Kobe's level cause Kobe has that old school mentality that Jordan had bein clutch stayin wit one team wantin to play against the best not join up wit them and wantin to be the guy Kobe rather let Shaq leave than let him be the guy, LeBron meanwhile went to Wade's team where he was clearly the guy desperate to finally get a ring and then crawled back to Cleveland when he thought Wade was done and couldn't carry him anymore. He saw the Cavs had a slew of young talent that he figured he could jump on their bandwagon have the young guys put in work in the regular season while he was on "Chill Mode", then show up for playoffs pad his stats get the ring and glory for bringin the first championship to Cleveland since forever and have stans like you say he did it "by himself".

And I say "most people" and "everyone says" cause it shows many agree wit me there's a reason why that many people say it just like errbody says Jordan the GOAT cause its true if most people are sayin one thing while you're in the minority chances are you're wrong, you cryin about me pointin those people out cause you can't argue against it so you'd rather attempt to deflect like you're doin now wit your feeble attempt at insultin my fandom. The fact you importin disses from other losers in here shows your desperation Patriots been my team since the 90s and I was born into Laker Nation my fam all fukk wit them and they not a popular bandwagon now they one of the worst teams but I'm still ridin wit them, the popular bandwagon is LeBron and you ridin shotgun on that shyt if anyone is a stan here its definitely YOU. That arrogant corny follower insult is the talk of a loser who's in the minority opinion and stupidly ASSumes (just like the way you ASSumed the reasons why I'm a Pats/Lakers fan) that everyone wit a different opinion than you is just sayin it cause its popular, nah dikkhead it became popular cause its true you fail to realize they did form an opinion on their own but there's only one reasonin you used "your own reasonin" which is code for I'm gonna ignore facts and just say my guy is the best cause you don't like the reality so you convinced your little autistic mind that LeBron is the best thru your faulty stan "reasonin".

You took certain moments from certain games and not the totality of the postseason games, I see you preemptively tried to discredit everyone elses opinions cause they don't fit your narrative. Accordin to you "most others" are irrelevant and the no life cock slobbin LeBron stan is the only one who's opinion matters, no wonder you state your opinions as fact in your autistic mind they really are facts. Now you're tryna post like me usin insults that I'd use, pathetic and once again hypocritical the only one wit a faulty memory laced wit a high concentration of stannery is the cac who is goin above and beyond to defend LeBron I mean after all it was you who responded to a paragraph I wrote wit a long form essay and started typin novels so long they couldn't even fit in one post.

bytch it takes alot less time to respond to your post than it does to look up stats and videos just to prove somethin to a worthless loser like you, if you that curious look for it yourself or don't believe it and just shut the fukk up I don't care.YOU the one who keeps bringin that graphic up cause you tight that it destroyed your argument discreditin Kobe, it was run on the NBA On NBC durin a West playoff game it wasn't convenient the finals didn't happen yet you autistic fukk I know you slow but try to keep up kid. The Manning analogy is fittin and once again you offer no rebuttals yourself other than to state your opinion as a fact, your problem is you are butthurt about so many people disagreein wit you and you usin me as a stand in for all those people to bytch at them cause it bothers you so much that most people don't think like you. Get over it cause most people disagree wit youManning has a poor playoff record choked had bad games and flat out didn't get it done LBJ has a poor Finals record choked had bad games and flat out didn't get it done, you right the analogy isn't fittin cause at least Manning's bad records were in the playoffs he only choked on the big stage once.Now you so upset you tryna recycle my insult to you about LeBron's dikk bein up your ass, you know you a lame when you gotta use the same insult I just used it doesn't have the same impact and shows how unoriginal corny and butthurt you really are. Besides pullin illogical nonsensical form of reasonin out of your ass is what YOU do best so Ima let you handle that.

