Someone's GOAT (NOT MINE) got whooped in a first round series after getting gifted a top 5 player in the league
- Thread starter CantStop
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murksiderock
Superstar
LeBron has played with three All-NBA teammates: Wade, Kyrie, and AD...
None of those other guys were All-NBA during the time they played with LeBron...
LeBron won a title in '12 and '16 as an underdog and led five other Finals runs ('07, '14, '15, '17, '18) as an underdog with teams most greats wouldn't win a series with...
Part of his enduring legacy is we can look at the track record of every pantheon All-Timer and see what they did with poor rosters and/or mid coaching around them. Vast majority of them weren't carrying bad teams to Finals, they weren't winning Finals as underdogs, and in most situations they are either missing the playoffs outright or getting knocked off immediately....
The problem with the current angle on Bron is the expectation that in his later years, when we can clearly see he's a declining player each year, having an expectation that he performs the way he did in his youth. No other player in NBA history had this expected of them...
Nobody expected Mike to turn the Wizards into annual contenders...
Kareem played 20 years and after the keys were passed to Magic, no one expected him to dominate series...
Kobe played 20 years and after the Achilles no one expected him to lead contention. But LeBron, old and battling multiple injuries every year just like all those guys, by virtue of being better and more capable at an age they weren't, is expected to dominate the way he did pre-Lakers...
He came to LA in his 16th season, that was more years than Mike's, Russell's, Bird's, Wilt's, Magic's entire careers. Came here and as an immediate sign of his age, had the first major injury of his career and missed the playoffs in Y16 for the first time since Y2...
Immediately won a title the next year but the rest of his LA tenure, was another missed playoffs, a WCF run, and 3 Rd1 exits...
Keep in mind, he never lost a first round series in his career. Until he was 36 and Y18. Cats crack jokes as if he just can't hack it in The West, which is twofold dishonesty based upon his age, #1. #2, if the East was so easy to dominate, there's a laundry list of Hall Of Famers to play in The East in their primes over the last 22 years, who haven't dominated it nearly to the same extent...
The problem with preseason odds is that they are largely based on what has happened in prior years, so preseason odds dont capture teams that broke out (ex: 2015 Warriors, 2023 Nuggets). They also don’t predict regression of players from prior seasons or factor in injuries.
This is a stupid methodology to use to determine anything because you’re just punishing someone for being so good that their presence on any team pretty much immediately yields the expectation of winning a championship. In no way is LeBron in 2010 carrying a underwhelming cast to 60 wins and losing in the second round against the Big 3 Celtics underachieving. Ditto with losing in the 2015 finals to the 67 win Warriors with Mozgov as his best teammate.
Go look at any sports publication.. Bron is top 2Bron stans dont decide who is Top 2. The general public does.
He's not that guy.
Most insecure standards in sports history.
Just be fine with top 5 and move on, unless he plays another 8 years
We have Jordan vs Bron debates.. that’s a part of sports lexicon now
Kobe ain’t in it breh.. sorry
Apprentice
RIP Doughboy Roc
Breh uk I love u I ain’t got the brain power to read all that fam
Ima tell chat gpt summarize it rq and I’ll holla
Lmfao what? Klutch PR don’t even be trying
The Warriors won the title the year before the Cavs were the preseason favs to win the chip
U just making shyt up, come on Klutch agent u can do better
I’m not talking about 2016 dummy, im talking about 2015 when the Cavs were the preseason favorites, the Warriors emerged, and the Cavs suffered catastrophic injuries in the finals.Breh uk I love u I ain’t got the brain power to read all that fam
Ima tell chat gpt summarize it rq and I’ll holla
Lmfao what? Klutch PR don’t even be trying
The Warriors won the title the year before the Cavs were the preseason favs to win the chip
U just making shyt up, come on Klutch agent u can do better
And you didn’t even attempt to refute my overall point
Apprentice
RIP Doughboy Roc
Breh u repeated sumn I already debunked
The Cavs were the preseason favs to win the 2016 NBA championship
It was only after warriors came back 3-1 on thunder where they became final favorites
LeBron wins with teams that are loaded, if the team has some clear deficiency; they’ll likely fold at some point
The 2017 finals is an example of this, yes the Warriors were expected to win, but Cavs only lost 1 game in the East and were within a 1 point score of multiple games that series, still ended 4-1
He’s not as big of a floor raiser when the odds stacked against him, and that’s the biggest claim to Bron
areohbee824
Superstar
In MLB, NFL and NHL tooSomeone's GOAT has the most playoff losses in NBA history.
Apprentice
RIP Doughboy Roc
Nobody mentioned the 2015 finals tho lolI’m not talking about 2016 dummy, im talking about 2015 when the Cavs were the preseason favorites, the Warriors emerged, and the Cavs suffered catastrophic injuries in the finals.
And you didn’t even attempt to refute my overall point
This is for sure klutch propaganda, that’s no different than bringing up the 07 or 14 finals, I said nothing about that
I said when Bron is a favorite, he’ll win, if not it’s quiet
2016 is his most celebrated ring and they were supposed to do it the whole time, nikkas acting like in 2015 people wasn’t saying Love, Bron and Ky were the best trio in the league
Facts and if Bron had to defend opposing guards and small forwards his entire career like Kobe and MJ did he definitely wouldn’t be playing at this level for this long.
WhoShotCha
Superstar
Bro all the players who played against both have already said that Kobe is better than LeBron. LePropaganda doesnt hold the same weight with actual ballers. Sorry.
What did you debunk? Preseason odds are meaningless. Finals odds reflect the actual context—how teams have played, who's healthy, and how matchups look. The Lakers were preseason favorites in 2021, fell to the 7th seed because AD and Bron each missed half the season, and then lost when AD got injured. The Cavs were the preseason favorites in 2015 and lost in the finals due to injuries.
Lebron was the best player on the floor in both the 2016 and 2017 finals. The Cavs lost in 2017 because they had no chance of guarding the Warriors death lineup with Love at center.
Lebron played more defense in this playoffs than either did combined in the last three seasons of their career
