Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ezra Klein Hash Out Their Charlie Kirk Disagreement

[Piff Perkins]

its amazing to me a lot of people still haven't figured out that white liberals love nikkas but hate black people with a passion

I don't even think it's that. A lot of white liberalism boils down to coalitions and virtue. The coalition side is the mixture of different demographics who come together to support The Candidate or The Message. Black women, gay people, whatever. The virtue part is the personal satisfaction and sense of moral superiority garnered from supporting said members of the coalition. I'm a good person because I support gay marriage. I'm a good person because I support black empowerment. I'm a good person because I support the environment.

Klein is showing the other side of this union: when members of the coalition say or do things that make you (white people) less proud, you angrily react because they are threatening success of The Candidate/The Message. We see this with Gaza a lot where people who would normally be all-in on a "support war refugees/stop the war" campaign became violently upset with activists. We saw this from Klein and a lot of others where they throw trans people under the bus because they're allegedly preventing dems from winning.

Basically at any moment you can be thrown off the party bus. And Klein is in the process of figuring who he can do that to.

 

[Wargames]

Just finished it. I feel that Coates held back from really getting on Ezra and allowed him to pivot away from the discussion about Kirk

It felt like he realized Ezra was out of his depth and politely let him live. Though he hinted several times that Ezra is full of shyt. Like I got the feeling he came to have a deeper debate and settled on just getting through the interview and calling him or his stance out for being wrong when it was egregious.

I don't even think it's that. A lot of white liberalism boils down to coalitions and virtue. The coalition side is the mixture of different demographics who come together to support The Candidate or The Message. Black women, gay people, whatever. The virtue part is the personal satisfaction and sense of moral superiority garnered from supporting said members of the coalition. I'm a good person because I support gay marriage. I'm a good person because I support black empowerment. I'm a good person because I support the environment.

Klein is showing the other side of this union: when members of the coalition say or do things that make you (white people) less proud, you angrily react because they are threatening success of The Candidate/The Message. We see this with Gaza a lot where people who would normally be all-in on a "support war refugees/stop the war" campaign became violently upset with activists. We saw this from Klein and a lot of others where they throw trans people under the bus because they're allegedly preventing dems from winning.

Basically at any moment you can be thrown off the party bus. And Klein is in the process of figuring who he can do that to.

James Baldwin wrote about this but it's more that black people are a means to the end for their vision of a utopian society that they run. If we challenge either them or their vision we quickly become disposable. He used the example of some musicians from Harlem that was booked by liberals to go down south and get support for the local white candidates. Once those musicians dared to stop singing and begin to talk about the issues affecting black people on stage, the liberal whites who booked the tour, cut the tour short. and didn't even pay them all that was owed. I even think they stranded them in the south so they had to use the money they did have to go back home. It was an abandonment in all forms.

So you are right that is exactly what Klein is doing. He is part of a tradition of seeing black people as objects for their pursuit of power and not people with their own problems, let alone their own agency/thoughts on how to handle those problems. If we challenge them too quickly they then abandon us to find some other black person to use to get what they want.

 

[Left.A1]

The MAGA movement came from the far right grassroots. And Trump promised his far right grassroots base to do what they asked him to do. And that is protect whiteness and not let them be "replaced" by none-whites.

There could be several reasons why a man like Ezra leans Left. I've seen several Left leaning individuals crossover to the Right witting in blink of an eye and vice versa. So, yeah I agree with the overall sentiment the way you interpreted the conversation between Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ezra Klein. Ezra Klein is of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity.

¡Adios, America! : the left's plan to turn our country into a third world hellhole : Coulter, Ann H., author : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

392 pages ; 21 cm

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Agreed and just to add as well on Ezra’s long term strategy.… if your whole objective is this zero sum game of “winning” at all cost how long is that going to be sustainable until you shave no party identity at all... Which is another problem that he isn't addressing in all of these thought sessions that he does... I mean at what point dows your party become less of a an opposition party in favor of firmly cementing yourself as collaborators….and how much of that back bending mush mouth double talk depresses the base and keeps your voters at home leading to the losses that he seemingly can't understand I mean if you're not centering yourself on principles because you just want to call yourself a so called winner… just stop associating your name with democrats all together and become a republican, or conservative or whatever and your problem is solved.