There goes that hypocrisy again it's laughable everytime you call me a stan cause you the one thats LeBron's #1 nut defender on here, you've gone harder than I've ever seen to cape for another man shyts disgustin. Maybe you haven't paid attention to Kobe's greatness cause you been to busy stannin LeBron, stop tryna spin shyt and make excuses get his crusted cum out of your eyes and see LBJ had plenty of help he won in the regular season wit them so he could've won in the postseason wit him period. LeBron Kyrie and Love played like shyt most of the time they were together and plenty of your fellow stans said they were better off without Love, so if he had them they prolly woulda lost sooner and then yall would be cryin he needs help even tho he has help he just doesn't know how to play wit other stars.

Kobe > Shaq on D he could lock down players and was winnin First and Second All Defense from 00-12 missin only one year he was First Team All Defense 9 times and Second Team All Defense 3 times, Kobe was the best defender on 2 different elite defenses durin his championship runs you can get that rim protector bullshyt outta here defense is about more than blockin shots.

Bosh wasn't gettin punked every game, I'm gonna stop talkin bout this wit you cause you wasn't watchin them Laker games like I was to see Gasoft in action. The fact you think Dwight's not soft cause he's "a physical beast" lets me further know you a white boy which explains why you have no idea what soft means and is ironic since you soft yourself, it has nothin to do wit your size aside from how you use it but its about heart and bein mentally/emotionally tough Dwight (like you) is none of those things which is why he shrank when the lights got brightest and all Laker Nation called him soft the year he was here even Kobe called him soft Shaq basically did too. Wade provided help in 13 even playin hurt he was still better than most so that destroys YOUR point about LBJ doin it without Wade, replace Wade wit someone else and Bron doesn't get his second ring.

Shaq was still better than most, your "data" was made up numbers THOSE numbers definitely lie the official REAL numbers don't lie. Numbers lie when YOU want them to like when you started cryin about that graphic, there's no such thing as a reputable blogging site cause that shyt is still a blog site no one takes information from blogs seriously thats your problem you listenin to random fellow autistic losers in corners of cyberspace and puttin weight into made up stats you basically a chatty patty.Whats not only naive but an obvious attempt to shield yourself from literally everythin that screams Kobe > LBJ is you actually thinkin anyone has ever heard of that blog you talkin like they TMZ or somethin, yeah they prolly have a few "fans" on there but there's a ton of blogs wit WAY more people that visit them so that random blog you desperately scrambled for holds no weight. I'm not readin your little article that you prolly wrote yourself, you actin like you really think you can convince me that LeBron's better and had less help like give it up cac its never gonna happen.

1) More autistic stats I'm still not gonna bother readin, Kobe was winnin All D First team most of his career so clearly he had that type of influence defensively in multiple seasons. There you go tryna steal one of the things I said again, you the one that been ignorin shyt this whole time cause it doesn't fit YOUR narrative.

You ASSumin shyt again this is basketball it depends on what was happenin in the game thats why your stats are actually incomplete cause they don't tell the whole story of the game, you just admitted the Bucks had a terrible defense provin my argument for me obviously if AI the superstar couldn't go berzerk against them it was cause of him havin a bad game.

I was talkin about AI in 01 dikkhead HE stepped it up when the title was in sight, Kobe's not the only one who had better Finals performances than your man LeBron its a ton of players on that list. Look at you usin a white boy word I'm not tryna distract you from shyt I'm just callin it like I see it, your attempt to not get distracted is failin pretty hard right now cause you an emotional little bytch which we already know. YOUR post is the one thats all over the place you talkin bout everyone from Gasol Odom and Robinson to cats like Haslem you even brought Bill Russell up, I'm gonna reference "a lot of people" much more so get over it fukkboy I could point out the same words you continue to use but like I said unlike you I don't break down your long ass posts word for word.

 

[Stack Money]

@Consumed

No I just don't need to I don't answer to fakkit cacs like you bytch you have the audacity to tell a nikka to prove some shyt to your punk ass, fukk outta here if you weren't such a moron I'd actually put some effort into these replies but I'm just trollin you at this point cause this is a futile argument. YOU'RE incapable of explainin anythin without referencin "advanced stats" or some shytty blog that evidently dikkrides LeBron.

