Tetsuo & Youth is too cryptic for me

[hex]

Not sure I've heard it before but I'll take your word for it. since we traveling back to the 90s though, it is a compliment depending how you use it. You know like fat spelled phat is a good thing.

There's nothing inherently bad about the term "puzzle rap"....but the term was applied to shyt like Anticon, Aesop Rock, and a ton of really weird underground shyt during the 90's.

The Lupe thread is hilarious because it's a microcosm of that entire movement during the 90's, down to how they perceived anyone who wasn't a fan. For better or worse traditionally hip-hop has not sounded like this Lupe album, though....so it's puzzling to see people claim he's "taking it back" or "bringing back lyricism".

Fred.

 

[GoldenGlove]

The most I've said is that he gets undeserved hate and his last album was better than people thought. That's a far cry from the stannery from the lupe brigade.

So the only people loving the album are diehard Lupe fans? fukk outta here

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

There's nothing inherently bad about the term "puzzle rap"....but the term was applied. To shyt like Anticon, Aesop Rock, and a ton of really weird underground shyt during the 90's.

The Lupe thread is hilarious because it's a microcosm of that entire movement during the 90's, down to how they perceived anyone who wasn't a fan. For better or worse traditionally hip-hop has not sounded like this Lupe album, though....so it's puzzling to see people claim he's "taking it back" or "bringing back lyricism".

Fred.

So you're saying lupe is on some weird worded sounding bars this album? Since you ment it uncomplimentary.

Traditionally nothing now "sounds" like it did when people where doing boom bap production...I haven't seen anyone say he's "bringing back lyricism" tbh, but I haven't read the thread in its entirety.

What is really puzzling is to say, "hip hop wasn't like that" then compare him to artists who rapped like that back then, traditionally.

 

[Snake Puppy]

You can appreciate the Tetso album better when you are high while you are listening to it.

 

[spliz]

So the only people loving the album are diehard Lupe fans? fukk outta here

I know that's BS..cause on superbowl night nikkas was bumpin it as background music during the game and smokin and drinkin and everybody liked it...kept puttin songs on repeat and half the nikkas in there wasn't even Lupe fans like that...

 

[wire28]

So the only people loving the album are diehard Lupe fans? fukk outta here

Is that what I said or have I consistently been talking about the stans

Comprehension is key to reading

 

[Abstract83]

This makes no sense....this "lyrical miracle, decipher my bars" shyt was never wide spread, even in the golden age. 80's or 90's.

If you took this album, and dropped it into let's say 1995....he would be an underground Lyricist Lounge type rapper. People were fukking with BONE, Outkast, Nas, Jay, Wu, Redman, Pac, BIG, etc....other regional shyt like UGK depending on where you're from....regardless, there was never anything like this remotely popular. It was always marginal....extremely marginal. So the idea that people got "accustomed to simplistic bars" and that's why they don't like this is as hell.

Fred.

U make a valid point. I'm basically saying that all those artists u named have bars that might go over some people's heads to if they don't catch the references and or meanings.

Its cool u don't like the album. U don't wanna decode it or figure it out no prob breh. But I respect Lupe for doing something different. That goes to show this album is unique. No one can duplicate it. That's what I respect it's something New. I respect our golden era and all but we'll never move forward if we constantly compare the past to the present.

Edit

I forgot to ask do u like lyricist lounge artists? I would say whats wrong with "lyrical miracle spirtual breh" If it wasn't for Dr. Dre Eminem would be that strugging artist now. Just because he might be on Rawkus and not with the big leagues you'll look down in him? Those artists may not have had the big labels help push u to like their sound but lyrically some of them were just as good as the golden era artists.

And my point was I'd rather have a artist go over my head than to hear the simplistic stuff of today. I wasnt comparing Lupe to those artists. But I would say like I said before those artists said shyt that wasn't as simplistic. They just made it digestible for the average listener. Some of them wanted to sell records and have respect from the streets. Lupe just made a album that can be decoded. Were also in a completely different era of creativity. I think that some ill shyt just my opinion.

