Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ezra Klein Hash Out Their Charlie Kirk Disagreement

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I just listened, Ezra Klein is taking the pragmatic view that you have to play the game and look past certain things so you can get into power and actually get things done while Ta Nehisi Coates is basically saying when you dehumanize people there is nothing to talk about.
 

Ish Gibor

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I just listened, Ezra Klein is taking the pragmatic view that you have to play the game and look past certain things so you can get into power and actually get things done while Ta Nehisi Coates is basically saying when you dehumanize people there is nothing to talk about.
Basically understandably, because Ezra's community is not directly targeted. Ta Nehisi's community is. Black people always played the punching bag, so that is what is being expected.


"Karen Attiah, was (until recently) an op-ed writer for the Washington Post. She was fired last week after writing a post on social media that said she wasn’t going to mourn Charlie Kirk, a white man who promoted violence and vitriol. She did not celebrate his death or condone political violence. The Washington Post then fired her for having a hot take, which is LITERALLY HER JOB as an opinion writer."

 
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Basically understandably, because Ezra's community is not directly targeted. Ta Nehisi's community is. Black people always played the punching bag, so that is what is being expected.


"Karen Attiah, was (until recently) an op-ed writer for the Washington Post. She was fired last week after writing a post on social media that said she wasn’t going to mourn Charlie Kirk, a white man who promoted violence and vitriol. She did not celebrate his death or condone political violence. The Washington Post then fired her for having a hot take, which is LITERALLY HER JOB as an opinion writer."


Didn't hear about this before
 

Ish Gibor

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Didn't hear about this before
I am watching this now...

"IHIP News: 🚨 Trump's PLAN LEAKED to Press, Dems SECRETLY HELPING Him?!"




"MAGA FASCISM IS HERE", with the author and journalist Chris Hedges.






An interesting take on modern geopolitics and economy.

"The 'Butterfly Revolution' is HAPPENING Right Now (And You Don't Even Know It)"

 
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Piff Perkins

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He still doesn't understand the backlash.

And I still don't understand his many supporters.
A lot of them are also screaming autocracy one second, but legit thoughts and prayers for Kirk.

And these are the people that are supposed to be down with me, supposedly? (C) Sadat X

End of the day Klein and many liberals are grappling with the fact that internet discourse is being dominated by conservative men and their interests/demands. It's no longer driven by single women, high income gay men, academia types, NPR etc. Klein wants a piece of that and is willing to risk his typical liberal audience to do so. So you constantly get this battle between him winking at (racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-immigrant/etc) white men for a crumb of engagement, while trying to keep the wine sipping community from completely abandoning him.

The funny thing to me is that there's always an upper class, well off Jewish or black person in media who thinks their higher calling is making peace with white men who want them dead. And this person always has a big microphone or influence. For us it's Van Jones.
 

FTBS

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Basically understandably, because Ezra's community is not directly targeted. Ta Nehisi's community is. Black people always played the punching bag, so that is what is being expected.


"Karen Attiah, was (until recently) an op-ed writer for the Washington Post. She was fired last week after writing a post on social media that said she wasn’t going to mourn Charlie Kirk, a white man who promoted violence and vitriol. She did not celebrate his death or condone political violence. The Washington Post then fired her for having a hot take, which is LITERALLY HER JOB as an opinion writer."


Its easy to "move on" and "get over it" and focus on the future and "stop being so negative about history" when you arent the one with the foot in your ass all throughout history. White men have the option of going along and fitting in and avoiding the bullshyt so of course they arent tripping like everyone else. I am not even mad at him or any of them, it makes sense to rock with your own interests. The poor white men, and the women, and immigrants, and people of color that go along like they will be anything but the first ones sacrificed are the ones that get me.
 

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Just off the rip Ezra seems to be the type of pundit that frames real life... consequential politics in a flippantly shallow perspective or position of a some sort of sporting contest or a weekend run through the Vegas casinos.