2) I'm not matchin your post length in replies your post is so long that any reply to your bullshyt will end up bein long itself, another hypocritical statement you the biggest stan I ever seen you the last one that should be talkin about bein blinded by bias and standom the whole reason you so enraged by me refusin to co-sign your LeBron suckfest is cause you too blinded by bias and standom to see that LeBron is inferior. Duncan don't have a strong argument over Kobe cause Kobe has 2 way dominance too and he has 5 lead dog rings, meanwhile Duncan hasn't been the best player on his team since last decade he's currently the 4th best on the Spurs. I was talkin back then Kobe would have less lift on his legs for those jumpshots in the 4th if he was chasin around guys like AI all game than he would in the 1st when he's rested up and hasn't started usin all his energy on D yet.

3) Shaq wasn't literally carryin defenders on his back while dunkin and doin jump hooks like you hypin it up as bein, those hacks were slaps yeah a slap from a big man is gonna be much harder but Shaq was an even bigger man so it canceled out. Shaq rotatin and all that nonsense ain't tougher than chasin a speedy guy around the court and tryna get away from him on offense where you either takin jumpshots or goin into the teeth of the D yourself so it was more physically demandin for Kobe. And you're back to statin your autistic opinion as fact, Hakeem is not better than Kobe but thats a better argument than this LeBron bullshyt.

4) Nothin changes what I said Kobe had way more assists that postseason, Kobe does better in closesout games than LeBron but you picked pieces of stats to make LeBron look better and of course you wouldn't pay attention to that performance cause it destroys your narrative that Kobe didn't play that well in the Finals and can't get rebounds.

Won't even bother readin thru your borin autistic chart, like I said I wouldn't trust you if you told me LeBron was black cause you have no credibility on this subject. No it's not a fact that they were better finishers than Kobe he belongs in the same category as them cause he did the same things they did, thats why you so bothered that people don't look at those made up stats and half stats and instead go based on the eye test real stats and highlight videos cause you want to create the myth that Kobe couldn't dominate at the basket even tho we used to always see him doin just that. So you wanna be able to throw out a sheet full of numbers like a nerd and say accordin to these figures LBJ the goatand have everyone agree, but it will never happen cause everyone knows what they saw and what they saw was Kobe bein on MJ level as the greatest since and LeBron not bein close to MJ.

Shut your emotional ass up bytch you gettin all butthurt cause I pointed out Kobe took difficult shots everyone used to say that and criticize him for it cause they weren't high percentage shots but he would make them anyway, didn't matter if he was drivin in the lane and avoidin blocks or takin tough contested 3s at bad angles he would make them and analysts current/former players would point out how difficult his shots are and were impressed by him makin them. You're whinin cause you don't like the facts while always statin your opinion on LeBron as a fact is the type of fanboyish stuff that doesn't belong on this site cac, the only hyperbole and exaggeration has been in your books you wrote in here the fact of the matter is Kobe was more effective than LeBron in the paint get over it and stop throwin hissy fits like a fakkit.

bytch the stats were ran on tv you talkin bout incomplete when it was to show what their numbers were AT THAT MOMENT those were playoff numbers not Finals numbers, and its funny you think I'm a loser like you are and will search the net to find out what game that graphic from 2001 aired on. Nah thats shyt that you do clown, your selective memory only highlights LBJ's "triumphs" so don't try to throw stones livin in that glass house of yours.

Some cac named John Hollinger created PER a writer from ESPN that no one knows or cares about, that automatically makes it a joke cause who gives a fukk what he thinks its not like it was created by actual basketball legends. The only reason you like those made up stats is because they go against that same "consensus" that you keep bringin up you love to have a consensus about things until you don't agree wit it so you search for bullshyt to tell yourself that the consensus is suddenly wrong now, no the consensus is right Kobe shoots better than LeBron in clutch situations and plays better than LBJ in the postseason. There goes your arrogance again typical cac fashion talkin down to those who disagree wit his precious fake stats, the uninformed are idiots like you believin in made up stats that the league doesn't even use even ESPN hardly ever references it.

