Even the DWAR doesnt make sense...Bautista is not a liability defensively,and hes got the best arm in RF in all of baseball...
Makes no sense why hes a negative DWAR...
The 2014 MLB Random Thoughts Thread
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Even the DWAR doesnt make sense...Bautista is not a liability defensively,and hes got the best arm in RF in all of baseball...
Makes no sense why hes a negative DWAR...
yseJ
Empire strikes back
Im not an expert on defensive WAR at all (hence me summoning HHR), but your analysis is waaay too simplistic
IM sure it is,but im going on what im seeing...i dont see analytics when im watching defense,i see him do his job throw runners out,make routine catches,not cost his team runs...
yseJ
Empire strikes back
fair enough, I can see what youre saying
Advanced defensive metrics are and will probably always be less exact than their offensive counterparts. I've been saying for awhile that all dWAR stats should be regressed towards 0 because of this.
The biggest issue, imo, is that it's prone to extreme fluctuations that aren't necessarily reflective of what's actually happening on the field. That said, when a player's dWAR is consistently elite or subpar, I believe there is something to it.
It's interesting you guys are bringing this up though because it's been a recurring discussion on "baseball Twitter" recently after Jon Heyman began taking shots at WAR because of how highly it rates Alex Gordon. It seems many leaders in the public analytic community are sort of leaning towards dWAR need to be regressed too.
With the Alex Gordon example, dWAR says he's been TWICE as valuable as he ever has been before...and he's always been good.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5209&position=3B/OF
Looking at his dWAR stats (DEF), it tells me he is an excellent defender who saves several runs a season in LF...but that his 2014 is an anomaly.
Heyward, while a little higher than usual, is pretty clearly a dominant defensive player. I don't have a problem with anyone saying he's worth a full win in the field. Stanton may not have earned his -1.7 this season, but he's probably a little worse than average defensively.
Take shots at WAR all you want, but there are exactly ZERO people using it to suggest that Heyward has been as good as Stanton this year.
The biggest issue, imo, is that it's prone to extreme fluctuations that aren't necessarily reflective of what's actually happening on the field. That said, when a player's dWAR is consistently elite or subpar, I believe there is something to it.
It's interesting you guys are bringing this up though because it's been a recurring discussion on "baseball Twitter" recently after Jon Heyman began taking shots at WAR because of how highly it rates Alex Gordon. It seems many leaders in the public analytic community are sort of leaning towards dWAR need to be regressed too.
With the Alex Gordon example, dWAR says he's been TWICE as valuable as he ever has been before...and he's always been good.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5209&position=3B/OF
Looking at his dWAR stats (DEF), it tells me he is an excellent defender who saves several runs a season in LF...but that his 2014 is an anomaly.
Heyward, while a little higher than usual, is pretty clearly a dominant defensive player. I don't have a problem with anyone saying he's worth a full win in the field. Stanton may not have earned his -1.7 this season, but he's probably a little worse than average defensively.
Take shots at WAR all you want, but there are exactly ZERO people using it to suggest that Heyward has been as good as Stanton this year.
The War Report
NewNewYork
What does the arm have to do with covering ground?
The difference between an elite defender and an average/poor defender isn't just making routine catches and not VISIBLY costing his team runs. It's RANGE. It's how many balls they get to....both in and out of their zone. It's not as easy as watching them play because we can't really SEE range. That's where those numbers are valuable.
He doesnt have to cover as much ground because of his arm...He prevents people from taking chances on base...
god shamgod
Veteran
Javier Baez wit the towering bomb 
The War Report
NewNewYork
That makes no fukking sense.
The War Report
NewNewYork
Enjoy Dan Uggla.Javier Baez wit the towering bomb
I dont get how that dont make sense,he dont have great foot speed in the OF but i rarely see him make mistakes,alot of assists,he doesnt make mistakes or miss many balls...I dont see where the negative figure comes from...youre now focused on something else.
This is dumb. His arm doesn't make up for range when he's letting liners and flyballs fall in for hits...