Some People Call This Producing, I Call It Finessing

[Boonapalist]

That's true of other genres, but in hip hop the role of the producer has been synonmous with the beat maker. If you ain't involved in making the beat in hip hop I'm sorry but I can't call you a producer.

I'm sorry but this ain't about Quincy Jones shyt. Hip Hop at its fundementals is a ELECTRONIC form of music. The beat maker is king. I'm getting sick of people continuing to dismiss the role of the beat maker. On a musical level...the beat maker is still king in hip hop. I don't give a fukk. Dre, Puffy, Kanye...they can add some icing on top...but at the end of the day hip hop is a different beast to more traditional pop/rock/r&b forms of music. It is a beat driven form of music. Traditional producing can still play a role but not to the level of other forms of music.

Idk about Kanye because his music really isn’t for me, but for the majority of his career Dre was actually working the drum machine. Either he was working with other musicians on the keyboard or guitar or he was using how its regularly used in hip hop.

 

[blankstairz]

That's true of other genres, but in hip hop the role of the producer has been synonmous with the beat maker. If you ain't involved in making the beat in hip hop I'm sorry but I can't call you a producer.

I'm sorry but this ain't about Quincy Jones shyt. Hip Hop at its fundementals is a ELECTRONIC form of music. The beat maker is king. I'm getting sick of people continuing to dismiss the role of the beat maker. On a musical level...the beat maker is still king in hip hop. I don't give a fukk. Dre, Puffy, Kanye...they can add some icing on top...but at the end of the day hip hop is a different beast to more traditional pop/rock/r&b forms of music. It is a beat driven form of music. Traditional producing can still play a role but not to the level of other forms of music.

Why is it different for hip-hop?

Some say the DJ was king in hip-hop.



Kanye and Dre were also beatmakers. They worked the MPCs and drum programming. Dre also played keys and mixed.

Puff, self-admittedly, was never a programmer. He started his career as a party promoter which meant he had to know what was hot in the streets. What the people wanted. He used those skills when it came to production. He had the ear for what sounds would work. That is a skill a lot of people lack.



Embracing the 'traditional' producer isn't a diss to beatmakers at all.


There is a role for everyone who contributed to hip-hop music.

 

[Razzay]

Why is it different for hip-hop?

Some say the DJ was king in hip-hop.



Kanye and Dre were also beatmakers. They worked the MPCs and drum programming. Dre also played keys and mixed.

Puff, self-admittedly, was never a programmer. He started his career as a party promoter which meant he had to know what was hot in the streets. What the people wanted. He used those skills when it came to production. He had the ear for what sounds would work. That is a skill a lot of people lack.



Embracing the 'traditional' producer isn't a diss to beatmakers at all.


There is a role for everyone who contributed to hip-hop music.

In the thick of things there is over atleast 1 million beat makers or technical programmers out there in the US right now.

but there may be a few thousand producers in the actually music business / industry

then to further break it down there are only a select few of producers that make hits in the hundreds

and a rarity is the few that have classics and #1 smashes - that’s puff and dre

 

[THE 101]

You sound foolish.

A beat can be cold af however if the arrangements on the song ain't on point it will be wasted.

But that's the thing, you're acting like the beat maker is the equivalent to a studio session musician in the 70s.

When the history of hip hop has shown us that the beat maker is also the producer. You telling me RZA, Premo, Quik, Timbo, Marley, Pete, Tip etc didn't both make beats and arrange the songs themselves? So why does genius Diddy need a team of beat makers?

I'm sorry, Diddy is the only "producer" in hip hop who get's credit without actually being able to make beats. To be a producer in hip hop you have to be able to make beats. I'm sorry, but it's a beat driven genre. RZA, Premo and them can construct songs from their own beats. Diddy can't make no fukking beats.

 

[jilla82]

Steve Jobs wasn't an engineer, but had the vision to create.

Pharrell is Steve Jobs in this example...
...Puff is a worker at Apple giving some input.

 

[Razzay]

But that's the thing, you're acting like the beat maker is the equivalent to a studio session musician in the 70s.

When the history of hip hop has shown us that the beat maker is also the producer. You telling me RZA, Premo, Quik, Timbo, Marley, Pete, Tip etc didn't both make beats and arrange the songs themselves? So why does genius Diddy need a team of beat makers?