Like this isn't 3 card monte, there's no quick fix touchdown play “Philly Special” or magical overnight one hitter quitter tactic that you can pick up and toss out there to win power and solve the deeply entrenched socio-political issues that this country has consistently been constrained by since it's inception and there never has been…. These are issues that people have been fighting against for hundreds of years now in this country but he wants the quick answer and to shorten the historical frame of reference for this discussion to exclude that reality... Which is why he constantly tried to evade engaging whenever Coates would attempt to ground him in a HISTORICAL political reality that black people have been experiencing since we got here.

He like many non-blacks doesn't have the lived or ancestral passed down experiences to digest the very sober matter of fact macro level self aware understanding of “winning and losing” that Ta-Nehisi is operating from which leads him to believing the solution is simply thiemmicro strategy of capitulation to the opposition through one or more of the below get rich quick style schemes

“We just need to go on Joe Rogan”
“Lets run candidates who’s policies chase our base away because it's a purple disctric even though the polling data says people don't want that”
“Why not make more agitator style hot take content in conservative spaces”

Like these things SOUND possibly reasonable in isolation but none of these attempts are specifically strategic in themselves and certainly can't be seen as the cure holistically, and even more headscrating is the irony of Ezra pleading with his liberal audience to follow the so-called conservative playbook on amassing power while ignoring THEIR number #1 strategy which is submitting to a complete absolutist dedication of their OWN right winged racist nationalist political ideology. Doubling tripping down on it even. Which is the opposite of what Ezra suggests liberals do.

MAGA isn't trying to do this nonsensical political tightrope walk of reaching across the isle to find common ground with their opponents. Hell fukk no, they won by leaning deeeeeply away from any kind of moderate or collaborative instincts…. They leaned deeply into radicalism and grew their base by activating people who were otherwise disinterested in “politics” all together.. Which Ezra seems adverse to doing... MAGA made NEW coalitions, they didn't chase after old ones and that was intentional ...its counter intuitive at best and disingenuous at the least to ask liberals to immulate conservative political success when you're saying that the main insight libs should take from them is to pacify instead of completely defeat your opponents ideology… it doesn't square with any reality of the conservative movement at all.

Ezra strikes me as the type that would have been arguing that blacks were asking for “too much” during the civil rights era because he is afraid of taking principled stances against the majority due to whatever negative ramifications he thinks that will cause HIM regardless of the negative consequences that inaction would have on the larger impacted group … he thinks that embracing bigots will protect people from more bigotry lol... It's asinine.

This is clearly the fist time that he has felt politically and socially vulnerable (a reality that black people in this country inherently have been forced to navigate in as Coates keeps trying to articulate) and his natural instics in that state of discomfort is to immediately find ways to SELF preserve by sacrificing things that aren't as theeating to HIM personally. As someone mentioned previously, he's the kind of moderate non black MLK warned about. The kind that would have no problem selling others down the river to protect himself.

Coates summed the ills of Ezra’s whole perspective up perfectly when he said:

“You take very seriously the need to convince the people outside of the tent right now to come in…. I want you to take as seriously the need to KEEP the people already in the tent there”

In all of his MAGA political strategy fawning, this is the reality of what MAGA does that he misses. You have to motivate YOUR base first. And you're not going to do that by gaslightghing them or lecturing them about how they need to move closer to the opposition that's actively trying to harm them. It's not what the MAGA strategy that he wants to emulate does, It's bad politics, its nonsensical logically, and just simply wrong from a human perspective. :francis:
 

Piff Perkins

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Good example of how slop gets laundered as Serious Thoughts because it comes from white people, specifically white men. This is the "a lot of people are saying..." thing Trump does. It holds no weight if it's the wrong people saying the wrong things, but if it's a white guy complaining that black women and Hispanics are taking all the jobs? Sure!
 

Ish Gibor

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Just off the rip Ezra seems to be the type of pundit that frames real life... consequential politics in a flippantly shallow perspective or position of a some sort of sporting contest or a weekend run through the Vegas casinos.