Like there's a reason we don't have a monarch in this country... Opposing political views and the fluctuations of power is built into our governments framework.… but if you don't have core values that dictate your political labels that you're willing to stand on in the face of adversity there's not really a point in having the labels or parties to begin with… there's certainly not a need to try to strategize on the behalf of one for sure…. If you want to embarrass the alleged opposition so much...just go be one yourself

 

[Left.A1]

Of course

 

[RamsayBolton]

Hasan going over this right now and saying what we saying as far as giving up ground to republicans is dumb as fukk and that Ezra is a super white liberal

 

[Mister Terrific]

Coates is brilliant. I don’t agree with everything he says but he’s unquestionably one of the best minds in journalism/writing now.

 

[DonRe]

Man Coates is that dude. Just weaves in historical context and the lived experience of minorities in this country.

Ezra and his kind love to brush it under the rug. But Coates wears that on his sleeves.

Ezra is too worried on the power structure but not equity or how the democratic has failed its constituency.

While coates knows to keep his eyes on both sides knowing they only care about delf

 

[Ish Gibor]

Agreed and just to add as well on Ezra’s long term strategy.… if your whole objective is this zero sum game of “winning” at all cost how long is that going to be sustainable until you shave no party identity at all... Which is another problem that he isn't addressing in all of these thought sessions that he does... I mean at what point dows your party become less of a an opposition party in favor of firmly cementing yourself as collaborators….and how much of that back bending mush mouth double talk depresses the base and keeps your voters at home leading to the losses that he seemingly can't understand I mean if you're not centering yourself on principles because you just want to call yourself a so called winner… just stop associating your name with democrats all together and become a republican, or conservative or whatever and your problem is solved.

Like there's a reason we don't have a monarch in this country... Opposing political views and the fluctuations of power is built into our governments framework.… but if you don't have core values that dictate your political labels that you're willing to stand on in the face of adversity there's not really a point in having the labels or parties to begin with… there's certainly not a need to try to strategize on the behalf of one for sure…. If you want to embarrass the alleged opposition so much...just go be one yourself

This only is Trump's first year in and I think the closer he gets to the end of this term, the more he's going to ramp it up. Don't know how he will respond to the midterm, because the popularity approval rating as of now around 30% - 40%. The poem by Martin Niemöller – “First They Came…”, should have Erza worried, but he's obviously naive.


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---

The Trump administration isn’t only targeting organizations or groups but even individuals and “entities” whom NSPM-7 says can be identified by any of the following “indicia” (indicators) of violence:

• anti-Americanism,
• anti-capitalism,
• anti-Christianity,
• support for the overthrow of the United States Government,
• extremism on migration,
• extremism on race,
• extremism on gender,
• hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family,
• hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on religion, and
• hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on morality.

---

National Security Directive Declares War on Those Who Don’t Support Trump Agenda

The directive labels common beliefs such as “anti-capitalist” opinions as terrorism “indicators.”…

truthout.org

​

Trump wants to make sure he will leave a legacy behind as the great white hope.

 

[WIA20XX]

Economic Populism is what I see a lot of the people left of Ezra, talking about. Including Hasan.

This is one of their success stories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/opinion/democrats-dan-osborne.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk8.RkJr.iGL6rSC7Nh36&smid=url-share

Direct outreach to Republicans is an essential piece of Mr. Osborn’s campaign. “The truth is, I agree with President Trump on many of the most important issues facing the country,” he wrote in an essay for the Fox News website, listing China and draining the swamp as examples. “If he needs someone to help him build the wall,” Mr. Osborn added, “well, I’m pretty handy.”