 

[No1]

So the only people loving the album are diehard Lupe fans? fukk outta here

Let me put it like this for my battle rap fans. Lupe stans (and I am usually one) are treating this like he's Loaded Lux,and the detractors see him as Xcel. Both complex but one is engaging and the other is frequently pedantic. This is album is very well produced however. I still don't fully know what he is saying on Dots and Lines and I love that song. just have not sat down to break down everything that he is saying. You keep asking which Lupe people want...it's clear that they want Daydreams, Hurt Me Soul, American Terrorist, Pressure, Hip Hop Saved My Life, etc. There have always been people with specific skill set that appeal to a certain audience, and the true greats could appeal to the simple listener and the thinker. Every rapper does not have to be straightforward like Pac, but every rapper has a duty to be engaging and entertaining...otherwise why would you listen to them? Whatever you choose to do, whatever your lane, do it well. Lupe did that well for his core fanbase, but because he's so talented people who are not into "unnecessarily" cryptic shyt also give him a play and those are the detractors. These people are Nas, Jay and 3Stacks fans...not some 2Chainz shyt. It's like when you were reading literature in high school or college, the best stuff you read was not necessarily the most overbearingly complex while still having depth. You guys are essentially getting mad at people for wanting Langston Hughes instead of some verbose old english poem.

I'm a big Lu fan, but you have to be a specific type of person to think this is on par with FL and The Cool.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

I've listened to this album all the way through twice. I just can't get into it. I love the production, and i like the lyrivs, but I feel like I have to go on a lyric site just to break down his meaning between songs. I don't think good songwriting has to be conplicated. While I like lupe, I think he gets too caught up in trying to be brilliant. He relies on obscure extendedicated metaphors too. Don't get me wrong I loved f and l and the cool, but they were easier to digest. Just seems like he's trying harder and harder to make his music enigmatic. I like riddles, but If it takes me like 5 times just to get it, then just give up on it. Lots of ppl on here are saying it's a classic, but what exactly makes this a classic?

I don't think music HAS TO be too cryptic and "over-thought" to be good music. However, I don't see the problem with having much that way either. Hell, there's an overabundance of bare bones, straight to the bone, non-thoughtful, or even outright dumbed down music out there and there's hardly a balance between the two differing types, especially in the limelight. So let em cook. If you don't vibe with it like that, you're not forced to do so, I'm sure.

 

[hex]

U make a valid point. I'm basically saying that all those artists u named have bars that might go over some people's heads to if they don't catch the references and or meanings.

Its cool u don't like the album. U don't wanna decode it or figure it out no prob breh. But I respect Lupe for doing something different. That goes to show this album is unique. No one can duplicate it. That's what I respect it's something New. I respect our golden era and all but we'll never move forward if we constantly compare the past to the present.

Edit

I forgot to ask do u like lyricist lounge artists? I would say whats wrong with "lyrical miracle spirtual breh" If it wasn't for Dr. Dre Eminem would be that strugging artist now. Just because he might be on Rawkus and not with the big leagues you'll look down in him? Those artists may not have had the big labels help push u to like their sound but lyrically some of them were just as good as the golden era artists.

And my point was I'd rather have a artist go over my head than to hear the simplistic stuff of today. I wasnt comparing Lupe to those artists. But I would say like I said before those artists said shyt that wasn't as simplistic. They just made it digestible for the average listener. Some of them wanted to sell records and have respect from the streets. Lupe just made a album that can be decoded. Were also in a completely different era of creativity. I think that some ill shyt just my opinion.

I love hip-hop as a whole....I was listening to Aesop Rock right along side Jay-Z's "Where I'm From". I copped "Appleseed" off Aesop personally, before anybody even knew who he was. As far as Em I had "5 Star Generals" too on wax. Fondle 'Em, Rawkus, MUSH, Solesides, Stones Throw....I got/had all kinds of underground shyt on wax.

We can talk about this kind of rap all day.

But people need perspective....in another thread somebody said if this album came out in '94, it would be lauded as the most important hip-hop album of all time....because back then people appreciated lyrics. Which is because if you look at what was actually hot in '94....or '88....or '98....this type of rap had a very very small fan base. So people sitting around patting themselves on the back for liking this, like "yeah look at us, we're supporting REAL HIP-HOP" is as hell.

Fred.

 

[hex]

So you're saying lupe is on some weird worded sounding bars this album? Since you ment it uncomplimentary.

Traditionally nothing now "sounds" like it did when people where doing boom bap production...I haven't seen anyone say he's "bringing back lyricism" tbh, but I haven't read the thread in its entirety.

What is really puzzling is to say, "hip hop wasn't like that" then compare him to artists who rapped like that back then, traditionally.