Like this isn't 3 card monte, there's no quick fix touchdown play “Philly Special” or magical overnight one hitter quitter tactic that you can pick up and toss out there to win power and solve the deeply entrenched socio-political issues that this country has consistently been constrained by since it's inception and there never has been…. These are issues that people have been fighting against for hundreds of years now in this country but he wants the quick answer and to shorten the historical frame of reference for this discussion to exclude that reality... Which is why he constantly tried to evade engaging whenever Coates would attempt to ground him in a HISTORICAL political reality that black people have been experiencing since we got here.

He like many non-blacks doesn't have the lived or ancestral passed down experiences to digest the very sober matter of fact macro level self aware understanding of “winning and losing” that Ta-Nehisi is operating from which leads him to believing the solution is simply thiemmicro strategy of capitulation to the opposition through one or more of the below get rich quick style schemes

“We just need to go on Joe Rogan”
“Lets run candidates who’s policies chase our base away because it's a purple disctric even though the polling data says people don't want that”
“Why not make more agitator style hot take content in conservative spaces”

Like these things SOUND possibly reasonable in isolation but none of these attempts are specifically strategic in themselves and certainly can't be seen as the cure holistically, and even more headscrating is the irony of Ezra pleading with his liberal audience to follow the so-called conservative playbook on amassing power while ignoring THEIR number #1 strategy which is submitting to a complete absolutist dedication of their OWN right winged racist nationalist political ideology. Doubling tripping down on it even. Which is the opposite of what Ezra suggests liberals do.

MAGA isn't trying to do this nonsensical political tightrope walk of reaching across the isle to find common ground with their opponents. Hell fukk no, they won by leaning deeeeeply away from any kind of moderate or collaborative instincts…. They leaned deeply into radicalism and grew their base by activating people who were otherwise disinterested in “politics” all together.. Which Ezra seems adverse to doing... MAGA made NEW coalitions, they didn't chase after old ones and that was intentional ...its counter intuitive at best and disingenuous at the least to ask liberals to immulate conservative political success when you're saying that the main insight libs should take from them is to pacify instead of completely defeat your opponents ideology… it doesn't square with any reality of the conservative movement at all.

Ezra strikes me as the type that would have been arguing that blacks were asking for “too much” during the civil rights era because he is afraid of taking principled stances against the majority due to whatever negative ramifications he thinks that will cause HIM regardless of the negative consequences that inaction would have on the larger impacted group … he thinks that embracing bigots will protect people from more bigotry lol... It's asinine.

This is clearly the fist time that he has felt politically and socially vulnerable (a reality that black people in this country inherently have been forced to navigate in as Coates keeps trying to articulate) and his natural instics in that state of discomfort is to immediately find ways to SELF preserve by sacrificing things that aren't as theeating to HIM personally. As someone mentioned previously, he's the kind of moderate non black MLK warned about. The kind that would have no problem selling others down the river to protect himself.

Coates summed the ills of Ezra’s whole perspective up perfectly when he said:

“You take very seriously the need to convince the people outside of the tent right now to come in…. I want you to take as seriously the need to KEEP the people already in the tent there”

In all of his MAGA political strategy fawning, this is the reality of what MAGA does that he misses. You have to motivate YOUR base first. And you're not going to do that by gaslightghing them or lecturing them about how they need to move closer to the opposition that's actively trying to harm them. It's not what the MAGA strategy that he wants to emulate does, It's bad politics, its nonsensical logically, and just simply wrong from a human perspective. :francis:
The MAGA movement came from the far right grassroots. And Trump promised his far right grassroots base to do what they asked him to do. And that is protect whiteness and not let them be "replaced" by none-whites.

There could be several reasons why a man like Ezra leans Left. I've seen several Left leaning individuals crossover to the Right witting in blink of an eye and vice versa. So, yeah I agree with the overall sentiment the way you interpreted the conversation between Ta-Nehisi Coates and Ezra Klein. Ezra Klein is of Ashkenazi Jewish ethnicity.

 
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TrapHouse Rock

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Ezra Klien and his ilk have RUINED the "left"

This interview is further proof that "liberal" whites are just as dangerous

its amazing to me a lot of people still haven't figured out that white liberals love nikkas but hate black people with a passion
 
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