I don't need to give reasonin to somethin thats common sense maybe if you had some you wouldn't beg me to break everythin down for your slow ass, Wade was clearly better than Odom and Allen was a all star the VERY YEAR BEFORE he signed and did play like one winnin games for them in the clutch if LeBron did it you'd gas it up but since it was a role player you ignore it cause it doesn't fit your narrative. Wade was Batman cause he was the leader of that team and LeBron knew he had Wade to fall back on if he fukked up, and since that team were the best in the league he was front runnin like he always does. Everyone knows that was Wade's team and he was the guy he played like Batman the first championship and had a resurgence durin the second ring which is why LeBron has 2, you're the one who needs to calm down Stanley Mitchell.

Stat paddin is a great attempt at defendin my position whats poor is your attempt at side steppin what I said cause you know you can't refute it, obviously if you have a huge game in a series it can significantly change your average for the entire series and Bron like everyone always says is the best front runnin stat padder there is. I'm sure your father would be disappointed in you for bein a dikksuckin LeBron stan thats if you had a father cause its clear you fatherless and LeBron is your surrogate daddy, I was just tellin you about why they called him "Tragic Johnson" it wasn't for the whole game it was for the clutch moments you refuse to acknowledge LeBron's great games don't far overshadow the poor ones cause he's had quite a few that were poor but you musta blocked that out like a traumatized stan.

Your problem wit the ring argument is Kobe has more than LeBron so you wanna whine about context yet have no problem wit context in how LeBron scored those playoff points, they coulda been up by 20 and cruisin wit LeBron paddin his stats especially in Miami but you don't want that context suddenly you just want to focus on the stats. 5-2 >>>>> 2-4 deal wit it.

1 &2) Kobe played clutch basketball, somethin your lover LBJ knows nothin about.

3) The emoji IS my rebuttal dumbass, that means what you said was ducktales aka bullshyt. Smarten up you autistic cac.

4) Gasol was soft and so was Dwight so that was a good matchup, Kobe's lack of support was way worse than LeBron who did have support. I don't give a fukk what YOU think about who's soft or the people who call him soft you're a fukkin retard what you say is irrelevant, Kobe was one of those people who called him soft and Shaq was another one yet your dumbass has the audacity to say THEY don't have an ounce of understandin his game they know what makes him a dominant player is not bein soft and he was playin soft which pissed off Kobe cause he wanted to win and pissed off Shaq cause he holds talented big men to his standard.

5) I don't have to look up or provide shyt for you cac thats your problem you think cause you so invested into this thread and tryna show how great your man LeBron is that I'm gonna put in that much work too, nah this ain't the court of law I don't have a burden of proof you want it go find it or keep it movin I couldn't care less but you ain't gonna have me scramblin around the net like you to find shyt. This just goes back to you havin no life cause if you did you'd know people personally wit these opinions but since you autistic your only contact wit other people comes from sites like this one and blogs, thats why you so passionately defendin your man he really is your hero and you have nothin better to do wit your miserable life than post books to cape for LeBron.

I agree 5 is greater than 2, but Shaq cannot be countered with Bosh and Wade because that's TWO players.

Or do you not understand 2 is greater than 1?

I could argue Pau and Odom is equal to Bosh and Wade, but you'll probably act like you don't understand that.

As far as rings go, I believe Chamberlain was more dominant and a better player than Russell despite Russell having more championships due to having better teammates.

But your simpleton behind probably can't comprehend that concept, huh m

And those 2 people give LeBron the advantage which is what I said, do you not understand that 2 is greater than 1?

It doesn't matter what you believe no one even knows who your dumbass is, kick rocks fakkit.

1. LeBron has had literally 1 season to win post-Bosh/Wade, and even then he helped carry a battered team to the Finals.
Please use context.

2. LeBron for his career shoots a better percentage from 3, inside the line, and averages more points, how is Kobe a better shooter or scorer?
Please don't compare shooting form.

Please kill yourself.

2. This is the type of statement Kobe stans pull out their ass, but it's been proven in this thread several times that Kobe does NOT shoot better than LeBron. It may look better, but it doesn't go in more, understand?

Don't quote me anymore, understand?

 

[OG Talk]

@ having to wait till this year to come to that conclusion

 

[Dominicansbelit]

I don't understand how people can say kobe is better scorer than bron... Look at both of their fg and 3 point percentages..