 

[Ish Gibor]

Economic Populism is what I see a lot of the people left of Ezra, talking about. Including Hasan.

This is one of their success stories.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/opinion/democrats-dan-osborne.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk8.RkJr.iGL6rSC7Nh36&smid=url-share

This is what they are up against.

An interesting take on modern geopolitics and economy.

"The 'Butterfly Revolution' is HAPPENING Right Now (And You Don't Even Know It)"




"MAGA FASCISM IS HERE", with the author and journalist Chris Hedges.

American fascists : the Christian Right and the war on America : Hedges, Chris : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

254 p. ; 23 cm

archive.org

"IHIP News: Trump's PLAN LEAKED to Press, Dems SECRETLY HELPING Him?!"

 

[Gloxina]

 

[TheJet]

The fucc we still talking about this dude for? He was k*lled in Utah by a kid he very well could have radicalized. It's over. Leave it alone.

 

[Ish Gibor]

The fucc we still talking about this dude for? He was k*lled in Utah by a kid he very well could have radicalized. It's over. Leave it alone.

He was allegedly killed, and allegedly not by this 22 year old guy.

The more footage and information has come out, the less credible the story has become.

 

[bnew]

Folks (black presumably) mention it throughout this thread

Spoiler: text

Commented on Sun Sep 28 14:34:37 2025 UTC

I’ve rewritten/ deleted this a few times, because there is so much I could say. I’m glad Coates was on the show to share his point of view, because it seems like moderates are willfully misunderstanding it. All speech, including hate speech has always been protected in America, most Americans know this, and yet we must also acknowledge that political violence is a deep ugly part of American culture - it has been this way for hundreds of years.

What has been deeply unsettling is that despite the fact the CK directed so much hate towards Americans, nice moderate centrists continue to excuse / deny the existence of hate speech (even right wing violence sometimes!) in hopes of winning and building coalitions. In the wake of this tragic death, the moderate intellectual class has been scolding Americans. This is especially jarring for black Americans. It seems we are expected to push aside our our history, culture, and experience and participate in a sort of celebration of CK. We are also supposed to ignore the outright trolling (putting him on a pedestal next to MLK Jr for example- when did MLK Jr spew such hateful words?). This has been a revealing moment and betrayal.

CK’s rhetoric was not new or innovative. It was lifted from 90s era AM talk radio, remixed and brought to college campuses, and broadcast on social media. TPUSA was a paid marketing channel for rich billionaire donors and right wing radicals who desperately needed recruit a younger audience. TPUSA brought hope for an aging Republican Party who felt like night show comedians and Twitter/ TikTok warriors convinced their lefty kids or grandkids to cut them out of their lives.

We grieve for our country and we hope it finds its conscience and a path to nonviolence. However, we cannot obey orders from wishy washy moderates to celebrate, smile and genuflect in front of those who would deny us our humanity and get off on denigrating our ancestors for easy clicks and clout.