I'm sorry, Diddy is the only "producer" in hip hop who get's credit without actually being able to make beats. To be a producer in hip hop you have to be able to make beats. I'm sorry, but it's a beat driven genre. RZA, Premo and them can construct songs from their own beats. Diddy can't make no fukking beats.

 

[Razzay]

Looks like people need to learn the history

 

[blankstairz]

Pharrell is Steve Jobs in this example...
...Puff is a worker at Apple giving some input.

Not quite. Pharrell would be Woz.

Jobs was not a computer programmer. Bill Gates (a programmer) looked down on Jobs because of it. Thought Jobs was a great marketer of his company.

Sound familiar?



Puff was a visionary just like Jobs was a visionary.

Puff was the driving force of Bad Boy (and his years at Uptown).

 

[Razzay]

Who wants the smoke

 

[jilla82]

Not quite. Pharrell would be Woz.

Jobs was not a computer programmer. Bill Gates (a programmer) looked down on Jobs because of it. Thought Jobs was a great marketer of his company.

Sound familiar?



Puff was a visionary just like Jobs was a visionary.

Puff was the driving force of Bad Boy (and his years at Uptown).

the vision for that beat came from Pharrell.

Thats why Apple is a bad comparison to Puff...
...Pharrell had the vision, and the ability to create his vision....
...Puff walked in with only some opinions to something that was already created.

If there is a Steve Jobs comparison, it would be Kanye (or Quincy Jones).
Kanye doesnt make all his music or clothes...but he has a clear idea on what he wants....
...he recruits the people he needs in order for it to come to fruition.

 

[JustCKing]

Breh, how is this finessing if Puff isn't even credited with production on this song?

This is the finished product by the way:

 

[blankstairz]

the vision for that beat came from Pharrell.

Thats why Apple is a bad comparison to Puff...
...Pharrell had the vision, and the ability to create his vision....
...Puff walked in with only some opinions to something that was already created.

If there is a Steve Jobs comparison, it would be Kanye (or Quincy Jones).
Kanye doesnt make all his music or clothes...but he has a clear idea on what he wants....
...he recruits the people he needs in order for it to come to fruition.

Kanye made beats though. Earlier in his career, he was programming, doing the chipmunk samples. It wasn't until later he went the traditional route.

Quincy Jones was a composer and musician. For MJ's records he took the role of traditional producer, and others were composing.

Puff is the Jobs comparison.

Woz did the hands on stuff for Apple in the beginning. Jobs gave his opinions too. He was notorious for his opinions and sometimes taking credit for ideas others brought forward. But he was the visionary of the company. He knew what he wanted for his products. And he worked with engineers/programmers, etc. to bring his vision to life.

Puff did the same thing with the Chucky Thompson, Stevie J's, and the rest of the Hitman etc.

 

[director_of_bands]

nkkas gonna spin this into "he had the vision" so @ me when they set up a visionary battle

 

[Razzay]

I can’t wait for the haters to come out of the woodworks when the battle happens. Puff ain’t new to this he went through this in the mid 90s hate from the traditional beat makers. You think he cares now what people think? If anything this gives him an opportunity to showcase his legacy again.

 

[Razzay]

Puff potential 20

1- Craig Mack - Flava in ya year
2- Total / Big - can’t t you see
3- Notorious Big - Juicy
4- Faith Evans - you used to love me
5- Jodeci - come and talk to me
6- Mary J Blige - real love
7- 112 - only you (original and remix)
8- Mase / Total - tell me what you want
9- Mase - Feel so good
10- Mariah Carey - Fantasy
11- Puff/Big - Victory
12- Notorious - warning
13- Notorious - Big poppa
14- Notorious - the world is filled or Notorious Thugs
15 - Puff /Mase / Big - Been around the world
16 - Notorious - one more chance remix
17- Notorious - hypnotize
18- Notorious / Puff / Mase - mo money mo problems
19- Puff / lox/ big - all about the Benjamin’s
20- Notorious/ Puff - who shot ya

Bonus rounds
21. Mary J Blige - What’s the 4-1-1 ft Grand Puba or Biggie version
22- Supercat ft Third Eye, Biggie - Dolly my baby
23- Faith Evans - Love like this
24- Mariah Carey - Honey
25- MC Lyte/ Missy - Cold Rock a Party
26- KRS - One Step into our world
27- Jay-z - where I’m from or Roc Boys
28- Lox - Money, Power, Respect
29- Lil Kim - No time or Crush on you
30 -Junior Mafia - Get Money