None of the artists who rapped like this were very popular is my point....so it's bizarre to see fans catch feelings over people criticizing this album. If you were listening to BONE, Nas, Outkast, or whatever....and then somebody came up talking about Siah and Yeshua, or Rubberoom....that guy for better or worse is going to be the odd man out.

And yes, people were saying this album would be considered the GOAT and all kinds of wild shyt if it were to come out in the 90's....which is the crux of my beef with over rating this album, and the type of rap it is. This type of rap has always had a niche fan base, that's it.

Fred.

 

[Khalil's_Black_Excellence]

Lupe stans feel entirely different about this album from the people that are objective fans. I guess that makes sense since Lupe stated he made this album for his hardcore fanbase. But because of that I think they tend to overrate the album. Like most I enjoy it, but think its an overly complicated album for no reason.

That's weird cuz while I've liked Lupe for a minute, I was never a hardcore fan of him. Initially, I didn't even like him much when he first came on the scene. shyt, I wasn't even aware of the depth of the Michael Young History shyt from his past albums like that. But I believe I'm liking this album better than all his previous ones just cuz it's so consistent all throughout. I agree with him (Lupe) stating that it's his least flawed album. Pretty much everything is just solid and works all throughout the album IMO. Beats, rhymes, lyrics, concepts and overall delivery on all fronts. Even the mixing/mastering is beyond on-point as every song sounds really crisp, smooth and audible no matter how I listen to it (earphones/buds, speakers, ride, etc.) or at what volume. The latter, I can't say for most albums out there, quality on other points or otherwise.

 

[GoldenGlove]

None of the artists who rapped like this were very popular is my point....so it's bizarre to see fans catch feelings over people criticizing this album. If you were listening to BONE, Nas, Outkast, or whatever....and then somebody came up talking about Siah and Yeshua, or Rubberoom....that guy for better or worse is going to be the odd man out.

And yes, people were saying this album would be considered the GOAT and all kinds of wild shyt if it were to come out in the 90's....which is the crux of my beef with over rating this album, and the type of rap it is. This type of rap has always had a niche fan base, that's it.

Fred.

Where is this coming from? I'm not thinking about some 90s shyt when I listen to this album at all. I've been all in the Official Thread, and I don't see anybody in there saying some shyt like "If this came out in the 90s..."

You're making shyt up.

 

[Abstract83]

I love hip-hop as a whole....I was listening to Aesop Rock right along side Jay-Z's "Where I'm From". I copped "Appleseed" off Aesop personally, before anybody even knew who he was. As far as Em I had "5 Star Generals" too on wax. Fondle 'Em, Rawkus, MUSH, Solesides, Stones Throw....I got/had all kinds of underground shyt on wax.

We can talk about this kind of rap all day.

But people need perspective....in another thread somebody said if this album came out in '94, it would be lauded as the most important hip-hop album of all time....because back then people appreciated lyrics. Which is because if you look at what was actually hot in '94....or '88....or '98....this type of rap had a very very small fan base. So people sitting around patting themselves on the back for liking this, like "yeah look at us, we're supporting REAL HIP-HOP" is as hell.

Fred.

My bad I thought u were bashing the underground scene. I agree with u Lupe would be considered underground in those era's. If u read my post I never compared this album to the golden era. I said the past 7yrs. Comparing it to the soulja boy era up to now. I try not to touch the golden era at all. My whole argument is about now and the future of rap. I'm happy this album got released on a mainstream platform. Hopefully it'll help change the radio format. I doubt it though.

 

[Dirty_Jerz]

None of the artists who rapped like this were very popular is my point....so it's bizarre to see fans catch feelings over people criticizing this album. If you were listening to BONE, Nas, Outkast, or whatever....and then somebody came up talking about Siah and Yeshua, or Rubberoom....that guy for better or worse is going to be the odd man out.

And yes, people were saying this album would be considered the GOAT and all kinds of wild shyt if it were to come out in the 90's....which is the crux of my beef with over rating this album, and the type of rap it is. This type of rap has always had a niche fan base, that's it.

Fred.

What? In that case your point would be moot. You cannot say hip hop didn't sound like that just because it wasn't as popular, when hip hop culture itself is very inclusive to various styles. Also, I find it hard to believe you would exclude outkast as "puzzle rap" when one of the duo is highly regarded as having such a style. It doesn't seem like people really have too much of an issue with others criticizing the album...the biggest qualm seems to be when someone cites 1-2 bars out of the whole project to say, "it's wack".

@GoldenGlove seems to think you're lying though...got some quotes?