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Spoiler: text

│ Commented on Sun Sep 28 15:20:52 2025 UTC
│
│ Because they feel more comfortable with the idea engaging with a Charlie Kirk and shifting the window towards his side.
│
│ Saying Kirk practice politics the right way is a nice way to say “ Civility Politics in the face of fascism”.
│
│ Charlie Kirk was a propagandist, white supremacist and fascist who adopted the persona of a debate bro to push the Overton Window.
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│ Ideal simply because he went into hostile territory because for the love of debate is mind boggling.
│
│ I truly wonder if Ezra Klein and lot of other liberals actually engaged or aware of Kirk content?
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│ Because it not James Baldwin and Buckley debating.
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│ Like Medhi Hassan said regarding his shock on going on Jubilee discovering these people weren’t really interested in debate and said if he knew basically rook filled with literal fascists he wouldn’t go on as he didn’t want to help them gain more notoriety and doesn’t think anything can be engaged with a debate with fascists as they don’t care about evidence, truth, or logic.
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│ You have good faith debate where it exchange of ideals a battle. Premise is you except some resemblance of a shared reality and facts are facts. However you must argue your perspective and air disagreements. That a good faith debate. Bad faith debaters are simply not interested in logic, truth, or even winning. They simply to air out their own narrative and spread it. It is not based in reality or any evidence. It based on ignorance, hatred, and lies.
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│ And lionization by some Newsom and Klein is telling.
│
│ And lot of the whitewashing of Kirk I noticed not a single quote from him was published.
│
│ Because literally almost everything he said on camera was misinformation or hateful.
│
│ And we all know for a fact what would Charlie Kirk do if any leftists or liberal commentator like Ezra was the ones who died.
│
│ He probably would’ve laughed about it and called the person a lie. This was the guy who sponsored buses for January 6th and said someone in his audience should bail out Paul Pelosi.
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│ I fully believe the day Trump dies we will something similar. Whitewashing on who he was by these same actors.
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│ You don’t give fascist and white supremacists an inch. This historically is true. Because they’ll take a mile out of any inch and it never enough.
│
│ Notion we are entering area of political violence is ridiculous.
│
│ American is incredibly violent country. We were founded on it in multiple ways.
│
│ Not just against African Americans. To Native Americans, Asian Americans, Latino, Muslims, veterans and working class etc.
│
│ Reading American history it happens constantly and it is normalized.
│
│ We perpetuate political violence abroad for years throughout the world.
│
│ So this notion “this isn’t who we are” is ridiculous.
│
│ My own experience? I was shock Kirk had died because well he was in Utah. Even though it a college campus it still Utah do idea anyone got him was shocking.
│
│ But I felt nothing afterwards. Because I was aware that he was an evil man. Like truly evil. Even to his dying breath he was about to racebait about gun violence and mass shootings.
│
│ The notion he had a family is ridiculous. Most people have families. Even evil people have families.
│
│ This doesn’t change the fact when you promote misinformation, bigotry, hatred and bigotry within the world it isn’t shocking that the negativity you created or caused comes back to get you.
│
│ And Dr. King kinda to your point nails his distaste for moderates.
│
│ “The white moderate, for the most part, is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; he prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice. He constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action.”
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│ │

Spoiler: text

│ │ Commented on Sun Sep 28 15:59:15 2025 UTC
│ │
│ │ MLK was radically strategic enough that I am guessing he would be disappointed to see how often this quote is attempted to be use in any situation where the solution does not seem suitably left to leftists.
│ │
│ │ There is a reason he wrote that letter from the depths of a jail and not opened every speech with it.
│ │

│ │ │
│ │ │

Spoiler: text

│ │ │ Commented on Sun Sep 28 16:21:18 2025 UTC
│ │ │
│ │ │ He did bring up his disdain and frustration with liberal moderates in speeches.
│ │ │
│ │ │ “The tragic thing is that the white liberal who believes in progress and justice often tries to tell the oppressed to wait… The time is always ‘not yet.’ But justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
│ │ │
│ │ │ “There are many in the middle class, whites and Negroes alike, who, while sympathetic to the Negro’s plight, are not prepared to move beyond slogans and safe philanthropy… They want progress without tension, charity without justice.”
│ │ │
│ │ │ And this was something after years of fighting and experience with said people. He understood quite clearly and frankly reference.
│ │ │
│ │ │ That why it often earned him the ire from said people as he wasn’t afraid to speak on it in speeches.
│ │ │
│ │ │ MLK most whitewashed person in American history in the sense people don’t realize how radical he was and how he frequently drew ire from liberal moderate allies when he began discussing issues such as unions, poverty and American imperialism.
│ │ │
│ │ │ He would probably be more disappointed now at the state of country and how his legacy is twisted but perhaps not surprised on the nature of said moderates.
│ │ │